Q&A w/ Rod Graves Today

[187]

ASU has a Sports Business Association club and today Rod Graves came in and spoke to the club for a bit and held a pretty lengthy Q&A after he went over his background. Heard a lot of interesting things, he's a nice guy. The question and answer that stuck out in my mind the most:

BPA or Need
Someone asked him if he drafted by BPA or need. He said that he/the team tries to stick with BPA and that whenever the team has drafted on need and not talent they have ran into trouble. Take a gander on whose name came out of his mouth right after he said that he used as an example?

Levi Brown. Said something along the lines of "We took Levi over Adrian Peterson with the 5th pick. And for those of you who might not know who Adrian Peterson is...he's a pretty good running back (while laughing)." Went onto to say something like Levi hasn't been a total bust, but then again it depends on whose opinion you are getting. Also said that they have stuck with BPA the last few drafts and he feels they have been very good.

The Kolb Trade
Said that the team was looking into Kolb, Orton, Bulger, Hasselbeck, and Palmer and that they had plan in place for all of them. Said we had offered a 1st and 3rd rounder for Kolb, but Philly had other offers on the table including one that was a 1st, 2nd, and an undisclosed piece. Philly then came back to us and inquired on a 2nd rounder + a proven player that could make an impact, preferably a corner. They asked about Peterson and we said he was off limits, so it ended up being DRC. Said that DRC was never a part of our initial trade plan and Graves talked about how well all of the coaches and players got along with and liked him and how he was always fun to be around. They decided that with the addition of Patrick Peterson, we could afford to lose DRC in order to upgrade at a position we desperately needed.

Larry's Contract
Said that they started negotiations in January and those were cutoff by the lockout. Said he felt very strongly about 2 things: that Larry wanted to remain in AZ and the we wanted Larry. Talked about Larry as the face of the franchise and what he was worth to the team. Believes that if we look back at this contract in 2-3 years he believes we will have gotten "a damn good deal". Also talked about how Larry's value to the franchise greatly outweighs the $15M/year he is getting paid.

Player he thinks will surprise the most people this year
I asked him this question and it took him a while to come up with an answer. He said he could go with an obvious answer and say Kevin Kolb or Patrick Peterson, but they wouldn't really be big surprises. He then went on to say "most people like to pay attention to the bigger/more popular positions like QB, WR, RB on offense or corner, LB, or safety on the defense" and that the player he thinks will surprise the most people is our 6th round pick David Carter. Said he thinks we got great value on Carter in the 6th and that "if I'm invited back here next year we will relive this topic." Him and Nick Eason have both been pleasant surprises for sure.

If I can think of any other post worthy answers he had I will post them up, he got asked a solid 10-15 Q's and I went out for a friends bday party afterwards, so I've had about 5 hours to forget everything else he mentioned.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Good stuff. I'm surprised he was so frank about Levi. Out of curiosity, did he actually use the word bust when talking about him or was that a paraphrase? Either way, it's good to know they acknowledge that he's been less than we'd hoped for.

Steve

 

[187]

99% sure he said the word bust. I was laughing in my head at how frank he was on the subject, because to be honest, I was definitely not expecting that. I went with a girl I know and when he mentioned 'we get into trouble when we draft need over talent' I leaned over and muttered Levi Brown and right after that he went ahead and said it out loud for me.

He is/was also very high on Ryan Williams (I was ready to lead that bandwagon into the UOP stadium) and believed that he would have made a push for the starting position. He likes what he sees from Beanie so far this year and that he is determined and running hard, but thinks Ryan will be something special. I agree 100% with him on that. Really hope that knee injury doesn't hinder him too much and he comes back strong. Greg Toler was tied in with Ryan (was asked about their injuries and how they went about replacing them) and he acknowledged that Toler is 'the other corner' that didn't get much attention playing along side DRC, but that he was very solid and he was expecting good things from him this season. Noted that it shows the franchise is on the right track with their ability to replace guys in house ie: LaRod taking over as the #2 and PP replacing Toler. Oh yeah, that reminds me he was very excited on the prospect of what the team could do with Beanie and Ryan both healthy and active. Said that they could create a lot of unfavorable matchups for opposing DC's and give them some trouble.

 

[Jasper]

I guess Levi has a lot of work to do if your GM says you are a bust, not just the fans.
If only we had kept DRC somehow. I guess corners are one of those positions that could be filled easier than a QB.

I have a feeling Ryan Williams and Toler will never be the same. Those injuries are very difficult to come back from, especially for a RB and CB.

Should of asked what was the deal with last season's QB mess.

 

[Cardiac]

Thanks for posting this. great stuff.

Did anyone ask him about which players they plan on extending this year?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Interesting, good stuff. Obvioulsy , I wasn't there but I would doubt RG flat out called him a bust. More likely, he meant Levi is not a bust, but he's no means AP and, if they had to do it over again, they would take Peterson. Levi hasn't played up to everyone's standards but I don't call a guy who has started every game for about 5 years a bust. He can be ebtter but a bust is a total waste of a pick where you get nothing out of player, lacking injury, like Wendell Bryant, Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russel, or Heath Shuler

 

[Garthshort]

I would never have asked about last year's QB situation. That book is closed (and burned), and I'm more interested in this year. My question is "Why doesn't the team have any interest in Tiki Barber?" It seems to me that we need a better 2nd RB than Chester Taylor, though I think CT makes for a great passing down back.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I would never have asked about last year's QB situation. That book is closed (and burned), and I'm more interested in this year. My question is "Why doesn't the team have any interest in Tiki Barber?" It seems to me that we need a better 2nd RB than Chester Taylor, though I think CT makes for a great passing down back.

.... and, in that that, he shares the same amount of interest as the rest of the NFL.

 

[MrYeahBut]

If he accepts the fact Levi is a bust or close to it, why the dickens haven't they drafted a replacement for him?

 

[AzStevenCal]

If he accepts the fact Levi is a bust or close to it, why the dickens haven't they drafted a replacement for him?

Well, if you're in the group that believes that Levi is the worst tackle in the game, that's a question that definitely needs answering. If you believe he is slightly below average but still serviceable you could be saying he's not quite a bust simply because he hasn't played to his draft slot.

Steve

 

[az jam]

Thanks for posting this, some good stuff.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If he accepts the fact Levi is a bust or close to it, why the dickens haven't they drafted a replacement for him?

IF we're drafting BPA, then the obvious answer is that a better player wasn't available every time we drafted. I would agree with that position.

Last year was a seriously weak LT year. This coming draft will be the best OT draft in probably a decade.

 

[Garthshort]

Crasy, you posted the very reason, why I wanted to ask the question. Why is there no interest? Since only one team (Miami) worked him out, how do teams know whether he has anything left? Is it his lockeroom behavior? Bedroom? All of the above?

 

[kerouac9]

Awesome stuff. Offering a 1st and 3rd for Kevin Kolb =

It's possible that David Carter is everything we were hoping to get from Alan Branch--or at least what we were getting from Alan Branch at 10% of the cost of Alan Branch. It's also possible that we feel having David Carter under contract for four years makes us comfortable with not paying Calais Campbell in 2012.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I guess Levi has a lot of work to do if your GM says you are a bust, not just the fans.
If only we had kept DRC somehow. I guess corners are one of those positions that could be filled easier than a QB.

I have a feeling Ryan Williams and Toler will never be the same. Those injuries are very difficult to come back from, especially for a RB and CB.

Should of asked what was the deal with last season's QB mess.

Read up on patella tendon injuries if you think that.

Patella tendon injuries are the type injuries that you get nearly 100% of your performance back. And it's a freak kind of injury, not a common one.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Awesome stuff. Offering a 1st and 3rd for Kevin Kolb =

If Kolb plays even remotely as good as he did vs. Carolina, he'd easily be worth that.

 

[kerouac9]

If Kolb plays even remotely as good as he did vs. Carolina, he'd easily be worth that.

No. If you pay $6000 for a Gremlin and it manages to run for the next 10 years and only require preventative maintenance, it doesn't justify the purchase price.

If you pay $40 a share for Apple stock when it's listed at $20 a share, it doesn't matter whether or not the stock is worth $240 a share five years later, you still overpaid at the point of purchase.

 

[Krangodnzr]

No. If you pay $6000 for a Gremlin and it manages to run for the next 10 years and only require preventative maintenance, it doesn't justify the purchase price.

If you pay $40 a share for Apple stock when it's listed at $20 a share, it doesn't matter whether or not the stock is worth $240 a share five years later, you still overpaid at the point of purchase.

********. Absolutely flawed logic.

Your logic would be more appropriately:

I paid $6000 for what could be a Porsche 911 or could be a Gremlin. If it's a Porsche 911 then it's a good deal, but if it's a Gremlin, then I got screwed.

Perception matters not in the equation, the only thing that matters is the outcome. And so far the Cardinals look right, and you (and the others against the trade) look wrong. Just like you were wrong on D Wash (and I'm wrong on Lutui to a degree )

 

[JeffGollin]

The thing I take away from Rod's comments is the whole "hindsight is 20-20 deal."

Here we are leading up to the draft. We are really thin at OT, it isn't a very deep pool of quality LT's in the draft and it's not likely Joe Thomas will be there when we pick.

It looks like it will come down to Adrian Peterson (who has a history of injuries) or Levi Brown (not elite, but plugs a pretty big hole).

No doubt the conversations back and forth about the two options had to be pretty intense. Not quite erased from Rod's and Michael's memory banks have to be what happened when we drafted Garrison Hearst (& his knee history). When Garrison went down, it had to be like watching in slow motion for two trains to collide.

So they decided to take the least risky strategy. Peterson amazingly has remained healthy, Levi turned out to be pretty much "what they thought he'd be" and the rest is history.

You gather as much info as possible and think deep thoughts, but at some point you'll have to suck it up, pull the trigger and hope the Football Gods have your back (which, in this specific case, they didn't).

My point - Drafting Levi over AP28 wasn't done on a whim by a bunch of idiot. It seemed like the right decision at the time. It just didn't work out ideally. (Another way to look at it: "Was our pickup of Kurt Warner "a genius move" or just a high-percentage one where the Football Gods tried to make up for our not drafting Peterson)?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

No. If you pay $6000 for a Gremlin and it manages to run for the next 10 years and only require preventative maintenance, it doesn't justify the purchase price.

If you pay $40 a share for Apple stock when it's listed at $20 a share, it doesn't matter whether or not the stock is worth $240 a share five years later, you still overpaid at the point of purchase.

???

The only way that anyone would pay $40 for a LISTED share at $20 is as a premium in a takeover. If it goes to $240 (six times his investment) the last thing he's concerned with is the so called overpayment.

Investment 101

 

[kerouac9]

********. Absolutely flawed logic.

Your logic would be more appropriately:

I paid $6000 for what could be a Porsche 911 or could be a Gremlin. If it's a Porsche 911 then it's a good deal, but if it's a Gremlin, then I got screwed.

Perception matters not in the equation, the only thing that matters is the outcome. And so far the Cardinals look right, and you (and the others against the trade) look wrong. Just like you were wrong on D Wash (and I'm wrong on Lutui to a degree )

Why is that flawed logic? You (ostensibly) know what you're getting in a player who's a know commodity like Kolb. The market sets the price for him. This is like drafting. According to you, no player is ever a reach, because if he's chosen 25th overall, then that's what his draft value is. But I know that you think that certain guys are values or reaches.

It's not an either/or proposition as you're saying with your car example. It's like if I bought a Scratchers ticket from a friend. He bought his Crosswords ticket for $5, but I really want that lottery ticket. So I give him $10 for it. Did I get a good value? Why does it matter whether or not the ticket is worth $5 or $50,000 once I scratch it off?

 

[Cards Czar]

No. If you pay $6000 for a Gremlin and it manages to run for the next 10 years and only require preventative maintenance, it doesn't justify the purchase price.

If you pay $40 a share for Apple stock when it's listed at $20 a share, it doesn't matter whether or not the stock is worth $240 a share five years later, you still overpaid at the point of purchase.

********. Absolutely flawed logic.

Your logic would be more appropriately:

I paid $6000 for what could be a Porsche 911 or could be a Gremlin. If it's a Porsche 911 then it's a good deal, but if it's a Gremlin, then I got screwed.

Perception matters not in the equation, the only thing that matters is the outcome. And so far the Cardinals look right, and you (and the others against the trade) look wrong. Just like you were wrong on D Wash (and I'm wrong on Lutui to a degree )

Why is that flawed logic? You (ostensibly) know what you're getting in a player who's a know commodity like Kolb. The market sets the price for him. This is like drafting. According to you, no player is ever a reach, because if he's chosen 25th overall, then that's what his draft value is. But I know that you think that certain guys are values or reaches.

It's not an either/or proposition as you're saying with your car example. It's like if I bought a Scratchers ticket from a friend. He bought his Crosswords ticket for $5, but I really want that lottery ticket. So I give him $10 for it. Did I get a good value? Why does it matter whether or not the ticket is worth $5 or $50,000 once I scratch it off?

Its called perseption. Just because you dont like a certain person or thing doesnt mean sombody else might. Take your Gremlin and your Porsche. You paid 6K for it and 10 years of only light maintenance. The value is what you wanted to pay for it, also you paid very little in maintenance on that car. Now to the Porsche you paid a fair price but the upkeep is costing you alot . Where is the value?? Its the Gremlin.

Dude you need to go back to school and study.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't buy that the Cardinals have been drafting BPA since 2007. Taking Peterson last April for sure. Had Toler and DRC and Roberts to return punts.

But, in 2009 they needed a RB to replace Edge and took Wells. In 2010 they needed a NT for their 3-4 and took Big Dan. 2008 is debatable; need pick if they felt they needed to move Rolle FS or BPA pick which allowed them to move Rolle to FS.

Meanwhile lets hope that this year's true BPA selection turns out as well as the last true BPA selection, Larry Fitzgerald.

Oh, and I just can't believe a Football executive or coach could be that candid in public. Kudos to you Rod for doing so.

 

[football karma]

RE: the price for Kolb

the 1st and 3rd offer is more than the Schaub deal ( probably the closest comp) -- that was two seconds plus a swap of firsts.

Interestingly, if you run both of those through a trade value chart -- and assume 16th overall drafting spot -- both deals produce "points" pretty comparable -- the Cards deal is higher, but not as much as I would have thought.

I was thinking about all the options the Cards had this offseason, and it does seem like they ended up with the best of the options:

McNabb-- 39 yards passing.
Orton-- not a single clutch completion against the Raiders
Gabbert -- Luke McKown is starting
Palmer-- I am betting Mike Brown holds firm.
Hasselbeck-- didn't look good either and a stop gap
Tavaris Jackson -- can you imagine what this board would be like if that were the choice

admittedly early, but so far so good

 

[Duckjake]

To be fair to Orton I would say that Kolb has more and better weapons.