Giants not going QB @2

[moklerman]

Sure, but a disastrous amount of capital that would cripple the team for years to come.

Would it though? Look at the Rams and Eagles who both spent a ton to move up and get their guys. I don't think the Cardinals would have to spend any more than they did.

 

[Buckybird]

Sure, but a disastrous amount of capital that would cripple the team for years to come.

It crippled the Iggles so much that they just won a SB

It crippled the Lambs so much they just won 12 games & look to be near the top of the West for years to come

Identify your guy & get him! If he’s not on the board don’t make the deal.

It’s about picking the right guy! You can never be right if you’re afraid to be wrong.

 

[Buckybird]

Hope this is sarcasm but this is highly unlikely

If the Browns are dumb enough to pass on a QB & Darnold, I wouldn’t be that shocked if Keim made the blockbuster with the Gmen to take him.

I did hear Jurecki say last Sunday that the Cards really like Darnold, Mayfield & Allen.

 

[Solar7]

Would it though? Look at the Rams and Eagles who both spent a ton to move up and get their guys. I don't think the Cardinals would have to spend any more than they did.

The Jets just shipped three second rounders to move up three spots. The Bills need a QB more than we do, are closer than we are, and have an extra 1st, 2nd, and 3rd available in this year's draft. That's immediate return for a team to move back. We don't have that. We would have to give up multiple years' worth of top picks - we're talking like 1, 2, and 3, for three years.

The Eagles only moved up six spots, and while they gave up a 3rd and a 4th in '16, the 2017 pick they gave up was replaced by the Vikings' 1st round pick in trading away Bradford. Ultimately, all the Eagles gave up was a 3, 4, and a two that was two years down the line. It wasn't "a ton." And regardless of the move, the guy that won the Super Bowl for them was not the guy they traded for. I don't know why people keep glossing over the fact that Wentz hasn't even played in a playoff game yet, just presuming he was going to keep rolling and win the whole thing. But again, they didn't give up much. We're looking to sell years and years of draft picks for an unknown with a swiss cheese roster.

As for the Rams, yes, they gave up a ton, but the fallout of their decision is very much in flux. They had one good year. Are Cooper Kupp and Robert Woods a good enough receiving corps? What happens to Goff if Gurley is hurt and not accounting for 2,000 yards of offense? Plenty of questions still to come.

It crippled the Iggles so much that they just won a SB

It crippled the Lambs so much they just won 12 games & look to be near the top of the West for years to come

Identify your guy & get him! If he’s not on the board don’t make the deal.

It’s about picking the right guy! You can never be right if you’re afraid to be wrong.

See above. Wentz didn't win them any of the playoff games that took them to the Super Bowl.

 

[Buckybird]

See above. Wentz didn't win them any of the playoff games that took them to the Super Bowl.

Yeah that’s why teams are calling everyday to offer just one #1 for Foles lol.

Gimme a break, Wentz was/is/& will be a helluva better QB than Foles can only dream he would be.

 

[Solar7]

Yeah that’s why teams are calling everyday to offer just one #1 for Foles lol.

Gimme a break, Wentz was/is/& will be a helluva better QB than Foles can only dream he would be.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Wentz is bad. I'm just saying there's a lot of the guy's legacy left to be seen before we anoint him this unwavering success and proof that teams should discard years of top draft picks to take a stab at the second QB in the draft. The Eagles moved up and were ready to take either guy - had the Rams taken Wentz, would we be having the same conversation?

That's also disregarding his torn ACL (which includes a torn LCL, IT band, and meniscus damage), which may possibly have an effect on his ability to continuously succeed in the league. It took Carson Palmer four years to return to the playoffs after his similar injury, and his career never really resulted in the kind of success he seemed destined for.

The thing is, for the one Carson Wentz (who I'm not ready to call a success), we have a ton of flops. Outside of Joe Flacco, this is what we see:

The Broncos moved up to draft Jay Cutler in 2006 (No. 11), Tim Tebow in 2010 (No. 25) and Paxton Lynch in 2016 (No. 22). The Browns moved up for Brady Quinn in 2007 (No. 22) and Johnny Manziel in 2014 (No. 22).

The Jets traded to pick Mark Sanchez in 2009 (No. 5), and the Bucs Josh Freeman (No. 17). The Jaguars dealt to pick Blaine Gabbert in 2011 (No. 10), the Redskins Robert Griffin III in 2012 (No. 2) and the Vikings Teddy Bridgewater in 2014 (No. 32). (nj.com)

 

[GatorAZ]

Means Arizona should do whatever it takes to get to #2 to draft the Chosen one.

Adios DJ or PP

 

[HoodieBets]

Even if we trade this years entire draft and next years 1st it’s not enough to get to #2. The giants are dropping 13 spots in the draft, not happening. Also, we don’t have enough bodies on the roster. We have to use all our draft picks this year just to be able to fill it out cheaply.


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[cardpa]

I do not believe the Arizona Cardinals will be trading to move up in the draft. They will sit at 15 and make a selection there or possibly move down and get additional picks. I just don't see it happening.

 

[AZCB34]

Agreed.

I agree as well however I don't think there is even a remote chance Keim makes this move. I don't even think he moves up from where he is currently to any earlier spot. He will play it safe and let the draft come to him.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I do not believe the Arizona Cardinals will be trading to move up in the draft. They will sit at 15 and make a selection there or possibly move down and get additional picks. I just don't see it happening.

Have to agree with this

 

[GimmedaBall]

The Jets just shipped three second rounders to move up three spots. The Bills need a QB more than we do, are closer than we are, and have an extra 1st, 2nd, and 3rd available in this year's draft. That's immediate return for a team to move back. We don't have that. We would have to give up multiple years' worth of top picks - we're talking like 1, 2, and 3, for three years.

The Eagles only moved up six spots, and while they gave up a 3rd and a 4th in '16, the 2017 pick they gave up was replaced by the Vikings' 1st round pick in trading away Bradford. Ultimately, all the Eagles gave up was a 3, 4, and a two that was two years down the line. It wasn't "a ton." And regardless of the move, the guy that won the Super Bowl for them was not the guy they traded for. I don't know why people keep glossing over the fact that Wentz hasn't even played in a playoff game yet, just presuming he was going to keep rolling and win the whole thing. But again, they didn't give up much. We're looking to sell years and years of draft picks for an unknown with a swiss cheese roster.

As for the Rams, yes, they gave up a ton, but the fallout of their decision is very much in flux. They had one good year. Are Cooper Kupp and Robert Woods a good enough receiving corps? What happens to Goff if Gurley is hurt and not accounting for 2,000 yards of offense? Plenty of questions still to come.



See above. Wentz didn't win them any of the playoff games that took them to the Super Bowl.

Yes. Important to provide the cost for trading up and not just the fact that a team traded up. There will be a big difference for the Cards to trade to the top 4 of this draft from their #15 spot over trading up a few slots.

It is not going to be a simple draft pick value change--it is most likely going to be a bidding war. Other teams have some draft capital in this draft that is more valuable than the Cards (our 2 #3 picks get trumped by the Vikes 2 #1 picks). Current known slots are more valuable over future picks so the Cards will have to up the ante by including more future pick value. Cards don't have the poker hand to compete with a couple of other teams unless they want to pull out the credit card and make a really big withdrawal.

 

[az jam]

I can see the Cards moving up perhaps to get ahead of the Dolphins who pick #11 and may be interested in picking a qb there. It really depends on who the Cards like and if any fall. I just don't see the Cards giving up the farm to get into the top 4 slots. I would prefer they stay at #15 and have a solid draft filling in positions of needs.

 

[Cardsfanstl]

If the Browns are dumb enough to pass on a QB & Darnold, I wouldn’t be that shocked if Keim made the blockbuster with the Gmen to take him.

I did hear Jurecki say last Sunday that the Cards really like Darnold, Mayfield & Allen.

You may be right. I would be very surprised if the Cards did this.

 

[HoodieBets]

You may be right. I would be very surprised if the Cards did this.

Allen is perfect for BA, not so much for McCoy.


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[DevonCardsFan]

I do not believe the Arizona Cardinals will be trading to move up in the draft. They will sit at 15 and make a selection there or possibly move down and get additional picks. I just don't see it happening.

Exactly they have major holes to fill, sad part is Keim cant draft

 

[moklerman]

The point being made was that trading up would cripple a team and that's not really the case. It's expensive but there are various examples of teams trading a lot and still being able to function and win games.

 

[Solar7]

The point being made was that trading up would cripple a team and that's not really the case. It's expensive but there are various examples of teams trading a lot and still being able to function and win games.

Except short of the Rams last season, that hasn't proven to be true. And we'll see how it starts to affect them now that they haven't had years to draft top guys... if their depth will start bottoming out. The Redskins were really bad - and would have been worse, were it not for taking a flyer on Cousins.

We'll see how Mahomes pans out. We'll see if Watson returns to form and the Texans don't really miss one of the elite players that their team could really use right now (Barkley or Chubb). Mark Sanchez didn't work out. Neither did Blaine Gabbert. Both of those teams have been in a quagmire at QB since the pick - or at least had to invest another top 10 pick in a QB just years later.

We haven't given the past two years any time to shake out to see what's really going to happen to these teams without young, cheap players on the roster.

 

[moklerman]

Except short of the Rams last season, that hasn't proven to be true. And we'll see how it starts to affect them now that they haven't had years to draft top guys... if their depth will start bottoming out. The Redskins were really bad - and would have been worse, were it not for taking a flyer on Cousins.

We'll see how Mahomes pans out. We'll see if Watson returns to form and the Texans don't really miss one of the elite players that their team could really use right now (Barkley or Chubb). Mark Sanchez didn't work out. Neither did Blaine Gabbert. Both of those teams have been in a quagmire at QB since the pick - or at least had to invest another top 10 pick in a QB just years later.

We haven't given the past two years any time to shake out to see what's really going to happen to these teams without young, cheap players on the roster.

Not sure if we're talking about the same thing here. It's rare that a team cripples itself nowadays by trading multiple picks away. The Eagles, Vikings and Rams all recent examples of trading away early round picks for QB's and then turning around and making the playoffs. Even the Redskins and RGIII weren't cripple by their massive trade to the Rams.

With the Jets, I'm not sure we can say that it was trading away picks that has hampered them at the QB position. I agree that they haven't had stability at the position but I don't think that's because of a lack of draft picks. Two AFC Championships with Sanchez wasn't a total failure either.

I'm not saying that I think the Cardinals should trade a bounty to move up but I also don't think that, regardless of who they get, that it will set the team back for years.

 

[oaken1]

Even if we trade this years entire draft and next years 1st it’s not enough to get to #2. The giants are dropping 13 spots in the draft, not happening. Also, we don’t have enough bodies on the roster. We have to use all our draft picks this year just to be able to fill it out cheaply.


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not so. we can fill out the roster cheaply with vets if so inclined....a slew of $1mil contracts across the bottom of the roster...

only the top 51 salaries count against the cap.

 

[HoodieBets]

not so. we can fill out the roster cheaply with vets if so inclined....a slew of $1mil contracts across the bottom of the roster...

only the top 51 salaries count against the cap.

We need guys under control. We have no one on the roster next year. Rookies give us bodies for the next couple years all these vet minimums put us back in the same situation.


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[oaken1]

We need guys under control. We have no one on the roster next year. Rookies give us bodies for the next couple years all these vet minimums put us back in the same situation.


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the average NFL career is 3.5 years... guys on vet minimums have at least proven they can stick on a roster. Teams are always filled out with contracts like that, either young guys who have not quite hit their stride or older guys who can still be effective due to experience. Those types of contracts dont hurt the team and can be looked at year to year which allows for quick reactions if a player declines. You wont get much "elite" type play from them... but you wont get much elite play from players outside the top 10 in the draft either.
sure there are Honey Badgers and David Johnsons out there... mid round guys who really step it up... But there are also Dwight Freeney's out there...old guys who still produce... or guys like Bertrand Berry, who was a journeyman but signed with the Cards and stepped it up to pro bowl levels in the later years of his career.

there are lots of ways to build a strong roster. a smart team uses them all

 

[Solar7]

Not sure if we're talking about the same thing here. It's rare that a team cripples itself nowadays by trading multiple picks away. The Eagles, Vikings and Rams all recent examples of trading away early round picks for QB's and then turning around and making the playoffs. Even the Redskins and RGIII weren't cripple by their massive trade to the Rams.

With the Jets, I'm not sure we can say that it was trading away picks that has hampered them at the QB position. I agree that they haven't had stability at the position but I don't think that's because of a lack of draft picks. Two AFC Championships with Sanchez wasn't a total failure either.

I'm not saying that I think the Cardinals should trade a bounty to move up but I also don't think that, regardless of who they get, that it will set the team back for years.

The Redskins were pretty much crippled. It's the sheer luck that Cousins turned out to be really good that saved them. If they didn't have Cousins, they would have been picking in the bottom 10 for years. That roster was really, really bad.

I don't know what you're talking about with the Vikings, unless you're implying Bridgewater is anywhere near the point I'm trying to make about giving up the farm for a QB... the Vikes gave up a 4th round pick to move into the last pick of the first round. If you told me we were going to move from our pick in the 2nd round to the last pick of the 1st and even give up a 3rd, because we liked Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph, I'd do it in a flash. That's assets that we have in hand, and won't cripple us.

I already went over the Eagles in this thread or another thread. They re-secured a 1st round pick in trading Bradford, so they really only gave up a couple of mid to late round picks, and a 2nd that won't be used until this year. They didn't break the bank.

As for the Rams, we'll see how it goes. Yes, they had one good year. But in short order, it's going to come time to pay Gurley, that defense is going to have some interesting characters on it... and they won't have assets to build up young talent.

not so. we can fill out the roster cheaply with vets if so inclined....a slew of $1mil contracts across the bottom of the roster...

only the top 51 salaries count against the cap.

This thinking is how you miss out on the Tyrann Mathieus, David Johnsons, and Antonio Bryants of the world.

 

[oaken1]

The Redskins were pretty much crippled. It's the sheer luck that Cousins turned out to be really good that saved them. If they didn't have Cousins, they would have been picking in the bottom 10 for years. That roster was really, really bad.

I don't know what you're talking about with the Vikings, unless you're implying Bridgewater is anywhere near the point I'm trying to make about giving up the farm for a QB... the Vikes gave up a 4th round pick to move into the last pick of the first round. If you told me we were going to move from our pick in the 2nd round to the last pick of the 1st and even give up a 3rd, because we liked Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph, I'd do it in a flash. That's assets that we have in hand, and won't cripple us.

I already went over the Eagles in this thread or another thread. They re-secured a 1st round pick in trading Bradford, so they really only gave up a couple of mid to late round picks, and a 2nd that won't be used until this year. They didn't break the bank.

As for the Rams, we'll see how it goes. Yes, they had one good year. But in short order, it's going to come time to pay Gurley, that defense is going to have some interesting characters on it... and they won't have assets to build up young talent.


This thinking is how you miss out on the Tyrann Mathieus, David Johnsons, and Antonio Bryants of the world.

how is signing vets going to keep us from getting lucky in the mid rounds of the draft exactly?

 

[Harry]

I posted a month ago they would draft to support Eli! They like Barkley.