Two year college rule.

[AsUdUdE]

They bail after a year because they are headed for greatness. Sometimes the dice rolls wrong for some of them, but to deny them the chance to even roll that dice, and instead roll a pair of dice you have planned out for them is wrong wrong wrong.

Do you feel as strongly about the NFL... The NFL has a far stricter rule, that they have to go 3 years....

But no one effectivly argues that....And one can certainly argue that
NFL players don't have nearly the long careers that NBA players do... in fact RBs NFL life is about 5 years window...

So for everyone to argue the NBA is violating a players right to "make a living", why not join Marice Clarett and Mike Williams.... I'm sure they need friends to help them argue their point....

 

[devilalum]

The main thing this does is give NBA teams another year to to look at players playing against better competition to see which are really worthy of a first round pick.

 

[PoolBoy]

it should be like football, except you should be able to go after hs. meaning if you go to college you should stay till at least your junior year. cause this college season has been a joke. UCLA is kevin love, UA was jerred bayless, the thing people USED to like about college sports was you could see a player grow over 4 years. now its i came here because i had to.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Im sorry, are we now comparing basketball athletes to the rest of America's work force?

I recant my previous 'wrong wrong wrong,' and not apply it to the above post.

No, we are comparing the NBA to the rest of America's businesses. I'm just wondering why people don't philosophically do that. Why are sports looked at differently?

 

[hafey]

The NFL is an ignorant argument. The NFL has shown, in court that 18 year olds are not physically ready to play pro football. The NBA has no such argument.

Secondly, the argument that the NBA needs more time to evaluate players is equally ignorant. A higher percentage of high school have remained in the NBA then their college or european peers. That means the system for evaluating HS players was working more efficiently and more accurately than the systems for those other players.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

The NFL is an ignorant argument. The NFL has shown, in court that 18 year olds are not physically ready to play pro football. The NBA has no such argument.

Is it really ignorant though? Is that why it was ruled that a sophomore's could enter the NFL draft only to have it turned over? I don't remember the specifics (if someone does please post it, I would be interested to read it), but I don't think that the NFL had the Clarrett decision turned over on the basis that Maurice Clarrett was not physically ready for the league.

Also, a majority of 18 year olds are not physically ready to play in the NBA. Just because we have had 3 people come out with NBA bodies directly from high school (Amare, LeBron and Oden) doesn't mean that 18 year olds as a whole are physically ready. Hell, a lot of college players aren't physically ready for the NBA.

Both age limits are collectively bargained, and I thought that the courts ruled that they could not force them to open up the door. I don't think it had anything to do with being physically ready.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Secondly, the argument that the NBA needs more time to evaluate players is equally ignorant. A higher percentage of high school have remained in the NBA then their college or european peers. That means the system for evaluating HS players was working more efficiently and more accurately than the systems for those other players.

That is completely broken logic. You have to compare players that could have been legitimately drafted into the NBA out of high school but chose to go to college versus the people that went pro. Looking at the numbers on such a big scale like you mentioned takes things out of context.

Perhaps it would be more relevant to see what the top 10 players in every high school class has done, then see what the difference was between people that went to college or straight to the NBA. Even this is only going to partially get you there, you really would have to take the time to see exactly which players had an option to be a first round pick in high school but went to college instead instead of just using a ranking system.

Also, if you look at European players that have played regularly overseas in good competition before coming to the NBA (not being drafted because players have to wait overseas sometimes do to contract issues), I bet their success rate blows all of the Skita's (people who almost never played in Europe) out of the water.

 

[jandaman]

You guys are completely missing the point of this. This is about the NCAA locking in more money than ever before. With one and done athletes and ones that skip college altogether, the NCAA loses out on any hype into the next season to watch a budding superstar. Colleges make insane amount of money off their sports programs, and locking athletes into a minimum of two years allows them to gain even more off the athletes. There is no doubt in my mind stern gets a huge kickback from this deal, as this move is counterproductive for his business.

Meanwhile, the NCAA would get people like Lebron, Kobe, stat, etc for two years of marketing orgies, along with players like Durant, Horford, and Bayless, rose, beasley who they can lock in for an additional year of fan gathering before they head off to the pros.

Then on the other hand, college athletes arent allowed to make a dime for themselves in college, and run the risk of getting injured without any payday hopes in their future if theyre forced to stay for two years. You force Kobe to play at UCLA for two years and he blows out his knee and never lands into the nba. But yeah, the rule is there for the kids...

It's wrong on so many levels.

If you think this is about nurturing a young athlete's talent then I have some prime real estate to sell you in the Florida swamplands.

And whats the chance of them blowing their knees playing NBA?? especially when everyone plays more physical, everyone tries harder, everyone strains themselves to get minutes?

They play basketball, the chance of injury can come any minute, any play.

So signing a multi-million contract before they get injured... hows the beneficial for the game? Because the chance of them getting injured is slightly higher in the NBA... 82 games a season... if you are actually trying to put on muscles, its harder when you do that much cardio and exercise.... the 2 year rule can help a lot of young kids develop their bodies in the less body-taxing league as the NCAA.

 

[hafey]

I have yet to see, ANY evidence other than some very anecdotal observations that shows that HS players have been and will be bad for the NBA, that teams NEED to be saved from themselves because these HS players just don't pan out, or that HS players are so physically immature that pro basketball before the age of 20 places them at a raised risk for injury. There is none.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

And whats the chance of them blowing their knees playing NBA?? especially when everyone plays more physical, everyone tries harder, everyone strains themselves to get minutes?

They play basketball, the chance of injury can come any minute, any play.

So signing a multi-million contract before they get injured... hows the beneficial for the game? Because the chance of them getting injured is slightly higher in the NBA... 82 games a season... if you are actually trying to put on muscles, its harder when you do that much cardio and exercise.... the 2 year rule can help a lot of young kids develop their bodies in the less body-taxing league as the NCAA.

That's for the athlete and the GMs to take a risk on, not for the league to mandate.

And if a high schooler lands in the lottery, gets his payday, and has a season ending injury, the ~3 million he made is still 3 mil in the bank, and the team most likely made that money back before the season even began if they marketed him right. Who is going to care then? The fans: "omg you hyped me up with a high schooler not ready for the big leagues and I bought season tickets I want my money back!"

Please...

This is not something for the league to control. It should be up to the Players' Union and the GMs of the league. A two year mandate for NCAA play is a cash cow for colleges, bottom line.

 

[Cheesebeef]

while I'd like to see a two year rule instituted, both for the level of college basketball and pro-ball to go up, I can see no reason why these athletes shouldn't be able to earn a living at their given profession.

 

[AsUdUdE]

while I'd like to see a two year rule instituted, both for the level of college basketball and pro-ball to go up, I can see no reason why these athletes shouldn't be able to earn a living at their given profession.

They are though.... My freshman year at ASU I lived with three ASU football players in the Sonora Dorms...

As part of their Scholorship, they recieved tuition and books ofcourse, 3 full meals a day at any Campus Buffet, free tuoring, and a stipend usally workin out to about 400-500 dollars a month that they could spend on whatever they wanted....

one day we all sat down to figure out about how much the University was paying them and it worked out to about 2,000 a month...

Now ofcourse that is no where near what they are making in the NBA... but they were richer and had more than 90% of all other students on campus.....

So... its not like they aren't getting some sort of kick-back for their services...

They were fine....

And I don't understand why everyone wants to believe that Athletics should be held on a completly different plain than everyone else in the US work force, who work for jobs who require a degree...

say I didn't go to college but I would like to teach, Why can't I go out and become a High School Teacher... I went to high school, and I am a VERY good teacher, just ask all my friends... so why is it that the Super-Intendant of a School District can keep me out of teaching.... isn;t that keeping me from doing "my" profession?

 

[Cheesebeef]

And I don't understand why everyone wants to believe that Athletics should be held on a completly different plain than everyone else in the US work force, who work for jobs who require a degree... say I didn't go to college but I would like to teach, Why can't I go out and become a High School Teacher... I went to high school, and I am a VERY good teacher, just ask all my friends...

Come on, the above is such a straw man argument, I'm not even gonna get into it.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

They are though.... My freshman year at ASU I lived with three ASU football players in the Sonora Dorms...

As part of their Scholorship, they recieved tuition and books ofcourse, 3 full meals a day at any Campus Buffet, free tuoring, and a stipend usally workin out to about 400-500 dollars a month that they could spend on whatever they wanted....

one day we all sat down to figure out about how much the University was paying them and it worked out to about 2,000 a month...

Now ofcourse that is no where near what they are making in the NBA... but they were richer and had more than 90% of all other students on campus.....

So... its not like they aren't getting some sort of kick-back for their services...

They were fine....

And I don't understand why everyone wants to believe that Athletics should be held on a completly different plain than everyone else in the US work force, who work for jobs who require a degree...

say I didn't go to college but I would like to teach, Why can't I go out and become a High School Teacher... I went to high school, and I am a VERY good teacher, just ask all my friends... so why is it that the Super-Intendant of a School District can keep me out of teaching.... isn;t that keeping me from doing "my" profession?

Yeah being richer than 90% of unemployed college students is definitely basking in the good life...

Do you believe in what you're debating or are just playing devil's advocate?

I received a tuition waiver and lived in Sonora too along with $1000 a semester in grants. I was completely satisfied, but if some station owner wanted me to anchor their news show my freshman year, I would have been out of the dorms before the ink dried on my contract.

Your argument is 100% subjective and opinionated

 

[abomb]

Here you go DCR, this answers our query;

Mark Heisler of the Los Angeles Times: '"The union membership has historically been overwhelmingly opposed to raising the age limitation by a margin of over 90% of the membership," said spokesman Dan Wasserman from the players' association office in New York.

 

[nowagimp]

While holding players out may be better for the NBA game, its arguably not better for those kids and their families. A kid can sign a contract that will save his family from poverty -or injure himself as he plays another year in college- and not get a contract at all. I come down on the side of the player here, and his ability to get some financial security for himself and his family. Whats good for the NBA is not my concern, individual rights must come before the welfare of the NBA collective. The NBA has plenty of money, and should not be protected from making stupid decisions.

 

[95pro]

i think the 1yr or 2yr deal falls under some sort of discrimination.

why limit the 18yr old hs "kid", from getting his own "job". in the nba?
he doesnt need 1 or 2yrs of education to play pro ball.

thats the beauty of america, the dream.

i say, if the guy is legally an adult, let him decide what is best for himself, whether it'd be college ball first or the nba.

just my 2cents.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Here you go DCR, this answers our query;

Mark Heisler of the Los Angeles Times: '"The union membership has historically been overwhelmingly opposed to raising the age limitation by a margin of over 90% of the membership," said spokesman Dan Wasserman from the players' association office in New York.

Wow. I am very surprised by that vote.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Im not surprised at all, the players' association protects the rights of the player, and allows them as much freedom and benefits as possible.

Laissez-faire *******!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Im not surprised at all, the players' association protects the rights of the player, and allows them as much freedom and benefits as possible.

Laissez-faire *******!

I thought I remembered them agreeing to the last age increase by Stern....

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

The increase was to 18 right? Thats a more than reasonable accord for professional basketball. Wasnt it also done to avoid potential problems with GMs signing 15 year olds to promissory declarations once they were NBA ready?

 

[abomb]

I thought I remembered them agreeing to the last age increase by Stern....

I should have included the complete blurb and link;

Mark Heisler of the Los Angeles Times: '"The union membership has historically been overwhelmingly opposed to raising the age limitation by a margin of over 90% of the membership," said spokesman Dan Wasserman from the players' association office in New York. 'In 2005 we agreed to raise the age to 19 literally at the 11th hour of bargaining [in return for NBA concessions that increased the salary cap]. ... It is highly doubtful that the league or the union would open up negotiations during the CBA, just for one issue. It has never been done before and there has been no discussion of it happening now. Never say never but it is not on the radar or in our crystal balls.'"

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Yeah I assumed they got something nice in return.


p.s. Does "literally at the 11th hour" make zero sense? Isnt that like saying I literally laughed my ass off? Using "literally" and then following it with an expression removes any significance of the term 'literally'

 

[nowagimp]

You are 100% right, that is why I am not sure if this is a good idea or not, but at least instead of a NBA team spending millions to develop them, a college is all while giving them a education and helping them mature in other ways.

ALot of these athletes arent getting an education in college, they are too distracted withtheir goal of becoming pro players. Shawn marion went to college for 3 years, youknowwhatimsayin?

 

[Cheesewater]

p.s. Does "literally at the 11th hour" make zero sense? Isnt that like saying I literally laughed my ass off? Using "literally" and then following it with an expression removes any significance of the term 'literally'

Unless it actually WAS in the 11th hour of bargaining. I think used here it is both an expression AND the truth. I wasn't there though, so...