Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace 3D

[Covert Rain]

I know the SW story gets convoluted.. But I read somewhere(or maybe Yoda said it?) many years ago that there can only ever be two sith...one master, and one apprentice..
this was how anakin brought balance to the force like the prophecy said he would...
he killed off the Jedi so that Yoda and kenobi were the only ones left..

I'm sure there are always young wannabes and up and comers working and getting stronger... but I imagine the reigning sith apprentice just kills them off as they get strong enough to pose a threat.
That was an issue I had with the prequel trilogy, because they set up sith basically like the jedi..as an order with many sith lords..... I think it was based on the premise that evil does not share power.

According to one of my Star Wars encyclopedias the rule of two was created by Darth Bane. A master to embody the power and an apprentice to crave it. It was thought that after the Jedi wiped out the Sith this rule would keep them hidden in the shadows and ensure a clear succession of power since the Sith by nature could not trust one another.

It’s now canon that Sith Inquisitors can co-exist outside the two which are basically dark side trained force sensitives which have competed to become the next apprentice of a Sith Master. They were also used to help the Emperor and Vader hunt down the surviving Jedi that escaped after ROTS.

So there really was nothing stopping them from going down that path. It was a Sith imposed rule not something limited by the Force.

 

[oaken1]

According to one of my Star Wars encyclopedias the rule of two was created by Darth Bane. A master to embody the power and an apprentice to crave it. It was thought that after the Jedi wiped out the Sith this rule would keep them hidden in the shadows and ensure a clear succession of power since the Sith by nature could not trust one another.

It’s now canon that Sith Inquisitors can co-exist outside the two which are basically dark side trained force sensitives which have competed to become the next apprentice of a Sith Master. They were also used to help the Emperor and Vader hunt down the surviving Jedi that escaped after ROTS.

So there really was nothing stopping them from going down that path. It was a Sith imposed rule not something limited by the Force.

yeah I kinda figured it was a sith thing.......... I play SWTOR and damn...they have Darth this and Darth that everywhere in that game... I always thought "Darth" was a title reserved for the sith apprentice.

 

[Covert Rain]

yeah I kinda figured it was a sith thing.......... I play SWTOR and damn...they have Darth this and Darth that everywhere in that game... I always thought "Darth" was a title reserved for the sith apprentice.

That was pre-Bane and before the Jedi wipes them out. The Sith order once more closely resembled the Jedi order.

I would LOVE them to explore that era of both orders in movies. That would be awesome!

 

[Brian in Mesa]

You have lofty expectations. I have never gone into a Star Wars movie thinking that the dialogue will be so good it will be one of the actors best jobs. Dear Lord NOBODY thought that with Alec Guinness. Most people were wondering what the hell he was thinking. His oh I felt a disturbance in the force scenes in Star Wars was literally one of the worst scenes I have ever seen him in.

I know you are a bit younger, but you do realize that Sir Alec Guiness (already an Oscar winner (Best Actor 1957)) was nominated for Best Supporting Actor for his role as Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars, right?

 

[Stout]

I watched it again recently, and other than the jedi council, I pretty much disagree with you. Neeson and McGregor had a HORRIBLE script to work with, Darth Maul wasn't as bad ass as they wanted you to believe and the acting across the board, especially from Natalie Portman and Jake Lloyd is unbearable.

And I didn't even mention the racist character stereotypes with JarJar and the Federation.

My buddy asked his racist friend, and THAT guy even admitted that Jar Jar was an incredibly racist stereotype character.

 

[Covert Rain]

I know you are a bit younger, but you do realize that Sir Alec Guiness (already an Oscar winner (Best Actor 1957)) was nominated for Best Supporting Actor for his role as Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars, right?

I do but even Alex Guineas admits some of the scenes were garbage. Go back and watch that scene and tell me it wasn’t awful. That scene stood out so much they parodied that scene in Hardware Wars.

I never said Alex Guinness was awful actor in the movie. I just think that scene was a poor one by him probably because he had no clue what the hell was going on and Star Wars movie dialogue has never been it’s strength. In fact, I think it’s another case where an actor rose above the words on the page. To me when an actor does that it’s a testament to how good that actor is.

He is one of my favorites. The Bridge on the River Kwai is one of my favorite movies.

 

[Cheesebeef]

My buddy asked his racist friend, and THAT guy even admitted that Jar Jar was an incredibly racist stereotype character.

Usa say people going to die?

 

[Covert Rain]

My buddy asked his racist friend, and THAT guy even admitted that Jar Jar was an incredibly racist stereotype character.

I think that is the RESULT. However, I call B.S. it was intentional. I think sometimes how things are conceptualized and how they end up are two different things. It's nonsensical to think that George Lucas who is married to a black woman and writes a space saga about all kinds of races intentionally wrote those characters racist.

I especially feel bad for Ahmed Best who played Jar Jar. I saw an interview where he was truly broken up about how it played to fans. He said he never thought that fans would take it that way. He still doesn't feel that the character was intentionally written that way and to this day strongly believes that's not what the character is about.

 

[oaken1]

I think that is the RESULT. However, I call B.S. it was intentional. I think sometimes how things are conceptualized and how they end up are two different things. It's nonsensical to think that George Lucas who is married to a black woman and writes a space saga about all kinds of races intentionally wrote those characters racist.

I especially feel bad for Ahmed Best who played Jar Jar. I saw an interview where he was truly broken up about how it played to fans. He said he never thought that fans would take it that way. He still doesn't feel that the character was intentionally written that way and to this day strongly believes that's not what the character is about.

I dont see whats racist about a rastafarian screw up...

one might say the japanese looking trade federation guys were more "racist" than Jar Jar...they even had japanese accents..

in the end, I think when you are trying to depict an entire universe of diverse creatures it is only natural that similarities will arise. I challenge any individual to provide proof that gungans are not exactly like that...considering the scope of it all only the small minded would start crying racism when not just racial equality but equality of species is at the core of the entire universe.

 

[Stout]

I think that is the RESULT. However, I call B.S. it was intentional. I think sometimes how things are conceptualized and how they end up are two different things. It's nonsensical to think that George Lucas who is married to a black woman and writes a space saga about all kinds of races intentionally wrote those characters racist.

I especially feel bad for Ahmed Best who played Jar Jar. I saw an interview where he was truly broken up about how it played to fans. He said he never thought that fans would take it that way. He still doesn't feel that the character was intentionally written that way and to this day strongly believes that's not what the character is about.

I'm certain that's not how it was conceptualized, but once filming began, he had to be an idiot not to see it.

 

[Covert Rain]

in the end, I think when you are trying to depict an entire universe of diverse creatures it is only natural that similarities will arise. I challenge any individual to provide proof that gungans are not exactly like that...considering the scope of it all only the small minded would start crying racism when not just racial equality but equality of species is at the core of the entire universe.

This. Maybe he was oblivious and maybe he was trying to add earth like diversity through other characters. The idea that Lucas at anytime had racist intentions or thought what he was doing was racist is just dumb.

 

[cardncubfan]

Here I thought Jar Jar was just an alien species.

 

[Chaplin]

This. Maybe he was oblivious and maybe he was trying to add earth like diversity through other characters. The idea that Lucas at anytime had racist intentions or thought what he was doing was racist is just dumb.

Nobody accused him of intending to be racist. It may very well be unintentional, but especially the Federation was blatant anti-Asian, whether he meant it to be or not.

I personally find it cringe-worthy to watch because there is very little in the rest of the movie to make me forget it.

 

[oaken1]

Nobody accused him of intending to be racist. It may very well be unintentional, but especially the Federation was blatant anti-Asian, whether he meant it to be or not.

I personally find it cringe-worthy to watch because there is very little in the rest of the movie to make me forget it.

many of the similarities were somewhat intentional...ie...The evil empire employing "Storm Troopers" was a direct shot to the Nazi's in WW2... that was a discussion I saw on a talk show back in the seventies.
I dont see the federation as "anti" asian...if anything it just suggests "asians" become rich and powerful by controlling trade...seeing it as "anti" is a choice...it could also be seen as "pro" since they were smart enough to basically conquer the universe employing capitalism...thats pretty slick really.

One could claim the entire thing is "anti" white since both Palpetine and Anakin are white guys...why do the white guys have to be the evil ones??

oh but wait...they dressed Vader in Black when he became evil...oh damn,...so maybe they are saying BLACK is evil..

its all crap. People see what they want to see. Like any writer, Lucas wrote his stories and they have touches of the reality he grew up in...

the one constant was... while the big trade federation and the evil empire fight to control the galaxy...average people of all species suffer for it.

 

[Covert Rain]

many of the similarities were somewhat intentional...ie...The evil empire employing "Storm Troopers" was a direct shot to the Nazi's in WW2... that was a discussion I saw on a talk show back in the seventies.
I dont see the federation as "anti" asian...if anything it just suggests "asians" become rich and powerful by controlling trade...seeing it as "anti" is a choice...it could also be seen as "pro" since they were smart enough to basically conquer the universe employing capitalism...thats pretty slick really.

One could claim the entire thing is "anti" white since both Palpetine and Anakin are white guys...why do the white guys have to be the evil ones??

oh but wait...they dressed Vader in Black when he became evil...oh damn,...so maybe they are saying BLACK is evil..

its all crap. People see what they want to see. Like any writer, Lucas wrote his stories and they have touches of the reality he grew up in...

the one constant was... while the big trade federation and the evil empire fight to control the galaxy...average people of all species suffer for it.

I don’t know if I would say it’s anti-white since all the main heroes until Finn are white. However, the rest is what George has always done. He has introduced parallels to life within his universe.

 

[puckhead]

Here I thought Jar Jar was just an alien species.

 

[Chaplin]

The Nazi comparison is false equivialence because even though Nazis were white, that wasn't the focus. It's fine if you want to equate the Federation with China or the Gungans as Jamaicans, but you have to have a contrasting viewpoint--why are there no races that are Asian-looking/sounding that are "good" guys? Padme's chief of security was played by an African-American, but there was no way anybody was going to make that connection to JarJar. Besides, his terrible acting made you forget it anyway.

 

[puckhead]

Unrelated to this thread, but I died laughing:

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Nobody accused him of intending to be racist. It may very well be unintentional, but especially the Federation was blatant anti-Asian, whether he meant it to be or not.

I personally find it cringe-worthy to watch because there is very little in the rest of the movie to make me forget it.

I didn't take them to be Asian at all. I thought their speech was based on Transylvanian accents from old Dracula movies.

 

[Covert Rain]

I didn't take them to be Asian at all. I thought their speech was based on Transylvanian accents from old Dracula movies.

Which I think is the point of everything he did. Look at character X and draw a parallel to what we know. The idea that a guy built a diverse universe all of the sudden went all racist and is still married to his wife is just stupid.

 

[Chaplin]

Which I think is the point of everything he did. Look at character X and draw a parallel to what we know. The idea that a guy built a diverse universe all of the sudden went all racist and is still married to his wife is just stupid.

Excuse me, but nobody has said he "went all racist". There are stereotypes in Phantom Menace that are more egregious than what was in the original Star Wars. You have to be blind to not see it. It may not be intentional, but it's there.

 

[Covert Rain]

Excuse me, but nobody has said he "went all racist". There are stereotypes in Phantom Menace that are more egregious than what was in the original Star Wars. You have to be blind to not see it. It may not be intentional, but it's there.

I see them. However, IMO something went wrong from conceptualization to execution. I also get why some people find it offensive.

I don’t think for one second that Lucas intentionally meant for those characters to come off the way they did. That’s all.

 

[Chaplin]

I see them. However, IMO something went wrong from conceptualization to execution. I also get why some people find it offensive.

I don’t think for one second that Lucas intentionally meant for those characters to come off the way they did. That’s all.

I agree with you, so at least on that we're not arguing!

I think the main argument is that you think the prequels are better than I think they are.

 

[Covert Rain]

I agree with you, so at least on that we're not arguing!

I think the main argument is that you think the prequels are better than I think they are.

Ha! TPM sucks. I thought ATC was decent and I liked ROTS. None of them are better than RO or TFA and I am still conflicted about where this last one sits.

So not sure how far apart we are.

 

[cardncubfan]

Excuse me, but nobody has said he "went all racist". There are stereotypes in Phantom Menace that are more egregious than what was in the original Star Wars. You have to be blind to not see it. It may not be intentional, but it's there.

I guess I'm blind because I didn't see anything in any of the movies. I wasn't looking for anything either.