Which draft move was worse? 2 choices
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juza76
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wendel bryant and bryan johnson instead of terrel suggs.. the worst move ever
If those are my only two choices then I'd take Ogden for sure. Such a stud.
Adrian Peterson shouldn't even be a choice. Because I still think time will prove that Levi Brown was a better choice. Hate him all you want. Don't care. We went to a SB with Levi, went to the 2nd round of the playoffs the year after, he has experience. Peterson done nothing. Won some personal stats and titles but what have they done with him as a team? Nothing. Nada. Ziltch. Plus he got hurt last year with a significant knee injury. Plus RB's have a limited span of greatness and a totally limited span of usefulness. Their career is something like 5 years max, VS a tackle who will play 10+ years, maybe 15. I've said this before and I'll say it again, Levi's career will last 2 or 3 times that of AP's. Easy. AP hasn't won anything. Time will prove out that Levi was the better pick. Long after AP gone Levi will still be playing. He's about midway in his career, just about the time he should peak.
(In today's league, I'll take a LT over a RB any freaking day, all day. Careers last way longer and potential is way higher)
Adrian Peterson shouldn't even be a choice. Because I still think time will prove that Levi Brown was a better choice. Hate him all you want. Don't care. We went to a SB with Levi, went to the 2nd round of the playoffs the year after, he has experience. Peterson done nothing. Won some personal stats and titles but what have they done with him as a team? Nothing. Nada. Ziltch. Plus he got hurt last year with a significant knee injury. Plus RB's have a limited span of greatness and a totally limited span of usefulness. Their career is something like 5 years max, VS a tackle who will play 10+ years, maybe 15. I've said this before and I'll say it again, Levi's career will last 2 or 3 times that of AP's. Easy. AP hasn't won anything. Time will prove out that Levi was the better pick. Long after AP gone Levi will still be playing. He's about midway in his career, just about the time he should peak.
(In today's league, I'll take a LT over a RB any freaking day, all day. Careers last way longer and potential is way higher)
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Thanks. I just won $5 from my son. I bet him it wouldn't take an hour before somebody posted some other first round move as worse than those two even though I explicitly stated you only had two choices.
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If those are my only two choices then I'd take Ogden for sure. Such a stud.
Adrian Peterson shouldn't even be a choice. Because I still think time will prove that Levi Brown was a better choice. Hate him all you want. Don't care. We went to a SB with Levi, went to the 2nd round of the playoffs the year after, he has experience. Peterson done nothing. Won some personal stats and titles but what have they done with him as a team? Nothing. Nada. Ziltch. Plus he got hurt last year with a significant knee injury. Plus RB's have a limited span of greatness and a totally limited span of usefulness. Their career is something like 5 years max, VS a tackle who will play 10+ years, maybe 15. I've said this before and I'll say it again, Levi's career will last 2 or 3 times that of AP's. Easy. AP hasn't won anything. Time will prove out that Levi was the better pick. Long after AP gone Levi will still be playing. He's about midway in his career, just about the time he should peak.
(In today's league, I'll take a LT over a RB any freaking day, all day. Careers last way longer and potential is way higher)
The reason I picked those two was because 40 year brought up Simeon Rice which got me to thinking about how we passed on Ogden and that both Levi and Jonathan were Offensive Tackles.
One thing I keep asking people about AP being a Cardinal. How different would his career have been playing with Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin? Adrian Peterson with those guys instead of the rookies Hightower and Wells and the 30 year old James who was in his 10th season in the NFL? Think how that would change the 1st and 1 with 18 seconds left before the half against Pittsburgh. What is Harrison going to do with a young AP in the backfield and the Q in the slot?
But I'm with you on the Tackles being a strong consideration because you get a player that can produce for you for 10-15 years.
Ernie McMillan for instance played for the Cardinals from 1961 to 1974. Luis Sharpe for all his later troubles played for the Cards from 1982 to 1984. Ogden played for Baltimore from 1996 to 2007.
Ironically in 1993 the Cards passed on Willie Roaf, who the Sporting News had written had to be our #1 pick, for a running back. Garrison Hearst.
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kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Ogden, IIRC (and this might have just been Russ reporting rumors for all I know) told the Cards not to draft him; he'd never sign with us. If we were the team we are now, Simeon would have loved playing for us. I kind of feel the same way about Simeon as I do about Thomas Jones: the franchise failed both these guys.
Thomas Jones probably more so, because he was never given a chance to illustrate the player that he was, and dumb fans and coaches turned on him for worthless Marcel Shipp. But Simeon was one of the best defensive linemen in the NFL during his time here, but he never really got a chance to showcase his skills on a meaningful team because we sucked so bad. Once he moved on to Tampa Bay he was doing pre-game interviews with Michelle Tafoya.
Division Championships in 2008 and 2009, including a trip to the NFC Championship game in 2009. And he wasn't carried by a hall of fame quarterback continually being pounded into the turf.
DS, you sometimes have good stuff to add, but your crusade to prove that All Everything All Day Adrian Peterson is a lesser player than Levi Brown is absolutely silly.
Thomas Jones probably more so, because he was never given a chance to illustrate the player that he was, and dumb fans and coaches turned on him for worthless Marcel Shipp. But Simeon was one of the best defensive linemen in the NFL during his time here, but he never really got a chance to showcase his skills on a meaningful team because we sucked so bad. Once he moved on to Tampa Bay he was doing pre-game interviews with Michelle Tafoya.
If those are my only two choices then I'd take Ogden for sure. Such a stud.
Adrian Peterson shouldn't even be a choice. Because I still think time will prove that Levi Brown was a better choice. Hate him all you want. Don't care. We went to a SB with Levi, went to the 2nd round of the playoffs the year after, he has experience. Peterson done nothing. Won some personal stats and titles but what have they done with him as a team? Nothing. Nada. Ziltch. Plus he got hurt last year with a significant knee injury. Plus RB's have a limited span of greatness and a totally limited span of usefulness. Their career is something like 5 years max, VS a tackle who will play 10+ years, maybe 15. I've said this before and I'll say it again, Levi's career will last 2 or 3 times that of AP's. Easy. AP hasn't won anything. Time will prove out that Levi was the better pick. Long after AP gone Levi will still be playing. He's about midway in his career, just about the time he should peak.
(In today's league, I'll take a LT over a RB any freaking day, all day. Careers last way longer and potential is way higher)
Division Championships in 2008 and 2009, including a trip to the NFC Championship game in 2009. And he wasn't carried by a hall of fame quarterback continually being pounded into the turf.
DS, you sometimes have good stuff to add, but your crusade to prove that All Everything All Day Adrian Peterson is a lesser player than Levi Brown is absolutely silly.
kerouac9
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I wish I could give this post five stars. This might be the dumbest thing ever written on this message board. It's stupid for like five or six different reasons.
gmabel830
It's football season!!
This post is pretty bad, for all of the reasons you didn't mention, but the dumbest thing I've ever seen written on this board is that Roy Williams would be a better pro than Larry Fitzgerald. Just can't remember who posted it.
I respect your opinion dude. You have to realize, it's not like I'm saying AP sucks, or isn't the best back in the league, I don't feel like I should have to preface every post with that, but the fact is Levi is going to outlast him and I don't think you or anyone can grade him yet. At the midway point of his career, he should just now start hitting his prime, in my opinion, and he played well last year and I'm hoping plays well this year. And even better in years to come.
Please note, for future reference, I'm in no way, NO FREAKING WAY, saying Levi is a better player, or athlete or anything than AP, I'm simply saying he was a better pick for us than AP and that it wasn't a ripoff. For what we needed, and still need, Levi is a way better pick, FOR US. We are still hurting on the Oline. We're not hurting as much at RB, although some could argue. However, Levi will last WAY longer than AP will in his career, just way longer, there's no disputing that.
And I'm sorry, but Levi has been to more big games than AP, I don't even think that's disputable. We only had 2 good or decent years, but Levi had to plow through the playoffs in 08 through every round all the way to the SB. Next year into two rounds. That gives a player some experience. The SB alone gives Levi experience AP never had and probably will never see.
(Edit: And it's not a crusade man, it's simply pointing out facts when everyone else is pointing out fallacies. When you have a chance to draft a LT VS a RB you go LT and we made the right move. In today's league you go LT every day all day. RB only gonna last maybe 5 years. I said this last year BEFORE AP got hurt but his best years have been done. Now it's doubly true. He's on the downslope, and while he still may kick tail, Levi is on the upside of his career. Those are FACTS.)
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If I remember correctly Jones was hugely disappointed in being selected by Arizona and right away started hanging with David Boston who was reported to be a terrible influence on Jones. He was quoted as saying he and others at the NFL draft were kidding each other as to who would have the misfortune to have to go play for the Cardinals.
Did not know that about Ogden.
Again as for Darkside's take on Peterson we can't compare his career in Minnesota to Brown's in Arizona. We have to speculate as to what Peterson would have done in Arizona. I love history and talking about what might have happened if....so just imagine what could have happened if we had All Day as our #1 RB in 2008 and 2009.
I'm here to say we'd have a Lombardi Trophy on display at Warner and Hardy and maybe two. Taking Brown over AP was a horrendous decision.
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There's no way. You can't split the ball in 08 between Peterson and our 3 1000 yard receivers in Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston. I don't believe that. And even if you could, for the sake of argument, then you're probably losing more than we already lost, how do you sign: Fitz, Wilson, Dockett, Boldin, Peterson, Breaston, Rolle, Dansby, Dockett...and then Campbell? It can't be done. I think it's a fallacy to think we win a SB with the addition of Peterson, when team chemistry is so huge and contracts are looming in the air. There's just no way. And for the sake of argument, I think even had we signed Peterson we'd lose either him or Fitz and who do you keep, and I think losing either of those players along with Boldin, Dansby and Rolle...I just think you lose an influx of players and then people are saying the same old Cardinals. We could never have signed all those players to stay.
Dayman
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This one seems pretty obvious to me. Rice had over 50 sacks in his five years with the Cards, including a Cardinal record 16.5 in '99. He wasn't on Ogden's level, but that's still very productive. Levi is, well, Levi.
On a similar note, how do the Redskins slide for passing on Peterson for Landry? They had already invested a lot in Portis (who was hurt for half of the previous season). We had already invested a lot in Edge. It seems like a similar situation. Plus, Landry turned out to be as big of a bust as Levi, if not a bigger bust.
On a similar note, how do the Redskins slide for passing on Peterson for Landry? They had already invested a lot in Portis (who was hurt for half of the previous season). We had already invested a lot in Edge. It seems like a similar situation. Plus, Landry turned out to be as big of a bust as Levi, if not a bigger bust.
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Every thing you've said is incorrect. The Cards biggest problem in 2008 and 2009 was running the clock once they got the lead. With All Day that's not a problem. Warner, Fitz, Boldin, and AP equals Aikman, Smith, Irvin and Harper. Nobody could have stopped our offense. We'd have thrown over them in the first half and crushed them with Peterson in the 2nd half.
In the snow in New England? Instead of giving up after 3 minutes we could have pounded them with AP and instead of getting humiliated we might even have won the game.
We win the SB because with AP in the backfield Harrison isn't dropping back into the passing lane and intercepting the pass intended for Boldin because he has to worry about All Day getting the carry instead. Peterson's yards come from Breaston's. How great has Breaston been since? Nothing but mediocre. The only reason Breaston got 1000 yards was because Hightower was running for 2.8 yards per carry. With AP on the team we beat Green Bay 38-17.
Who cares who you lose in 2011 to the salary cap when you've won a Super Bowl in 2008 and either won again in 2009 or had a classic contest against the eventual champion Saints instead of getting your head beat in. Nobody says same old Cardinals with a Lombardi Trophy sitting in Michael Bidwill's office. We lost most of our players anyway and we're still here talking about how we have a good chance to win the Division just 18 months removed from one of the worst seasons in Cardinals history.
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How old was Portis? Edge was 29 and almost ready for the stud farm. In fact he was gone after the 2008 season.
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Oh My God! I just thought of something. What if we do take Peterson instead of Brown. CKW puts in the smash mouth offense with AP carrying the ball 25-30 times a game and Leinart doing his thing checking down and managing the game and Matt never breaks his collar bone and Warner never comes in to run the hurry up offense or to sub for Leinart?
Phrazbit
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I know what you're trying to say, but by that logic we should have been drafting a LT almost every season after Levi didnt pan out at the level the Cards hoped.
Put AP on the team with Warner and Larry and it may have been one of the greatest offenses in NFL history. Even if you want to focus on pass blocking, I think the addition of a extremely powerful running threat would do more to keep a pass rusher honest than a mediocre, at best, OT. AP could retire tomorrow and would still probably be a hall of famer. While up until this point in his career Levi has been a replacement level player, granted his career is not over yet but I cannot imagine this team not having gained a lot more victories by virtue of having AP around.
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Phrazbit
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Oh My God! I just thought of something. What if we do take Peterson instead of Brown. CKW puts in the smash mouth offense with AP carrying the ball 25-30 times a game and Leinart doing his thing checking down and managing the game and Matt never breaks his collar bone and Warner never comes in to run the hurry up offense or to sub for Leinart?
Nah, Whiz loathed Leinart enough to replace him with the worst QB ever born of man. I dont think AP being around would have saved Leinart's job.
Garthshort
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Darkside makes some good points about Levi. My point is that at the SB Levi was a RT, and is probably pretty good on the right side. He's struggled on the left side, though seemed to play well during the second half of last year. His play this year will be a big factor on how we finish. JMO.
JeffGollin
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There are two ways to interpret "Worst" Draft Move:
1. Poorest move strategically.
2. Poorest move in terms of outcome.
Strategically, the decision to draft Levi over AP was supposed to have incorporated a risk-component (i.e. Peterson's supposed brittleness).
The decision to not draft Ogden (according to the late George Young) had more to do with Mr. B's biased impression of Jonathon's high school program (As Young explained it, the two of them were sitting around making small-talk prior to that year's draft, and Young - always looking for an info edge - brought up Ogden's name. Mr. B said something about "Didn't he go to St. John's Academy (or whatever the name of the school was)? "When Mr. B brought that up", according to George, "I knew he was going to pick Rice over Ogden.")
Based on that, I think the reasoned-decision to draft Levi over Peterson was sounder than the snap-decision to pass on Ogden.
But in terms of outcome, I think we got more from Simeon in his brief stay with us than we've gotten from Levi so far. (I also feel the impact of not being super-secure at LT hurt the franchise more than losing a pass rusher).
1. Poorest move strategically.
2. Poorest move in terms of outcome.
Strategically, the decision to draft Levi over AP was supposed to have incorporated a risk-component (i.e. Peterson's supposed brittleness).
The decision to not draft Ogden (according to the late George Young) had more to do with Mr. B's biased impression of Jonathon's high school program (As Young explained it, the two of them were sitting around making small-talk prior to that year's draft, and Young - always looking for an info edge - brought up Ogden's name. Mr. B said something about "Didn't he go to St. John's Academy (or whatever the name of the school was)? "When Mr. B brought that up", according to George, "I knew he was going to pick Rice over Ogden.")
Based on that, I think the reasoned-decision to draft Levi over Peterson was sounder than the snap-decision to pass on Ogden.
But in terms of outcome, I think we got more from Simeon in his brief stay with us than we've gotten from Levi so far. (I also feel the impact of not being super-secure at LT hurt the franchise more than losing a pass rusher).
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THESMEL
Smushdown! Take it like a fan!
Your choices suck, enjoy your 5 bucks from your son. Because any fan worth a squirt of pee would not put these picks "worse" Your son really made that bet?
I've been a supporter of Smushdown Levi Brown since well before he was drafted, I liked him more than AP and Joe Thomas, I've explained why many times. Whisenhunt called more run plays over the previous 5 years than any other OC. We hired Whiz as to play balanced, smart, tough and diciplined football and reduced the mistakes Denny's teams blew them selves up with. That was the Cardinals intentions in print and heart.
Leinart went down, after splitting plays with Warner , and they were the only 2 qb's that rookie HC kept! Tim and Tim off the couch to save the day! Warner hung tough with a cast on his arm as we threw more than any team in history, last in rush attempts and yardage for the next 5 years. ( makes me want to retire early under contract too)
That is why I call him Whisenstupid, I know it''s harsh, I know he has had more success than other Cards coaches, I like him BUT DON'T TRUST him. From the last RS game to the SB in 08 - Edge started and we were a balanced offense, easily walking through great teams to the SB- where we called 10 total runs and collapsed like we did while passing 70% of the time in the 2nd half of the 08 season.
I'm a daisy for mentiononing it, Whiz has not got the stones to watch the SB game, He should watch it and the 09 Saints game with us the fans at UP stadium. He does not acknowldge what i just wrote, except by signing Levi long term against the winds of experts.
The Play calling improved last year, after trying to force feed DA, Hall, Skelton and Bartell 2/3rds passing in 2010. they are not Kurt Warner and are never gonna be Kurt Warner and would never survive the GSOT, few can. Whiz is the one on the hotseat this year. He is running low on Denny's talent and has fallen and can't get up.
Cody Brown is the biggest miss recently, Levi Brown was a home run
I've been a supporter of Smushdown Levi Brown since well before he was drafted, I liked him more than AP and Joe Thomas, I've explained why many times. Whisenhunt called more run plays over the previous 5 years than any other OC. We hired Whiz as to play balanced, smart, tough and diciplined football and reduced the mistakes Denny's teams blew them selves up with. That was the Cardinals intentions in print and heart.
Leinart went down, after splitting plays with Warner , and they were the only 2 qb's that rookie HC kept! Tim and Tim off the couch to save the day! Warner hung tough with a cast on his arm as we threw more than any team in history, last in rush attempts and yardage for the next 5 years. ( makes me want to retire early under contract too)
That is why I call him Whisenstupid, I know it''s harsh, I know he has had more success than other Cards coaches, I like him BUT DON'T TRUST him. From the last RS game to the SB in 08 - Edge started and we were a balanced offense, easily walking through great teams to the SB- where we called 10 total runs and collapsed like we did while passing 70% of the time in the 2nd half of the 08 season.
I'm a daisy for mentiononing it, Whiz has not got the stones to watch the SB game, He should watch it and the 09 Saints game with us the fans at UP stadium. He does not acknowldge what i just wrote, except by signing Levi long term against the winds of experts.
The Play calling improved last year, after trying to force feed DA, Hall, Skelton and Bartell 2/3rds passing in 2010. they are not Kurt Warner and are never gonna be Kurt Warner and would never survive the GSOT, few can. Whiz is the one on the hotseat this year. He is running low on Denny's talent and has fallen and can't get up.
Cody Brown is the biggest miss recently, Levi Brown was a home run
Mrospi
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Sorry, if not corrected already... It was Calvin Pace & Bryant Johnson instead of Terrell Suggs.... and yes an awful move
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I thought the criticism of the juza76 post was a bit harsh but I give points for intent.
IMO, a more interesting subtopic would be who should the Cardinals have drafted at #17 and #18 in the 2003 draft since the trade was made.
A link to the draft results for the 2003 is listed below.
http://football.about.com/od/nfldrafthistory/l/bl_2003nfldraft.htm
THESMEL
Smushdown! Take it like a fan!
well
I don't see it as that bad, cause we were in the 4-3 at the time and Suggs was a tweener - I like Suggs but the Ravens gave up alot with the 2 picks, Pace was very good and BJ had great potential, He averaged 40+ catches a year as a deep as a 6'3" deep threat.
Pace-BJ-Q was a good draft, IMO
It is easy to say he would have improved Horton's 3-4 defense , but that was not the case at the time.
Bryant was a straight up bust!
I don't see it as that bad, cause we were in the 4-3 at the time and Suggs was a tweener - I like Suggs but the Ravens gave up alot with the 2 picks, Pace was very good and BJ had great potential, He averaged 40+ catches a year as a deep as a 6'3" deep threat.
Pace-BJ-Q was a good draft, IMO
It is easy to say he would have improved Horton's 3-4 defense , but that was not the case at the time.
Bryant was a straight up bust!
