Woj: Suns in a state of disrepair.

[Chaplin]

What I am looking for is for people to perhaps wrap themselves a little less in their own opinions and try to be a little less personal with their comments along the way.

I don't think that is too much to ask.

By using the "nah nah boo boo - I was right, you were wrong" defense? Doesn't that seem counter-productive?

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Look where though? At the people who said that Sarver would force us to take Doncic because he flew to Europe to watch him before the draft or at the people who said he would make McD take Ayton because he was also a UofA alum?

Then there is this article that says Sarver fired McD for not acquiring an NBA starting PG during the preseason but there's also been those who claimed that Sarver overrode every attempt that McD made to get a PG, be it during the draft, by trade, or free agency.

Those are 2 big things that contradict each other but they're all claims of Sarver's meddling. When both sides say he's meddling to accomplish different goals it's easier to step back and ask for proof rather than continue to call for his head.

Yeah every time something new came out, you had an incomplete picture of the end goal. Ironically that is exactly what this article points to.

The owner is mercurial and runs his franchise to his whims. We are trying to figure out what other NBA owners can't figure out.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

By using the "nah nah boo boo - I was right, you were wrong" defense? Doesn't that seem counter-productive?

Chap, your anger here at me is misguided.

Be upset at the ownership. Be upset at the situation.

If you feel you are part of the issue of getting too personal and dismissing others opinions, then how you react to that I cannot control or encourage.

 

[Chaplin]

Chap, your anger here at me is misguided.

Be upset at the ownership. Be upset at the situation.

If you feel you are part of the issue of getting too personal and dismissing others opinions, then how you react to that I cannot control or encourage.

Wait a minute. You are taking the high road here, which is fine. But you can't take the high road while turning around and being condescending with half the board (or whatever) for not agreeing with you last year.

Just want to understand, not angry, really. I was one of those that probably disagreed with you at the time. The fact is, nobody here is satisfied with Sarver and I would guess 100% of us want him gone. But there was very little to support your theory at the time, and many of us voiced that. You disagreed. Now that there is some fire to support your position from months ago, I'm saying it isn't good form to basically be upset at us because we didn't believe you back then (when you had very little evidence to support your claim).

 

[1tinsoldier]

By using the "nah nah boo boo - I was right, you were wrong" defense? Doesn't that seem counter-productive?

nothing we say here is productive
we're not legislators, or even PTA board members
we're just guys talking about guys who put a ball through a basket
so i say, when the time comes to gloat about something you called right
go for it!

 

[Chaplin]

nothing we say here is productive
we're not legislators, or even PTA board members
we're just guys talking about guys who put a ball through a basket
so i say, when the time comes to gloat about something you called right
go for it!

Yeah, that's mature.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Wait a minute. You are taking the high road here, which is fine. But you can't take the high road while turning around and being condescending with half the board (or whatever) for not agreeing with you last year.

Just want to understand, not angry, really. I was one of those that probably disagreed with you at the time. The fact is, nobody here is satisfied with Sarver and I would guess 100% of us want him gone. But there was very little to support your theory at the time, and many of us voiced that. You disagreed. Now that there is some fire to support your position from months ago, I'm saying it isn't good form to basically be upset at us because we didn't believe you back then (when you had very little evidence to support your claim).

It is not my intent to be condescending. If I have come off that way, I apologize.

 

[WildBB]

Why wasn't the Phiily owner lambasted before their success the same way? I mean they were tanking on purpose and all time bad. Now that org. is genius because they're positioned now to be a legit powerhouse with out player manipulation. Which is really behind the NBA's demise right now. Players jumping around wherever with a few manipulating the flow.
Don't understand how now Sarvers the only problem with players not coming here.
I think some players around the NBA may be pushing for a change in Phx. ownership at present. But Phx. is pretty much copying Philly's early blueprint. Only way to compete for this franchise is through the DRAFT. Maybe that's troubling but that's the way it is.

 

[Chaplin]

It is not my intent to be condescending. If I have come off that way, I apologize.

No need to apologize -- it just seemed odd for you to approach it that way.

 

[Folster]

How does the recent fan and pundit criticism of Sarver affect the rest of the minority owners of the Suns?

Financially the Suns franchise has increased in value approximately 275% since his ownership groups assumed control from $401m in 2004 to $1.5b today.

How incredible is that? Maybe that's all they care about.

 

[Chaplin]

How does the recent fan and pundit criticism of Sarver affect the rest of the minority owners of the Suns?

Financially the Suns franchise has increased in value approximately 275% since his ownership groups assumed control from $401m in 2004 to $1.5b today.

How incredible is that? Maybe that's all they care about.

Of course that's all they care about. Too bad they don't realize the better team we are, the faster that value increases...

 

[Folster]

Of course that's all they care about. Too bad they don't realize the better team we are, the faster that value increases...

I was curious to see what the market returned in that same time period. Amazingly the S&P 500 has had a total return(dividends reinvested) of 236% from July of 2004 to today.

275% with a ton more risk doesn't sound so impressive.

Crazy!

 

[Hoop Head]

Why wasn't the Phiily owner lambasted before their success the same way? I mean they were tanking on purpose and all time bad. Now that org. is genius because they're positioned now to be a legit powerhouse with out player manipulation. Which is really behind the NBA's demise right now. Players jumping around wherever with a few manipulating the flow.
Don't understand how now Sarvers the only problem with players not coming here.
I think some players around the NBA may be pushing for a change in Phx. ownership at present. But Phx. is pretty much copying Philly's early blueprint. Only way to compete for this franchise is through the DRAFT. Maybe that's troubling but that's the way it is.

The situations are different. Philly admitted they sucked and openly tried to lose in order to win in the lottery and draft. The Suns didn't come out and say they were purposely losing until the end of the 2016-17 season when they sat Bledsoe, Chandler, and Knight to tank at the end. Then during the offseason things were built back up and tanking wasn't discussed until Bledsoe was traded and even then it was spun carefully to look like Bledsoe gave them no choice but to do suck for another year.

Suns management hasn't been open and honest with the public during this stretch of awfulness. Even when they did admit they weren't trying to win games they stopped short of claiming they were tanking for the lottery and never said that was the only way to improve.

Philly being open about it is what allowed the league office to step in because you can't have 29 teams competing while 1 decides they want to lose. That throws everything out of whack. Silver couldn't sit back and allow a team to stop competing at all. He knows tanking happens and the Sixers didn't start that trend but no one was ever as open and truthful about it to the public until Hinkie admitted as much in Philly.

Since it was only Philly's GM openly gloating about tanking, and he did gloat more than discuss or pitch it, the owner was not viewed as an accessory of sorts. He allowed the league to send in the Colangelo's while he stayed out of it because he let his basketball people do their job. The league might have done more to punish them had the owner been as public about tanking as Hinkie was. Since he did what everyone wants their owner to do, sit back and allow the basketball people that he hired do their job without interference, it was tough to fault him.

 

[BC867]

That is an ugly piece....Stuff like this is going to make attracting FA really tough.

NBA people already know that Phoenix is not desirable for free agents.

Word spreads from ex-Sun executives and players.

I am so glad that this has finally gone public ! ! ! Maybe now the disrespect of the public will be directed where it belongs, rather than to the team and its fans.

Hopefully it reaches Commissioner Silver to the point where his easiest path would be to involve the NBA.

The most important consideration now is . . . where do we go from here?

 

[Hoop Head]

How does the recent fan and pundit criticism of Sarver affect the rest of the minority owners of the Suns?

Financially the Suns franchise has increased in value approximately 275% since his ownership groups assumed control from $401m in 2004 to $1.5b today.

How incredible is that? Maybe that's all they care about.

I think the pundits need to start calling out the minority owners and asking why they continue to allow Sarver to run amuck. It does no good to call on the league to do something because the league does not save owners from themselves. Sarver can be overruled by the other owners since he only has like a 30% share of the team.

I don't think the national media will do that until the local media does and I can't see Gambo or any of the others going that way anytime soon. Apparently Gambo has already tried refuting that latest ESPN piece. At least that's what I saw on Twitter. I have no desire to turn on his show to hear that today but I'll catch the podcast version when it's posted because they break things up on there so you can listen to only the Suns talk.

Some proof that's what Gambo is doing...

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[Cheesebeef]

so, here's my question... I feel like anyone who was looking at our situation without rose-colored glasses knew for a very looking time that Sarver was a complete and utter disaster... is this really that big of news? Wonder if there were some machiavellian moves behind the scenes from the league to push this narrative out and get it fully into the open as a way to pretty much SHAME him into changing.

 

[Folster]

One thing that is interesting is that Sarver has gone into hiding aside from the stadium vote. He won't do any interviews or anything.

Has he been sitting courtside at games or is he up in a box now?

 

[SirStefan32]

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So, it sounds like Gentry talking. One "weasel" is Hunter. Second one probably Watson. Interesting stuff.

 

[1Sun]

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So, it sounds like Gentry talking. One "weasel" is Hunter. Second one probably Watson. Interesting stuff.

Second one absolutely was Watson, who promised to deliver LaMarcus Aldridge.

 

[95pro]

Gambadoro doing damage control or what? what are his sources?

 

[SirStefan32]

Gambadoro doing damage control or what? what are his sources?

Grant Hill, Alvin Gentry Jay Triano, etc.

 

[Mainstreet]

Seems like you had a different take on him than I did. If he knew what he was doing then he would have made sure either he or Jones reached out to other GM's like the article mentioned. Bukstein may handle a lot of in house Suns stuff but I didn't get the idea either were very good GM's from that article, quite the opposite. I've given Jones credit when it's been due and held off on bashing him for other things but if even half of that article is legit then he's got to go. I know Sarver can't come out and say Jones and Bukstein aren't in consideration for the GM job or the president of BB operation role, whichever they go with, but they really can't keep doing what they're doing and expect to turn things around. Jones came across more as a coach/agent than a GM based on that article. I think he can be kept within the team if we hire someone else as sort of a player liaison like he was but that's it.

I was giving Bukstein credit for knowing how everything works as an organization... sort of like an engineer of day to day operations.

As I view it, Jones would be lost in this technical aspects of running the Suns.

 

[Phrazbit]

Gambo can shove it.

Where there is smoke there is fire and this is an inferno. If there are coaches and players who want to contradict this report then it shouldn't be tough to get them to do so on the record.

 

[Proximo]

Well, I don't think ESPN is writing this kind of article without permission from the NBA.

The question is what does the NBA hope to achieve with this? Does this mean they actually think Sarver can be made to sell, or is this just to shame him into getting an experienced GM to run things?

 

[1Sun]

Well, I don't think ESPN is writing this kind of article without permission from the NBA.

The question is what does the NBA hope to achieve with this? Does this mean they actually think Sarver can be made to sell, or is this just to shame him into getting an experienced GM to run things?

My guess is the latter. In the meantime, it just pulled up as the lead story at espn.com.