Kolb/Skelton splitting snaps

[52brandon]

There were FOUR amazing, totally unCardinal like things that happened in that game not just one. And there is no record setting game-ending OT runback by a rookie without the other 3.

An 84 yard drive to tie without Fitz catching a pass until they're at the 13 yard line of the Rams. Stuffing Steven Jackson not once but twice. And Campbell's block of the FG. All those things added together are what turned on the Magic in Arizona. Just one thing like that has happened many times in the past without giving the Cardinals season a boost. It was all those things happening in just 10 minutes and 4 seconds of football that did it.

sure. Good blocking leads to electrifying offensive plays. But nobody gets hyped up over blocking, it's the play resulting from it

 

[Duckjake]

sure. Good blocking leads to electrifying offensive plays. But nobody gets hyped up over blocking, it's the play resulting from it

What in the world are you talking about? Are you claiming that those other three amazing things were nothing more than a good block?

By the way I have seen people get hyped up over a great block.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

What in the world are you talking about?

I think he's trying to imply that the O-Line was the reason why the Cards won that game.

 

[52brandon]

What in the world are you talking about? Are you claiming that those other three amazing things were nothing more than a good block?

By the way I have seen people get hyped up over a great block.

I'm saying leading a scoring drive on offense and a stop on defense is expected, like blocking. Big plays, like the blocked FG or runback are not and do get people hyped up. The stadium went insane on both of those plays

 

[Duckjake]

I'm saying leading a scoring drive on offense and a stop on defense is expected, like blocking. Big plays, like the blocked FG or runback are not and do get people hyped up. The stadium went insane on both of those plays

First of all I'm not talking about the fans. We don't play on Sunday. Whether we have momentum or not is irrelevant. An 84 yard drive and a stop on defense by a team that had lost 6 straight, hadn't had a long scoring drive to win or tie since the opener in 2010 and had a reputation for failing on 3rd down and had been humiliated twice in 3 games can be huge for team morale.

 

[Duckjake]

I think he's trying to imply that the O-Line was the reason why the Cards won that game.

If so he's wrong. Skelton had to scramble for 14 yards twice on that drive. None of the Offensive linemen were in to tackle Steven Jackson and Calais Campbell plays on the defensive line. But I don't think that's it.

I think what he is trying to do is to refute my claim that it was the combination of four fantastic things the Cards did that turned the team around and claim it was only PP21's punt return. Probably because he doesn't want to give Skelton any credit for that 84 yard drive.

 

[52brandon]

First of all I'm not talking about the fans. We don't play on Sunday. Whether we have momentum or not is irrelevant. An 84 yard drive and a stop on defense by a team that had lost 6 straight, hadn't had a long scoring drive to win or tie since the opener in 2010 and had a reputation for failing on 3rd down and had been humiliated twice in 3 games can be huge for team morale.

so you think the players don't feed off the fans' energy? I completely disagree that fan momentum is irrelevant

 

[Duckjake]

so you think the players don't feed off the fans' energy? I completely disagree that fan momentum is irrelevant

WTH? Where did you get that? But since you seem to like to run off at odd angles I will say this. Fans are far more important than many would have you believe. Former players from the SDS days have been quoted as saying that the lack of fan support adversely affected their play.

I very plainly stated that I was not talking about the fans reaction but only the players. I don't know what in the world you were thinking when you wrote that.

Here I'll be like you: Obviously you hate Skelton and wish he weren't on the team. But to belittle an 84 yard game tying drive, a stop of Steven Jackson with a yard to go for a first down not once but twice, and a blocked FG, all in the 4th quarter, and all by Arizona Cardinal players, just because Kolb is your boy is really going overboard.

 

[az1965]

I am in Kolb's corner because I think he has the far greater upside.

Really? How so? The guy has been in league five years and has nothing but mediocre.

 

[az1965]

So who is Kolb in this scenario... Brady Quinn or Kyle Orton?

Matt Leinart

 

[kerouac9]

Well, I think we gave up too much for Skelton too. I think we could've had him without giving up two picks and a player to move up in the draft.


Why would anyone really have a problem with them splitting snaps after last season? The problem would be picking either one of them at this point as starter. Reps in OTAs mean so little compared to camp and preseason.

Wait... I thought the whole problem with Kevin Kolb performing to his career averages was that he didn't have an offseason with the team.

 

[Stout]

It was more Horton and the Defense, Fitzgerald and Special teams that earned those wins.

Skelton hating at its finest. I don't understand how some people's noses can be buried in Kolb's jock after he has done absolutely nothing, yet they bag on Skelton every single time they comment on him, even though he's the one winning games--yes, and strongly contributing to doing so too.

So, I'll just use specious logic and bag on Kolb. The only reason he takes huge sacks is because he runs out of our perfect pass protection and into the defense.

 

[Phrazbit]

Wow, I see this Kolb/Skelton debate proved to be even less civil than the one Cbus and I are having.

Should be a fun year.

 

[Duckjake]

Skelton hating at its finest. I don't understand how some people's noses can be buried in Kolb's jock after he has done absolutely nothing, yet they bag on Skelton every single time they comment on him, even though he's the one winning games--yes, and strongly contributing to doing so too.

So, I'll just use specious logic and bag on Kolb. The only reason he takes huge sacks is because he runs out of our perfect pass protection and into the defense.

Thanks Stout. I feel exactly the same way. If I post that I just don't see anything from Kolb that makes me think he's the QB many think he will be the response is that Skelton is stupid and lucked out because the Defense started playing better instead of listing reasons why they think Kolb can be much better in 2012.

If I post how great it was that Double Deuce led 70 and 80 yard drives to tie or win games and that makes me excited about his future, instead of being happy as you would expect from Cardinal fans people reply that Skelton is stupid and just locks on to Larry Fitzgerald and it was the defense that won the game. Ignoring the fact that 7 different receivers had catches in the game.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Thanks Stout. I feel exactly the same way. If I post that I just don't see anything from Kolb that makes me think he's the QB many think he will be the response is that Skelton is stupid and lucked out because the Defense started playing better instead of listing reasons why they think Kolb can be much better in 2012.

If I post how great it was that Double Deuce led 70 and 80 yard drives to tie or win games and that makes me excited about his future, instead of being happy as you would expect from Cardinal fans people reply that Skelton is stupid and just locks on to Larry Fitzgerald and it was the defense that won the game. Ignoring the fact that 7 different receivers had catches in the game.

According to the Kolb homers; the O Line completed all the passes, the defense gave the O-Line 5 yard fields every possession, and PP scored every single point in every single one of those games

 

[TJ]

Really? How so? The guy has been in league five years and has nothing but mediocre.

And has been a starter the equivalent of approximately one full season.

 

[Phrazbit]

And has been a starter the equivalent of approximately one full season.

And has thrown 20 TDs, 22 picks, 59% completion rate and a 6-11 record... if anything mediocre might be too kind a word.

 

[az1965]

And has been a starter the equivalent of approximately one full season.

That's another problem... he can't stay healthy.

 

[az1965]

And has been a starter the equivalent of approximately one full season.

Has played in 28 games. Had four full off seasons. Was under the tutelage of one of the better offense minds. Yet still plays like a journey man because that is what he is and will be. Just a $12 million/year one...

If he has such an upside, why did Eagles trade him? Franchise QB's are extremely rare. Andy Reid shipped the guy out because he realized this guy ain't his QBotF.

 

[TJ]

Thanks Stout. I feel exactly the same way. If I post that I just don't see anything from Kolb that makes me think he's the QB many think he will be the response is that Skelton is stupid and lucked out because the Defense started playing better instead of listing reasons why they think Kolb can be much better in 2012.

If I post how great it was that Double Deuce led 70 and 80 yard drives to tie or win games and that makes me excited about his future, instead of being happy as you would expect from Cardinal fans people reply that Skelton is stupid and just locks on to Larry Fitzgerald and it was the defense that won the game. Ignoring the fact that 7 different receivers had catches in the game.

That's good and all, but unless Skelton was playing linebacker as well as QB, someone else has to get credit for the defense allowing 10 points less per game, even though the offense was scoring 1.5 less PPG when he played the majority of the snaps under center. You can't explain the 7-2 turnaround the team made without first mentioning how defense and special teams improved in dramatic fashion. It really is that simple.

I don't think Skelton is "stupid," but he left much to be desired as a professional quarterback. I like his demeanor, toughness, and arm, but he does have the penchant for locking onto one receiver, and even though he has "superior pocket presence" that gets embellished, he still has trouble with accuracy. And accuracy is one of, if not, the most difficult skill to teach a quarterback in the NFL. Either you have it or you don't. Same reason why I don't think Ryan Lindley was worth a 6th round pick, even if it is a late-round selection.

Skelton should get credit for the game winning drives he executed, but more often than not, he put the defense in peculiar spots with some of his ill-timed interceptions during the course of a game.

 

[TJ]

If he has such an upside, why did Eagles trade him? Franchise QB's are extremely rare. Andy Reid shipped the guy out because he realized this guy ain't his QBotF.

Kolb was traded because Mike Vick played at an MVP level when he took over in 2010 and Kolb was not about to re-sign knowing he wouldn't be given the reins back. It was either let Kolb stay and get nothing in return or trade him and get value. The Eagles chose the latter. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the team felt he was a franchise QB or not.

And seeing as the previous season he was given a $10mil year extension and traded their franchise QB of 11 years elsewhere, the team felt very highly of Kolb.

If Vick doesn't go Vick Experience v. 2.0 in 2010, Kolb is still an Eagle today.

 

[az1965]

I don't think Skelton is "stupid," but he left much to be desired as a professional quarterback. I like his demeanor, toughness, and arm, but he does have the penchant for locking onto one receiver, and even though he has "superior pocket presence" that gets embellished, he still has trouble with accuracy. And accuracy is one of, if not, the most difficult skill to teach a quarterback in the NFL. Either you have it or you don't. Same reason why I don't think Ryan Lindley was worth a 6th round pick, even if it is a late-round selection.

Skelton should get credit for the game winning drives he executed, but more often than not, he put the defense in peculiar spots with some of his ill-timed interceptions during the course of a game.

How about?

Kolb sacks taken 30, yards lost 219 vs. Skelton 24, yards lost 162
Kolb fumbles 7 vs. Skelton 1

Also, I have seen so many say Skelton accuracy is awful. Well, if Skelton has serious accuracy issues, I don't see Kolb much behind in the line...

Kolb completion % 57.7 vs. Skelton 54.9

 

[TJ]

That's another problem... he can't stay healthy.

This is my only concern, which is why 2012 is the career defining year for Kolb along with his ability to transition from the WCO to Whis' offseason with a true offseason.

 

[gmabel830]

Here's my take... I was very much in the "we have to give Kolb every chance" camp last year, but have embraced the "let them battle it out and best man wins" philosophy that the team is going with going into this year. But here's something I just haven't been able to shake -- even though he hasn't had an extraordinary number of opportunities, I don't recall Skelton ever having a game where he put together 4 solid quarters of football and had a complete, quality performance. I went back through the game logs on ESPN, tried to remember the games, and just couldn't come up with an example I remembered of Skelton had a complete performance.

So, here's the question I'm left wondering: Is Skelton capable of putting up a game like this against a quality opponent?

23/29 (79.1%), 326 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 133.6 QB Rating

That's the game Kolb had against a very good Falcons team in 2010.


At least to me, at their worst, both guys have shown to be very mediocre QBs; at their best, only one has shown capable of putting up an elite QB performance; and neither guy has shown the consistency yet to be a solid NFL QB. Figuring out that last part is really the key to the off season.

 

[TJ]

How about?

Kolb sacks taken 30, yards lost 219 vs. Skelton 24, yards lost 162
Kolb fumbles 7 vs. Skelton 1

Also, I have seen so many say Skelton accuracy is awful. Well, if Skelton has serious accuracy issues, I don't see Kolb much behind in the line...

Kolb completion % 57.7 vs. Skelton 54.9

You must be Phrazbit's cousin, because nowhere did I say "Kolb" in that post.

But I'll play along.

When Kolb sets his feet and stays in the pocket, he is a 64% passer. When he moves out of the pocket, he is a 54% (as of the Ravens game last season).

In simple terms, 57.7% is still greater than 54.9%, but obviously there is more to it than that.

Never have I said Kolb is the "real deal" or the definite QBoF, but as it stands today, I think he is the more talented of the two. It's predicated on his ability to transition away from the language of the WCO and stay healthy.