Suns fire McD

[Hoop Head]

I agree with most of this. I don't think he knee-jerked into a trade for Knight though. I think he genuinely thought Knight would be very good.

He bought on Knight at his highest value though. Perhaps he would improve but having to work with a third team like the Sixers to make that work complicated things. We gave up the Lakers pick so they would send MCW to Milwaukee. Philly had McD's number, honestly. That is proof of it. Look at the deals he did with them, they managed to squeeze quality picks out of him at every turn.

 

[JCSunsfan]

He bought on Knight at his highest value though. Perhaps he would improve but having to work with a third team like the Sixers to make that work complicated things. We gave up the Lakers pick so they would send MCW to Milwaukee. Philly had McD's number, honestly. That is proof of it. Look at the deals he did with them, they managed to squeeze quality picks out of him at every turn.

McD had picks to burn. We have too many young players on our roster already. He had to trade some of those picks for players, or consolidate them into better picks. He did not do it well though. That I freely admit. But when you have lots of picks, other teams hold out for them.

 

[Hoop Head]

McD had picks to burn. We have too many young players on our roster already. He had to trade some of those picks for players, or consolidate them into better picks. He did not do it well though. That I freely admit. But when you have lots of picks, other teams hold out for them.

I get that, especially with the Bridges trade. I don't like it but it is the truth. With Knight though the cost was relatively low. We had to give up the Lakers pick but not to Milwaukee, they wanted MCW, and we threw in Plumlee and Ennis. When you can get a player for MCW and Ennis, you need to seriously wonder why his team wants him gone. McD wasn't fleecing a bad owner or management team there, he was getting fleeced. Philly pulled a fast one by making MCW look better than he was but I think most of us would have been ok bringing him back without the need to sign him to the extension Knight got. If he doesn't work out, at least we're not capped out. Hindsight is 20/20, of course, and I've tried to see all sides to the Knight trade but I feel stupid for ever thinking it was even an ok deal when you consider his contract was coming up. Yes, he was restricted but that was the only year he played like a big money player and he didn't play up to that level in Phoenix either. In Phoenix he was in street clothes and injured, which sums up his whole time here really. I think Penny played more each year than Knight did as a Sun. He's got to be the player we've thrown the most money to be on the injured reserve, or the NBA equivalent of that.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

McD had picks to burn. We have too many young players on our roster already. He had to trade some of those picks for players, or consolidate them into better picks. He did not do it well though. That I freely admit. But when you have lots of picks, other teams hold out for them.

Plus McD was always at a disadvantage trying to deal disgruntled or players coming off injuries. Teams of strength will always take advantage of desperate GMs.

 

[pokerface]

Yeah that’s pretty damning. Six selections, three in the top 10, should propel a franchise forward. To net one still developing player from that is just piss poor.

Ok to all of that. But a lot of McD's moves were applauded at the time by media and fans alike. Knight seemed like a player on the rise...Chriss was viewed as athletic and Bender as skilled (for his age). His moves didn't seem stupid...mostly

 

[Mainstreet]

Ok to all of that. But a lot of McD's moves were applauded at the time by media and fans alike. Knight seemed like a player on the rise...Chriss was viewed as athletic and Bender as skilled (for his age). His moves didn't seem stupid...mostly

This is all true but GMs have access to more knowledge, the input of scouts and are paid to make better decisions than fans and media.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Can we not make comments like both JJ and Tatum have completed their development. You simply can't make anywhere near a final judgement on a player after 1-2 seasons in the league. Let's see where they both are at the end of their rookie contracts and then we can make final judgments on who we should have been targeting. Also keep in mind that Tatum couldn't have gone to a better situation and JJ couldn't have gone to a much worse one either.

 

[Hoop Head]

Can we not make comments like both JJ and Tatum have completed their development. You simply can't make anywhere near a final judgement on a player after 1-2 seasons in the league. Let's see where they both are at the end of their rookie contracts and then we can make final judgments on who we should have been targeting. Also keep in mind that Tatum couldn't have gone to a better situation and JJ couldn't have gone to a much worse one either.

I would add that Tatum could not have been picked by us. Boston picked before we did and most were dejected when we fell to 4 in the lottery because it looked like we would need to "settle" for Tatum as Fultz, Ball, and Jackson were viewed as the top 3 by almost everyone here, at least the majority of people bummed we landed at #4.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ok to all of that. But a lot of McD's moves were applauded at the time by media and fans alike. Knight seemed like a player on the rise...Chriss was viewed as athletic and Bender as skilled (for his age). His moves didn't seem stupid...mostly

But, as I’ve said before, a GM is paid to be smarter than fans and journalists otherwise we could all be good GMs. No fans were excited about Nash (everyone wanted John Wallace), majerle (everyone wanted anyone but this kid from central Michigan) or Marion (everyone wanted machete) but our gm was smarter than the pundits and fans. See how that works?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Cheers to Michael Bidwill. He met with Patrick Peterson, patched up the differences, and righted the ship--at least that's what it looks like for now.

This is probably what McD should have done with Bledsoe. Even if he did not believe he was posting about the hair salon, he could have just said "Eric gave us an explanation and we are going to give him the benefit of the doubt." If they wanted to then work behind the scenes for a trade, they could have.

Live life and learn.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Cheers to Michael Bidwill. He met with Patrick Peterson, patched up the differences, and righted the ship--at least that's what it looks like for now.

This is probably what McD should have done with Bledsoe. Even if he did not believe he was posting about the hair salon, he could have just said "Eric gave us an explanation and we are going to give him the benefit of the doubt." If they wanted to then work behind the scenes for a trade, they could have.

Live life and learn.

78 points. In three games. Supposedly our best player. That's how many points our opponents outscored us by while Bledsoe was on the court prior to the coach being fired and prior to his absurd salon comments. Eric was sabotaging us out there, playing at half speed and sulking. Sulking because he and his agent had demanded a new contract and we wouldn't play ball. Good riddance.

IMO, if Ryan erred, it's in passing up earlier trade opportunities (IF he passed), not in calling him out. It's one of the few times I think he opened his mouth and said the right thing.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I would add that Tatum could not have been picked by us. Boston picked before we did and most were dejected when we fell to 4 in the lottery because it looked like we would need to "settle" for Tatum as Fultz, Ball, and Jackson were viewed as the top 3 by almost everyone here, at least the majority of people bummed we landed at #4.

This is ignoring reports that McD convinced JJ to cancel his workout with the Celtics prior to the draft. Had that workout happened he may well have been picked by the Celtics and Tatum may well be on the Suns right now. Thus there is a strong possibility that McD actually chose JJ over Tatum and not us just having to take the leftovers.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is ignoring reports that McD convinced JJ to cancel his workout with the Celtics prior to the draft. Had that workout happened he may well have been picked by the Celtics and Tatum may well be on the Suns right now. Thus there is a strong possibility that McD actually chose JJ over Tatum and not us just having to take the leftovers.

Ryan gloated (I guess, friendly taunting would be more accurate) over that maneuver but I doubt it mattered much to Danny. I thought Tatum was the clear cut choice and unless there was something about Tatum's personality that turned him off, I'm confident that Ainge got the player he wanted (at 1, even). But your point that Ryan might have chosen JJ with a clear field to choose from is valid IMO.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Ryan gloated (I guess, friendly taunting would be more accurate) over that maneuver but I doubt it mattered much to Danny. I thought Tatum was the clear cut choice and unless there was something about Tatum's personality that turned him off, I'm confident that Ainge got the player he wanted (at 1, even). But your point that Ryan might have chosen JJ with a clear field to choose from is valid IMO.

Not sure he was a clear cut choice. I know myself and many others (fans and experts alike) had JJ ahead of Tatum prior to the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if the Celtics were on the fence between the two, but the choice was made for them when Jackson canceled his workout.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not sure he was a clear cut choice. I know myself and many others (fans and experts alike) had JJ ahead of Tatum prior to the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if the Celtics were on the fence between the two, but the choice was made for them when Jackson canceled his workout.

I said "I thought", meaning to me, not everyone. Sorry for the confusion. But I also remember reading Boston forums and he seemed to be the clear cut favorite there too although I might have just focused on the posters that felt as I did. But regardless, if he hadn't been the number one choice for Ainge, I can't see Danny just hanging his head and ignoring the guy he wanted because the kid's agent and Ryan pulled a fast one. A short workout shouldn't have made that much difference considering the pile of information they already had available.

 

[Hoop Head]

Tatum was viewed as an immediate contributor rather than a project like JJ. In addition to that I think JJ and Jaylen Brown are a bit redundant while Tatum is quite different from Brown. Tatum is much more like Hayward but with the draft happening before free agency that didn't factor into their decision, at least I don't think it did. Stevens was Hayward's college coach so I would think they had more insight if they could snag him away from Utah than any other suitor. I would think Stevens signed off on Tatum also. Boston had a good amount of young talent then but none like Tatum that were strong offensive players. Smart, Brown, Rozier, Avery Bradley, and Jae Crowder were all defensive players first and the only offensive threat they had at the time was IT, who had his hip issues, and replacing his scoring was more than likely a priority for Boston.

 

[JCSunsfan]

78 points. In three games. Supposedly our best player. That's how many points our opponents outscored us by while Bledsoe was on the court prior to the coach being fired and prior to his absurd salon comments. Eric was sabotaging us out there, playing at half speed and sulking. Sulking because he and his agent had demanded a new contract and we wouldn't play ball. Good riddance.

IMO, if Ryan erred, it's in passing up earlier trade opportunities (IF he passed), not in calling him out. It's one of the few times I think he opened his mouth and said the right thing.

Regardless of missed previous opportunities, he should have figured out how to settle things down with Bledsoe at the time of the tweet.

 

[Yuma]

I liked Bledsoe, but our whole offense was 4 guys standing around watching him play offense. I used to yell at the TV that the four other guys need to MOVE! No one would get open for Bledsoe to pass to. While I like him, I just didn't see our team developing very far with him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

So Gambo is saying that McD wanted to trade up for SGA, but he was overruled and they took Bridges instead.

He is also giving indication that the Crawford signing was against Igor’s wishes and that he wanted to keep Shaq.

So. Who is making these decisions? Is Sarver doing this?

 

[AzStevenCal]

So Gambo is saying that McD wanted to trade up for SGA, but he was overruled and they took Bridges instead.

He is also giving indication that the Crawford signing was against Igor’s wishes and that he wanted to keep Shaq.

So. Who is making these decisions? Is Sarver doing this?

No clue but it would seem like it has to either be James or Sarver and either way, we lose. And it's more than a little worrisome that Igor was in favor of keeping Harrison.

 

[Phrazbit]

I liked Bledsoe, but our whole offense was 4 guys standing around watching him play offense. I used to yell at the TV that the four other guys need to MOVE! No one would get open for Bledsoe to pass to. While I like him, I just didn't see our team developing very far with him.

I'm going to say something that will be very unpopular with Bledsoe's detractors... followed by something I think they will agree with immensely.

Bledsoe was the best player the Suns had in the post Nash and pre-Booker era. He is one of the best defensive guards in the league (I know a few people here try to deny it but the stats profoundly back it up) and he was a solid point guard in almost every respect and really good in others. The other great thing about him is that he didn't care about who got to shoot, he wasn't out there playing hero ball. He gladly defaulted to the hot hand, he was fine with letting Dragic or Thomas get their burn in running the point, his assists are down with the Bucks but it's because he's fine letting the offense flow through Giannis. I think he'd be a fantastic player in Igor's offense.

However...

Bledsoe's biggest problem is he was a quitter. The guy was a freaking animal in close games, he would make plays, especially on defense, that were astonishing for a guy his size... but... when we would fall behind, not even bad margins, like 10-15 points, numbers than NBA games swing by constantly, Bledsoe's effort would vanish. An early deficit meant Bledsoe put it in cruise control. And you can't have your leader be a quitter. That is a problem that will plague him no matter how good of a team he is on unless he gets with some true Alpha player who gets in his face and keeps him from slouching, and it definitely makes him a crappy player to be "the man" on a young, inconsistent team.

 

[slinslin]

PG is not necessarily even the biggest need of this team.

Booker is averaging 28 and 7. The Booker running the offense thing is working fine, Harden has high turnover games in between as well.

The problem is that Booker is our only quality guard on the roster.

And Josh Jackson continues to make stupid plays, Canaan is a negative too.

I don't get why Canaan is starting, they would be better off starting Bridges, Crawford or Jackson in place of Canaan.

 

[Phrazbit]

PG is not necessarily even the biggest need of this team.

Booker is averaging 28 and 7. The Booker running the offense thing is working fine, Harden has high turnover games in between as well.

The problem is that Booker is our only quality guard on the roster.

And Josh Jackson continues to make stupid plays, Canaan is a negative too.

I don't get why Canaan is starting, they would be better off starting Bridges, Crawford or Jackson in place of Canaan.

Depth is the biggest problem and while we have a general lack of depth, it's the worst at PG. Canaan has done a decent job of playing like an actual NBA player, but he shouldn't be a starter and the Suns really need to start giving all the backup SG minutes to Bridges.

 

[sunsfan88]

So Gambo is saying that McD wanted to trade up for SGA, but he was overruled and they took Bridges instead.

He is also giving indication that the Crawford signing was against Igor’s wishes and that he wanted to keep Shaq.

So. Who is making these decisions? Is Sarver doing this?

Yeesh....the Jamal Crawford signing has James Jones all over it. Even Jones was praising Crawford before even signing him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

PG is not necessarily even the biggest need of this team.

Booker is averaging 28 and 7. The Booker running the offense thing is working fine, Harden has high turnover games in between as well.

The problem is that Booker is our only quality guard on the roster.

And Josh Jackson continues to make stupid plays, Canaan is a negative too.

I don't get why Canaan is starting, they would be better off starting Bridges, Crawford or Jackson in place of Canaan.

This and lack of effort.