Cards meeting today (3/19) in OK with Murray

Solar7

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He split time at A&M with another freshman 5 star qb. They split starts and split quarters in the game. He played one year as a true freshman , in the SEC. Thats not a full seasons worth of stats. BOTH of those freshman QBs who started, transferred at the end of the year. I'm not concerned that he went 5 tds 7 ints as a true freshman, in the SEC , in limited playing time, for one year. He transferred and had to sit a year due to transfer years...and he had to watch while Baker had one of the best seasons in college football history. So yes...Baker started the next year too. Not going to hold his limited playing time as a true freshman against him.

I will say this- I heard that if Baker had not performed how he did the previous year....and and they were both clean slates with no prior of knowledge of success/failure...that Kyler would have won that job. But thats not how it went down, and they weren't going to bench Baker after the season he had.
Valid enough points.

Like I said, you haven't been here long enough for me to loop you in with the other arguments, but a lot of what we hear on the board mostly focuses on the idea that Murray just can't fail. I struggle to accept that from a guy with one year of evidence, scary/untested measurables, and an unclear personality.
 

GatorAZ

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There are plenty of athletes that have god given talent that will be drafted high, doesn't mean that I can't question some of their mental make up or decision making.

A red flag for me is he gains 20 lbs and then won't run the 40. How many draftee's. top ten or not refuse to run the 40? Either he is hiding something or thinks he is special, either way I don't like it and I'm guessing decision makers in the NFL have concerns as well.

Plenty of fantastic talents that have flamed out because they don't have the right mental make up. Murray has some red flags based on his decisions during the draft process. He may prove to be the exception to the rule but he may not.

Teams care more about the hits he can endure than the difference between 4.35 and 4.47. You can tell he’s definitely been adding significant bulk.

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JosiahLee

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- Highest reward
Sure, not gonna argue there. Any QB is the highest potential reward though. But also, generally, the highest risk. You simply can't give up on Murray next year, no matter how awful he might be.

- Too short
College kids with his kind of athletic ability aren't forced to stay in their lane/the pocket like NFL players are. I know there's changes in the wind, but guys like Brees and Wilson have to compensate for their height by being extraordinarily smart players.

- A&M
You're just not going to win me with the "didn't even win the open competition for starting QB because Sumlin was a mess, and that's why he threw 5 TDs to 7 INTs and transferred to be the backup to a walk-on" talk. Not sure what else to say here.

- Him vs. Rosen
I don't know. Rosen is of course a question mark, but it's just as relevant as asking "Does Ryan Fitzpatrick give you a better chance to win than Rosen?" He might, in the moment. But ending things with Rosen means accepting we wasted three draft picks for what is likely to be a marginal return, and puts us firmly out of the discussion for more tantalizing and consistent players in the coming years, like Tua and Lawrence.

And all of that is ignoring that if Murray flops, we're going to be out a General Manager, trying to find someone to take over a roster with two of the riskiest choices at HC and QB in the history of the NFL.

I just have to point of a few things:

-Technically the Cards gave up 2 picks for Rosen, not 3.

-There’s no way the Cards will be in discussion for Tua next year or Lawrence in 2 years unless they finish dead last again and get the #1 pick, which is highly unlikely.
 

Solar7

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I just have to point of a few things:

-Technically the Cards gave up 2 picks for Rosen, not 3.

-There’s no way the Cards will be in discussion for Tua next year or Lawrence in 2 years unless they finish dead last again and get the #1 pick, which is highly unlikely.

- If you bench Rosen and don't trade him, that's three picks not producing on the field. Until he's traded, I'm going to count it as three picks.

- "No way?" Dude, we're talking about bringing in a fired coach from a mid-size college program who is running a gimmick offense with a 5'10 at best QB, stacked on top of years of consecutive poor drafting. I'm excited about KK, but to pretend things can't get worse is pretty much just reliant on the Giants or Dolphins.
 

NashDishesDimes

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Actually it’s a 100% legitimate concern considering he only committed to football barely more then 3 weeks ago. You dismissing it as garbage is absolutely ludicrous... At the first sign of any struggles the kid has an automatic out and he very likely could take it.

+1, not to mention guy cant compose a sentence
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Ok, I've been holding this back. But, since many have hinted on Murray's concerns, I thought I'd share what was said by the people I met out with last week that have interviewed and scouted Murray. These aren't direct quotes but me paraphrasing.

First, the positives. He seems like a good kid, obviously a high level athlete and very productive. Nice arm and throwing motion.

The not so positive:

They really question Murray's football intelligence and motivation. He's not going to be the guy first in and last to leave. They think he'll lack motivation because he has baseball to fall back on if he fails. Can grab the big money bonus guaranteed by being a high draft pick and go back to baseball, that's his favorite sport no matter what he says publicly, in 4-5 years if things don't work. He's not a Russell Wilson type personality/leader. In fact, 2 very scary names thrown out as comparisons, personality-wise, were Vince Young and Jamarcus Russell.

Those things may never come into play and he'll be a success, but they are certainly concerns at this point. That and he's 5'10 and a 1 year starter.


To be fair, last year on Rosen(going from memory):
Positives: best passer in the draft.
Negatives: a complete douche of a person.
 

Krangodnzr

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Ok, I've been holding this back. But, since many have hinted on Murray's concerns, I thought I'd share what was said by the people I met out with last week that have interviewed and scouted Murray. These aren't direct quotes but me paraphrasing.

First, the positives. He seems like a good kid, obviously a high level athlete and very productive. Nice arm and throwing motion.

The not so positive:

They really question Murray's football intelligence and motivation. He's not going to be the guy first in and last to leave. They think he'll lack motivation because he has baseball to fall back on if he fails. Can grab the big money bonus guaranteed by being a high draft pick and go back to baseball, that's his favorite sport no matter what he says publicly, in 4-5 years if things don't work. He's not a Russell Wilson type personality/leader. In fact, 2 very scary names thrown out as comparisons, personality-wise, were Vince Young and Jamarcus Russell.

Those things may never come into play and he'll be a success, but they are certainly concerns at this point. That and he's 5'10 and a 1 year starter.


To be fair, last year on Rosen(going from memory):
Positives: best passer in the draft.
Negatives: a complete douche of a person.

He's giving back his signing bonus.

And if he goes back to baseball he starts at the bottom (Single A).

He can make more money at football.

Everything I've heard about him from people who know him say he's a really good kid, parents raised him right.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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He's giving back his signing bonus.

And if he goes back to baseball he starts at the bottom (Single A).

He can make more money at football.

Everything I've heard about him from people who know him say he's a really good kid, parents raised him right.
He wouldn't be giving back his football signing bonus, which dwarfs his baseball bonus, of which he'd likely get another one to return, and he may start out in A ball but he'll be fast-tracked. All you need to do is look at Tim Tebow, with no baseball pedigree, and how he's been moving through the Mets system. Murray is much better at baseball than Tebow.

In theory, he could get his football money, which is much greater, and arrive in the big leagues at approximately the same time with a smaller baseball bonus but he's still way ahead. I'm not saying that's definitely the case, but it's out there.

Plus, I agree, if he's successful, he'll make more money at football. We were talking about if he doesn't have success early on in his career.
 

Krangodnzr

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He wouldn't be giving back his football signing bonus, which dwarfs his baseball bonus, of which he'd likely get another one to return, and he may start out in A ball but he'll be fast-tracked. All you need to do is look at Tim Tebow, with no baseball pedigree, and how he's been moving through the Mets system. Murray is much better at baseball than Tebow.

In theory, he could get his football money, which is much greater, and arrive in the big leagues at approximately the same time with a smaller baseball bonus but he's still way ahead. I'm not saying that's definitely the case, but it's out there.

Plus, I agree, if he's successful, he'll make more money at football. We were talking about if he doesn't have success early on in his career.

$5 million?!?

As the number one pick he'll get more guaranteed.

Minor league players dont make much...the smart play is to exhaust football and then go for baseball if it doesn't work out.
 

GuernseyCard

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I've never posted the word midget. I just made a joke about your potential of being short. Sorry Dad.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

He says he's 6'3"

Yeah, right.

More likely a 4'3" loser of a dwarf tossing contest

(KM took top prize! - - - True, I tell you.)
 

Krangodnzr

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Sure financial protection but still a completely blown #1 pick if he did that which would set this team wayyyyy back... BIG PICTURE.

Ludicrous. Poorly thought out argument.

Walking away from football is walking away from a lot more guaranteed money initially.

Murray is a good baseball player, but to compare him to the top guys is ridiculous.

Baker Mayfield got $32 million guaranteed. Do you think $5 million is worth more than $32 million.
 

Krangodnzr

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He wouldn't be giving back his football signing bonus, which dwarfs his baseball bonus, of which he'd likely get another one to return, and he may start out in A ball but he'll be fast-tracked. All you need to do is look at Tim Tebow, with no baseball pedigree, and how he's been moving through the Mets system. Murray is much better at baseball than Tebow.

In theory, he could get his football money, which is much greater, and arrive in the big leagues at approximately the same time with a smaller baseball bonus but he's still way ahead. I'm not saying that's definitely the case, but it's out there.

Plus, I agree, if he's successful, he'll make more money at football. We were talking about if he doesn't have success early on in his career.

He would have to give back a good chunk of his signing bonus if he left. Its guaranteed, but not for leaving the sport.
 

Krangodnzr

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This should kill the ridiculous idea that Murray would leave football

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TheCardFan

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Deion Sanders played both.

It's not in a standard contract but a clause could be added if agreed on.

Understood and so did Bo Jackson but I don't expect to see that again. If you are going to throw 30m guaranteed at someone, I would think you would want exclusivity.

Who was the last person to play both at the same time (had to be many years ago)?
 
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