Woj: Suns in a state of disrepair.

[1Sun]

Kemba will be an unrestricted free agent so a sign and trade is unlikely.

The Suns would have to cut salary to go after him. It would be risky.

I think Warren, Johnson and Okobo or Melton could work in a sign-and-trade scenario. Just saying.

 

[Hoop Head]

Kemba will be an unrestricted free agent so a sign and trade is unlikely.

The Suns would have to cut salary to go after him. It would be risky.

If we make a move for Kemba we do it on day 1 and worry about the financials later. We can get him to agree to come here and then have a week to unload salary to make room. We wouldn't be the first or last team to do that during free agency. We did the same thing with Aldridge a few summers back but of course he left us standing there looking like fools having given away a couple of decent players for nothing. I don't blame him for that though. McD shouldn't have had a deal completed unless we actually needed the cap space. At least work something out so we didn't need to give up everything like we did if things fell through.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Kemba will be an unrestricted free agent so a sign and trade is unlikely.

The Suns would have to cut salary to go after him. It would be risky.

Isn't a sign and trade a better outcome for Charlotte if it was an option? We'd have to give up draft picks, a young player or two and salaries to match.

Would Charlotte be enticed to something like 2 first round picks, TJ warren, Jackson, Tyler Johnson for Kemba? They'd probably want to unload one more salary but I'm not sure if you can combine salaries in sign and trades.

 

[Mainstreet]

If we make a move for Kemba we do it on day 1 and worry about the financials later. We can get him to agree to come here and then have a week to unload salary to make room. We wouldn't be the first or last team to do that during free agency. We did the same thing with Aldridge a few summers back but of course he left us standing there looking like fools having given away a couple of decent players for nothing. I don't blame him for that though. McD shouldn't have had a deal completed unless we actually needed the cap space. At least work something out so we didn't need to give up everything like we did if things fell through.

The reason I called it risky is because the Suns cannot count on Walker signing with them in free agency like the example you used in Aldridge.

I like Walker but hope the Suns do not target a player they are unlikely to sign and miss out on other options.

 

[Mainstreet]

Isn't a sign and trade a better outcome for Charlotte if it was an option? We'd have to give up draft picks, a young player or two and salaries to match.

Would Charlotte be enticed to something like 2 first round picks, TJ warren, Jackson, Tyler Johnson for Kemba? They'd probably want to unload one more salary but I'm not sure if you can combine salaries in sign and trades.

If Walker was a restricted free agenct the Hornets would be wise to trade him but this is not an option based on what I know. He will become a free agent without restrictions.

 

[Suns_fan69]

If Walker was a restricted free agenct the Hornets would be wise to trade him but this is not an option based on what I know. He will become a free agent without restrictions.

As far as I can tell this isn't correct, but I'm terrible at interpreting these: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q92

 

[Mainstreet]

As far as I can tell this isn't correct, but I'm terrible at interpreting these: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q92

It sounds like this could be true if Walker agrees to it but I'm not sure why he would unless he wants to come to the Suns or another team that doesn't have salary space.

I think we saw a case of the above when Nash signed with the Lakers.

 

[Mainstreet]

Nash is probably not the best example because no other players were traded.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/8130840/steve-nash-headed-los-angeles-lakers-sign-trade-deal

 

[Hoop Head]

The reason I called it risky is because the Suns cannot count on Walker signing with them in free agency like the example you used in Aldridge.

I like Walker but hope the Suns do not target a player they are unlikely to sign and miss out on other options.

We can't count on anyone signing with us. We need to make a play for someone. If Kemba says no then we gave it a shot but we don't lose anything by making the pitch. I don't see the risk that you do. It's not like we need to approach our own free agents right as the clock strikes midnight and turns to July 1st. Kemba either says yes or no, if he says yes then we need to work on clearing cap space to make it happen when teams can sign players on the 7th but if he says no we move on down the list. We can also discuss a sign & trade with Charlotte if Kemba wants to come here rather than trying to unload salary elsewhere. Charlotte would then receive something in return for him if that happens.

I get that we shouldn't waste time on players we feel won't sign here but if we make a move for Kemba then I imagine it will have to do with him being willing to leave Charlotte and at least considering the Suns an option. We lose nothing by making a pitch to him, really. Every team chooses a target right when free agency opens to meet with as soon as possible, we can do worse than Kemba. We went after Ariza last offseason and that ended up being a bad move but part of the reason he decided to come here had to do with how we treated him like a star by approaching him right away, like how teams typically approach All-Stars.

 

[SirStefan32]

Interesting! I did not even think about the sign and trade route with unrestricted free agents.

 

[Hoop Head]

Isn't a sign and trade a better outcome for Charlotte if it was an option? We'd have to give up draft picks, a young player or two and salaries to match.

Would Charlotte be enticed to something like 2 first round picks, TJ warren, Jackson, Tyler Johnson for Kemba? They'd probably want to unload one more salary but I'm not sure if you can combine salaries in sign and trades.

I don't believe they can add another player to a sign & trade. Kemba would need to agree to come here first and then we'd need to work with Charlotte for a way to make them happy if that's how we choose to bring him in. They have the option of getting something in return for him or letting him sign with us outright and getting nothing. Of course we'd need to clear some space to sign him outright but if we're willing to part with picks then we could make a deal with a team that has some cap space to take someone like Tyler Johnson or Warren for nothing but a strongly protected conditional 2nd round pick that isn't likely to convey and will expire soon so we can make it happen. They could send us a 2nd round pick top 55 protect and if it doesn't convey in 2020 then we get nothing, for example. The reason they do that is we can't make a trade for nothing in return so teams attach ridiculous 2nd round picks to deals like that so it would look weird to someone that doesn't know what we're doing but it's business as usual for the NBA. We'd trade something like the Bucks pick and Tyler for a 2nd round pick from Atlanta that only conveys in 2024 if it lands between 50 & 55, for example.

It may be easier to do a sign & trade with Charlotte because the can sign Kemba to trade him away immediately and they would receive a return for him. That could only happen if they're interested though.

 

[Raindog]

Yeah, I could just see the Suns offseason being dumping Warren, Jackson, Johnson, etc. for peanuts, and letting Oubre and Holmes walk in free agency to free up money to make Walker a gargantuan offer... just to watch him sign with the Lakers one day later for the same money.

It would be the most Suns thing ever.

 

[Hoop Head]

Interesting! I did not even think about the sign and trade route with unrestricted free agents.

It doesn't happen a lot anymore because the last CBA stopped players from getting the benefit of signing with the team who has their bird rights and that transferring in the trade with them. Before they could do a sign and trade for the higher annual raises, which are 7.5% instead of 5% (I believe), and also the extra year on their contract. Like we did a sign and trade sending Amare to New York so he could get that extra year. They had the cap space to absorb his deal so we didn't need to take anything back from them but it allowed Amare to make a little extra annually and also have that extra year on his deal. Now with sign and trades though the team trading him out that has the players bird rights can only sign them to the same sort of deals another team could so they don't get that extra or larger raises, which means players don't push for it like they did unless they want the team they're leaving to get something or the team acquiring them doesn't have the cap space to sign them outright. If they don't have the cap space then they need to include some salary to make it work. Who knows if Charlotte would even want any of what we'd be offering. If they don't then we need to find another team to unload some salary on.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yeah, I could just see the Suns offseason being dumping Warren, Jackson, Johnson, etc. for peanuts, and letting Oubre and Holmes walk in free agency to free up money to make Walker a gargantuan offer... just to watch him sign with the Lakers one day later for the same money.

It would be the most Suns thing ever.

That's why it's wise not to make anything official until everything can be completed. I know the team taking on Warren, Johnson, etc might be upset if something changed but surely they'd realize what happened. Perhaps we send them something to say we're sorry for wasting their time if it feel apart. I'm sure deals fall apart all the time though and no compensation is sent along. Maybe that team doesn't want to deal with us later because of that. GM's aren't around that long anyway so it's not like it would hurt for that long.

That is almost what happened when we tried to get Aldridge though. We send Bullock and Marcus Morris to Detroit for cap space and then we didn't sign Aldridge. It was a mistake to make that deal since we could have received something for them otherwise but IIRC when that went down we did it early to show Aldridge how serious and committed we were, which was stupid. Rookie move on McD's part. He should have waited and let Detroit know that we're only doing it if Aldridge signs here. Of course then we're tying up their cap space and making them pause things but that is why teams will offer something else if it falls apart as a "sorry for wasting your time" sort of an apology, like we could have decided to only send Bullock if things didn't pan out.

Bullock and Marcus really turned into quality players there. They turned Marcus into Avery Bradley who they used to get Blake later. Bullock is still there and I believe he's their starting SF. They made out quite well.

 

[Mainstreet]

Another thing to consider, while the Suns chase who they want in free agency, other teams will be chasing the other team's players during the moratorium period.

Luckily Oubre is a RFA so the Suns can match and keep him. The Suns might be susceptible to losing Holmes to a better offer though.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That's why it's wise not to make anything official until everything can be completed. I know the team taking on Warren, Johnson, etc might be upset if something changed but surely they'd realize what happened. Perhaps we send them something to say we're sorry for wasting their time if it feel apart. I'm sure deals fall apart all the time though and no compensation is sent along. Maybe that team doesn't want to deal with us later because of that. GM's aren't around that long anyway so it's not like it would hurt for that long.

That is almost what happened when we tried to get Aldridge though. We send Bullock and Marcus Morris to Detroit for cap space and then we didn't sign Aldridge. It was a mistake to make that deal since we could have received something for them otherwise but IIRC when that went down we did it early to show Aldridge how serious and committed we were, which was stupid. Rookie move on McD's part. He should have waited and let Detroit know that we're only doing it if Aldridge signs here. Of course then we're tying up their cap space and making them pause things but that is why teams will offer something else if it falls apart as a "sorry for wasting your time" sort of an apology, like we could have decided to only send Bullock if things didn't pan out.

Bullock and Marcus really turned into quality players there. They turned Marcus into Avery Bradley who they used to get Blake later. Bullock is still there and I believe he's their starting SF. They made out quite well.

Bullock is a Laker.

 

[Hoop Head]

Bullock is a Laker.

I did not know that. Apparently he was traded from Detroit at the deadline this year for Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk and a 2nd round pick. Who knows how you pronounce that name. Looks like alphabet soup got spilled and that's what was left before it got cleaned up.

 

[Muggz]

Woj shines a light on the franchise's dysfunction.

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We're a joke.

Sorry for the resurrection.
We've come a long way in 2 years fellas.
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