Why the Cards cannot/should not pay Dansby

[Arizona's Finest]

We have the money, if Warner comes back we have one more shot and we need Dansby as a piece on this defense. If we let him go, we are forced to draft for need and our ILB position immediately becomes the weakest on the roster.

All the posturing about the cap sounds great right now but when opening day comes and we see some sloppy coupling of a 3rd rounder and a hobbling Hayes we will be crying for Dansby.

I think signing Dansby to a multi year deal at 25+ million guranteed for "one more run" is horribly short sighted.

Like you I think Dansbys influence is great on the defense as well. But in some ways his lack of discipline (from time to time), mentaility of turning it on when he wants, and NOT being that physical tackling machine thumper MLB that you said is important (and like those players you mentioned) is what leads to the defensive woes and lack of physicality as a whole.

Is Dansby a bigger part of why we are good rather then when we struggle? Of course. He is ultra talented. But I am giving 25 million a year to CORNERSTONE defensive players, which Dansby is not. I don't even see how that is a argument.

And I am not advocating letting Dansby walk and addressing the starting ILB position with a 3rd round pick. I would go after a underatted LB like Clevelands D'Qwell Jackson then draft a ILB in the first three picks to cover for the loss of Dansby. Then I would take the saved money and bring in more LB, DT, and CB depth, along with reupping Dockett and Rolle.

Dansby is a nice complimentary player at a mid level price. He is NOT worth a significant chunk of cap room when you can be filtering that money into other players already here and who could be coming.

But thats just me.

 

[ajcardfan]

Dansby is a nice complimentary player at a mid level price. He is NOT worth a significant chunk of cap room when you can be filtering that money into other players already here and who could be coming.

But thats just me.

A. There's no cap next year.

B. The Cards just finished paying him 20 million to play the last two seasons. Which also happen to be the most successful seasons ever in Arizona. Why would he take a pay cut?

C. If someone could actually point out good players that would be here instead of Dansby, I'd appreciate it. I just don't see anything out there.(given the fact that we will be limited in free agency by the new rules.)

D. Draftees don't count. We will be drafting LBs whether or not Dansby comes back. The only question will be how hard pressed we will be to reach for one.

 

[kerouac9]

I think signing Dansby to a multi year deal at 25+ million guranteed for "one more run" is horribly short sighted.

Like you I think Dansbys influence is great on the defense as well. But in some ways his lack of discipline (from time to time), mentaility of turning it on when he wants, and NOT being that physical tackling machine thumper MLB that you said is important (and like those players you mentioned) is what leads to the defensive woes and lack of physicality as a whole.

Is Dansby a bigger part of why we are good rather then when we struggle? Of course. He is ultra talented. But I am giving 25 million a year to CORNERSTONE defensive players, which Dansby is not. I don't even see how that is a argument.

And I am not advocating letting Dansby walk and addressing the starting ILB position with a 3rd round pick. I would go after a underatted LB like Clevelands D'Qwell Jackson then draft a ILB in the first three picks to cover for the loss of Dansby. Then I would take the saved money and bring in more LB, DT, and CB depth, along with reupping Dockett and Rolle.

Dansby is a nice complimentary player at a mid level price. He is NOT worth a significant chunk of cap room when you can be filtering that money into other players already here and who could be coming.

But thats just me.

I don't think that you really understand what Dansby's role is as the WILB in this defense. He's not SUPPOSED to be the "thumper" who takes on Gs and FBs and sheds the block and hits the back. That's not what his position is; that's more what Gerald Hayes does. Two years ago Hayes was really good at that; this year, Hayes was merely average.

Dansby comes in behind the DL and Hayes and the last two seasons has played much more laterally. He plays sideline to sideline making contain on outside runs and taking up zones in the flat and in the middle third of the field. He essentially played safety in the Minnesota game and was a big reason why Favre was all befuddled for four quarters.

If you want to know why Dansby is so valuable, all you have to do is look at what Gerald Hayes looks like in coverage on TEs and RBs. Gerald Hayes is exactly the kind of mid-round linebacker that you'd like to replace Dansby with, and Gerald Hayes is TERRIBLE in coverage.

Dansby was a first-round talent the Cards were lucky to get toward the top of the second in an unusually deep draft class. He has been better his whole career than guys like Maualuga and Laurinitis were this year. Both of those guys have ceilings about where Dansby is right now. If you're going to replace Dansby, who has been the second-most consistent player on the defense after Dockett, you're going to have to burn a first-round pick to do so.

 

[slinslin]

Well if Dansby leaves the Cards could sign one player for up to 9M$ or sth like that right?

How many FAs could approach that kind of salary?

Peppers? He would fill a need too. Would rather have Peppers than Dansby anyway.

Or if Wilfork was released like someone hoped.

 

[WildBB]

Well if Dansby leaves the Cards could sign one player for up to 9M$ or sth like that right?

How many FAs could approach that kind of salary?

Peppers? He would fill a need too. Would rather have Peppers than Dansby anyway.

Or if Wilfork was released like someone hoped.

We need to develop our own talent and go forward. Expensive FA's are not the answer. Doable/Serviceable FA's with some years left (ala B. Berry, M. Gandy 4-6M range) and are willing to go to work are feasable. If Wilfork came at a reasonable price then sure, otherwise see ya.....

 

[Arizona's Finest]

A. There's no cap next year.

B. The Cards just finished paying him 20 million to play the last two seasons. Which also happen to be the most successful seasons ever in Arizona. Why would he take a pay cut?

C. If someone could actually point out good players that would be here instead of Dansby, I'd appreciate it. I just don't see anything out there.(given the fact that we will be limited in free agency by the new rules.)

D. Draftees don't count. We will be drafting LBs whether or not Dansby comes back. The only question will be how hard pressed we will be to reach for one.

Way to chop up my post. I listed D'Qwell Jackson as a possible replacement in FA.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I don't think that you really understand what Dansby's role is as the WILB in this defense. He's not SUPPOSED to be the "thumper" who takes on Gs and FBs and sheds the block and hits the back. That's not what his position is; that's more what Gerald Hayes does. Two years ago Hayes was really good at that; this year, Hayes was merely average.

Dansby comes in behind the DL and Hayes and the last two seasons has played much more laterally. He plays sideline to sideline making contain on outside runs and taking up zones in the flat and in the middle third of the field. He essentially played safety in the Minnesota game and was a big reason why Favre was all befuddled for four quarters.

If you want to know why Dansby is so valuable, all you have to do is look at what Gerald Hayes looks like in coverage on TEs and RBs. Gerald Hayes is exactly the kind of mid-round linebacker that you'd like to replace Dansby with, and Gerald Hayes is TERRIBLE in coverage.

Dansby was a first-round talent the Cards were lucky to get toward the top of the second in an unusually deep draft class. He has been better his whole career than guys like Maualuga and Laurinitis were this year. Both of those guys have ceilings about where Dansby is right now. If you're going to replace Dansby, who has been the second-most consistent player on the defense after Dockett, you're going to have to burn a first-round pick to do so.

OK. Again. I don't want to pay 25 million guaranteed (and you shouldn't either) for a guy that covers TE's and backs well. Even if he does it REALLY well.

Listen I like Dansby as a player. But my biggest problem with him us that I feel the defense follows his lead and that leads to the inconsistency. And I don't want to spend that chunk of change on a guy who has a rep for playing hurt only in contract years and being out of shape unless there is money on the line.

I would give Dansby 15 million guaranteed over 4 years and be peachy keen about it. But that's not what he wants. And if we have to burn a 1st round pick next year to replace him (and I would LOOOOVE McClain or Spikes) then you do it.

I want to make one more run *if Warner comes back* like everybody else but are ware really going to give Karlos 15 million for one year and the chance of making a run? Or worse lock him up to a cap crippling deal over the long term. I think we could use that money better elsewhere and be a better overall defense by getting depth and another starter or two.

Joe understands cap implications better then anyone here. I would be interested to hear what his take in locking up all that money in a player like Dansby would be....

 

[TJ]

OK. Again. I don't want to pay 25 million guaranteed (and you shouldn't either) for a guy that covers TE's and backs well. Even if he does it REALLY well.

Listen I like Dansby as a player. But my biggest problem with him us that I feel the defense follows his lead and that leads to the inconsistency. And I don't want to spend that chunk of change on a guy who has a rep for playing hurt only in contract years and being out of shape unless there is money on the line.

I would give Dansby 15 million guaranteed over 4 years and be peachy keen about it. But that's not what he wants. And if we have to burn a 1st round pick next year to replace him (and I would LOOOOVE McClain or Spikes) then you do it.

I want to make one more run *if Warner comes back* like everybody else but are ware really going to give Karlos 15 million for one year and the chance of making a run? Or worse lock him up to a cap crippling deal over the long term. I think we could use that money better elsewhere and be a better overall defense by getting depth and another starter or two.

Joe understands cap implications better then anyone here. I would be interested to hear what his take in locking up all that money in a player like Dansby would be....

I thought this was the majority vote on this board....guess not.

Ill add a few things

a) he has made it abundantly clear what his motives are for his professional career: make money, make money and make money. He'd play for the Browns if they were the highest bidder

b) no pro bowl appearances. He was offered a larger contract last offseason than actual pro bowl linebackers, laughed at it an fired his agent.

Unfortunately players like Calvin Pace have set the bar too high for halfway decent linebackers

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I thought this was the majority vote on this board....guess not.
Ill add a few things

a) he has made it abundantly clear what his motives are for his professional career: make money, make money and make money. He'd play for the Browns if they were the highest bidder

b) no pro bowl appearances. He was offered a larger contract last offseason than actual pro bowl linebackers, laughed at it an fired his agent.

Unfortunately players like Calvin Pace have set the bar too high for halfway decent linebackers

Well I agree.

To me it's okay to overpay a little for "great" players like Fitz and Warner. Those are guys that can put the team on their back and single handedly put tallies in the "w" column.

Draft your future superstars, plug holes with mid tier FAs, and if you have to open the vault to keep a superstar then so be it.

But don't overpay for "good" players.

It sucks but we have to bite the bullet on Dansby.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Well I agree.

To me it's okay to overpay a little for "great" players like Fitz and Warner. Those are guys that can put the team on their back and single handedly put tallies in the "w" column.

Draft your future superstars, plug holes with mid tier FAs, and if you have to open the vault to keep a superstar then so be it.

But don't overpay for "good" players.

It sucks but we have to bite the bullet on Dansby.

+1

 

[MrYeahBut]

Well I agree.

To me it's okay to overpay a little for "great" players like Fitz and Warner. Those are guys that can put the team on their back and single handedly put tallies in the "w" column.

Draft your future superstars, plug holes with mid tier FAs, and if you have to open the vault to keep a superstar then so be it.

But don't overpay for "good" players.

It sucks but we have to bite the bullet on Dansby.

That strategy hasn't worked out to well in the defensive backfield...imo

 

[kerouac9]

OK. Again. I don't want to pay 25 million guaranteed (and you shouldn't either) for a guy that covers TE's and backs well. Even if he does it REALLY well.

Listen I like Dansby as a player. But my biggest problem with him us that I feel the defense follows his lead and that leads to the inconsistency. And I don't want to spend that chunk of change on a guy who has a rep for playing hurt only in contract years and being out of shape unless there is money on the line.

I would give Dansby 15 million guaranteed over 4 years and be peachy keen about it. But that's not what he wants. And if we have to burn a 1st round pick next year to replace him (and I would LOOOOVE McClain or Spikes) then you do it.

I want to make one more run *if Warner comes back* like everybody else but are ware really going to give Karlos 15 million for one year and the chance of making a run? Or worse lock him up to a cap crippling deal over the long term. I think we could use that money better elsewhere and be a better overall defense by getting depth and another starter or two.

Joe understands cap implications better then anyone here. I would be interested to hear what his take in locking up all that money in a player like Dansby would be....

Karlos Dansby has lead the team in tackles the last two seasons. For the past two seasons, he's been the most consistent player on the defense not named "Darnell Dockett." If you repeat that he's inconsistent or he doesn't play through injury over and over, that doesn't make it so. Where does this "coming out of shape" business come from? He hasn't complained about being franchised the last two seasons, and he hasn't held out from any of the offseason activities.

How many games has Karlos Dansby missed in the five years since he became a regular starter? Four. He's been voted captain of the defense two years running, and he makes all the calls before the snap.

I'm not sure where you'd rather be spending our money on the defensive side of the ball. We're not going to outbid other teams for Vince Wilfork or Julius Peppers. It's not like we have a ton of players that are up for new contracts this year or next on that side of the ball.

Karlos Dansby is a professional. He'll play wherever he'll get paid the most to do so. Because he's one of the top three best players on this defense, and one of the top two most consistent, I'd prefer to keep him around. Even if that means letting Rolle leave instead.

Would you rather invest that $20 million in Dansby, who is on the field all three downs and is unquestionably the best player in his unit, or on Rolle, a guy who has been injury-prone most of his career, and no better than the third best player on his unit?

 

[Duckjake]

Karlos Dansby has lead the team in tackles the last two seasons. For the past two seasons, he's been the most consistent player on the defense not named "Darnell Dockett." If you repeat that he's inconsistent or he doesn't play through injury over and over, that doesn't make it so. Where does this "coming out of shape" business come from? He hasn't complained about being franchised the last two seasons, and he hasn't held out from any of the offseason activities.

How many games has Karlos Dansby missed in the five years since he became a regular starter? Four. He's been voted captain of the defense two years running, and he makes all the calls before the snap.

I'm not sure where you'd rather be spending our money on the defensive side of the ball. We're not going to outbid other teams for Vince Wilfork or Julius Peppers. It's not like we have a ton of players that are up for new contracts this year or next on that side of the ball.

Karlos Dansby is a professional. He'll play wherever he'll get paid the most to do so. Because he's one of the top three best players on this defense, and one of the top two most consistent, I'd prefer to keep him around. Even if that means letting Rolle leave instead.

Would you rather invest that $20 million in Dansby, who is on the field all three downs and is unquestionably the best player in his unit, or on Rolle, a guy who has been injury-prone most of his career, and no better than the third best player on his unit?

Exactly. I love the "he only plays in a contract year" comments. Which contract year are people talking about? 2007? 2008? or 2009?

 

[Shane]

Exactly. I love the "he only plays in a contract year" comments. Which contract year are people talking about? 2007? 2008? or 2009?

Well technically all 3 were ABSOLUTELY contract years. With being tagged and knowing that after each season he would be a FA you could argue that he certainly knew it wouldnt behoove him financially to slack off in any of the three.

 

[ajcardfan]

Way to chop up my post. I listed D'Qwell Jackson as a possible replacement in FA.

I read your post. And, that was a start, and then you got lazy I guess. Go ahead and fill in the rest of the positions you listed.

I think we'd actually be fortunate to get even one decent free agent to replace Dansby. I think you are missing the reality of how restricted we're going to be since was finished as a top eight team going into this uncapped year. Or, maybe I've misread the new rules and we can get 4 good free agents for the defense as you and cardsfanmd seem to believe is possible. If we lose Dansby, I'd be very happy to see you proven correct.

 

[Buckybird]

Karlos Dansby has lead the team in tackles the last two seasons. For the past two seasons, he's been the most consistent player on the defense not named "Darnell Dockett." If you repeat that he's inconsistent or he doesn't play through injury over and over, that doesn't make it so. Where does this "coming out of shape" business come from? He hasn't complained about being franchised the last two seasons, and he hasn't held out from any of the offseason activities.

How many games has Karlos Dansby missed in the five years since he became a regular starter? Four. He's been voted captain of the defense two years running, and he makes all the calls before the snap.

I'm not sure where you'd rather be spending our money on the defensive side of the ball. We're not going to outbid other teams for Vince Wilfork or Julius Peppers. It's not like we have a ton of players that are up for new contracts this year or next on that side of the ball.

Karlos Dansby is a professional. He'll play wherever he'll get paid the most to do so. Because he's one of the top three best players on this defense, and one of the top two most consistent, I'd prefer to keep him around. Even if that means letting Rolle leave instead.

Would you rather invest that $20 million in Dansby, who is on the field all three downs and is unquestionably the best player in his unit, or on Rolle, a guy who has been injury-prone most of his career, and no better than the third best player on his unit?

Well said. But, we are the Cardinals & with the "human snail" Rod Graves as GM, so I wouldn't be suprised to watch both guys walk away free.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Karlos Dansby has lead the team in tackles the last two seasons. For the past two seasons, he's been the most consistent player on the defense not named "Darnell Dockett." If you repeat that he's inconsistent or he doesn't play through injury over and over, that doesn't make it so. Where does this "coming out of shape" business come from? He hasn't complained about being franchised the last two seasons, and he hasn't held out from any of the offseason activities.

How many games has Karlos Dansby missed in the five years since he became a regular starter? Four. He's been voted captain of the defense two years running, and he makes all the calls before the snap.

I'm not sure where you'd rather be spending our money on the defensive side of the ball. We're not going to outbid other teams for Vince Wilfork or Julius Peppers. It's not like we have a ton of players that are up for new contracts this year or next on that side of the ball.

Karlos Dansby is a professional. He'll play wherever he'll get paid the most to do so. Because he's one of the top three best players on this defense, and one of the top two most consistent, I'd prefer to keep him around. Even if that means letting Rolle leave instead.

Would you rather invest that $20 million in Dansby, who is on the field all three downs and is unquestionably the best player in his unit, or on Rolle, a guy who has been injury-prone most of his career, and no better than the third best player on his unit?

One interception, one sack, and one forced fumble in 2009. 109 tackles.

Man, K9, I know you know your stuff, but you're digging in your heels for the wrong guy here.

Dansby's production is not irreplaceable.

 

[ajcardfan]

One interception, one sack, and one forced fumble in 2009. 109 tackles.

Man, K9, I know you know your stuff, but you're digging in your heels for the wrong guy here.

Dansby's production is not irreplaceable.

We're starting to go in circles on this, BUT...

You can't dismiss that much of what Dansby does allows Wilson to play up in box or blitz. When Wilson is up there, it's almost always Karlos taking over his coverage responsibility.

 

[Buckybird]

One interception, one sack, and one forced fumble in 2009. 109 tackles.

Man, K9, I know you know your stuff, but you're digging in your heels for the wrong guy here.

Dansby's production is not irreplaceable.

If you want to just go off those assumptions I would say only DD, DRC & Calais are the only keepers on defense.

 

[Shane]

You can't dismiss that much of what Dansby does allows Wilson to play up in box or blitz. When Wilson is up there, it's almost always Karlos taking over his coverage responsibility.

Well Mike Sando doesnt believe Dansby is skilled enough at it apparently. I know I don't.

"The Cardinals should find a linebacker to run with those tight ends so they can let Wilson do what he does best: affect games at the line of scrimmage."

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/13374/chat-wrap-adrian-wilson-and-more

 

[Buckybird]

Well Mike Sando doesnt believe Dansby is skilled enough at it apparently. I know I don't.

"The Cardinals should find a linebacker to run with those tight ends so they can let Wilson do what he does best: affect games at the line of scrimmage."

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/13374/chat-wrap-adrian-wilson-and-more

I agree to a point. With the better TE's in the league most LB's get abused in coverage. Those guys are a rarity in the league today because the TE's are just so much more athletic.

 

[ajcardfan]

Well Mike Sando doesnt believe Dansby is skilled enough at it apparently. I know I don't.

"The Cardinals should find a linebacker to run with those tight ends so they can let Wilson do what he does best: affect games at the line of scrimmage."

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/13374/chat-wrap-adrian-wilson-and-more

Without Dansby Wilson would've been at the LOS a hell of a lot less the past two years. Unless you think we'd have been making the exact same calls with Togafau or Highsmith out there, I guess.

 

[ajcardfan]

I agree to a point. With the better TE's in the league most LB's get abused in coverage. Those guys are a rarity in the league today because the TE's are just so much more athletic.

Which is why three down LBers are getting more and more rare in the NFL.

 

[Doug]

I also think lots of Davis' schemes that DID work came off of using Dansby in ways most ILB's can't play.I'm just putting out there I'd like to find a way to keep him.A guy playing with 2 busted AC joints is one bad muther and if it was for the money.Then lets see his offer and if we can match it first.

Don't just let him walk.Try to see if we are at least close.The rams still regret losing London Fletcher who has still never been to the Pro Bowl but has more tackles than anyone in this last decade.He's a tackling machine.Shame he never gets the press from being so short.He used to really deliver the blow too.Plus getting deep in coverage.Just played for bad teams.

I don't see us picking up anyone better than Dansby this year for another SB run.Lets see the $$$$ we are talking about first.We know what has been spoken about already,but lets see what is offered first.

 

[Duckjake]

Well Mike Sando doesnt believe Dansby is skilled enough at it apparently. I know I don't.

"The Cardinals should find a linebacker to run with those tight ends so they can let Wilson do what he does best: affect games at the line of scrimmage."

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/13374/chat-wrap-adrian-wilson-and-more

Meanwhile with our SS up playing Rover our weak second string DBs get torched for Touchdowns.