Fitzgerald: Go back and watch the first 8 games of the season.

[Mulli]

You decide.

I knew it!! MODS!!

 

[BigRedRage]

Since you put the period at that end of it it must be so.

right?

 

[Shane]

I knew it!! MODS!!

****!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

right?

You used a ?, I'll just use one of these !

 

[DaisyCutter]

20 tds in 5 years for Q? 32 in 4 for Fitz?


Where is K9?

Q has 29 career TDs. But for their first 4 years in the NFL, Fitz has more.

There are a couple things that just hint at the promise that Larry Fitzgerald has. Torry Holt scored only 23 TDs in his first 4 seasons in the NFL(and those were the Super Bowl years). Terrell Owens scored 30. Randy Moss scored 43 TDs in his first four seasons (!!!!); he scored at least 10 times in each of his first 4 seasons. Ocho Cinco found the end zone 25 times in his first 4 years. Keyshawn Johnson scored 31 times (and he was a number 1 overall pick). Marvin Harrison scored 33 TDs in his first 4 years. Cris Carter scored 19 times in his first four seasons, but he only appeared in 9 games as a rookie. In his first four complete seasons, he caught 25 TDs.

That's pretty elite company.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Q has 29 career TDs. But for their first 4 years in the NFL, Fitz has more.

There are a couple things that just hint at the promise that Larry Fitzgerald has. Torry Holt scored only 23 TDs in his first 4 seasons in the NFL(and those were the Super Bowl years). Terrell Owens scored 30. Randy Moss scored 43 TDs in his first four seasons (!!!!); he scored at least 10 times in each of his first 4 seasons. Ocho Cinco found the end zone 25 times in his first 4 years. Keyshawn Johnson scored 31 times (and he was a number 1 overall pick). Marvin Harrison scored 33 TDs in his first 4 years. Cris Carter scored 19 times in his first four seasons, but he only appeared in 9 games as a rookie. In his first four complete seasons, he caught 25 TDs.

That's pretty elite company.

Oh no, you brought up the 1st 4 years stats to argue for Fitzgerald? We're doomed.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Q is 27 not 28 and he is exactly 2 years and 10 months older then Fitz. Which isnt that big of an age difference.

You want someone who moves the chains? Thats is Anquan Boldin and his RAC which is far superior is a big part of that. He may break 2-3 "breathless" ones a year. But there are many more that are vital and important that get the chains moved. He is also a leader on the field both with his play and the way he carries himself. Fitz not so much.

Fitz two years running has had Hammy problems. Those can become chronic and cause players to miss their fair share of games.

Your right, the almost-three-year age difference isn't that big. Especially when you count the number of hits that each takes. Right?

I already responded to the "moves the chains" charge:

But the difference between the first down receptions between He-Man Anquan Boldin and Dive-Monkey Larry Fitzgerald is 2%. 2 extra first downs per season, basically.

No, you're right. The hamstring injury that limited Larry Fitzgerald to only 15 games last year and "limited" him to only 1400 yards and 10 TDs and a career high in yards per reception is concerning. Just not as concerning as two knee reconstructions and a hip injury not dissimilar to the one that ended Priest Holmes' career.

 

[joeshmo]

Doesnt look like a major difference to me considering injuries.

Isnt that exactly the point a few are trying to make. Injuries means less production. If they went by per game stats Boldin would win, but they are talking about a season as a whole.

 

[Shane]

Your right, the almost-three-year age difference isn't that big. Especially when you count the number of hits that each takes. Right?

I already responded to the "moves the chains" charge:



No, you're right. The hamstring injury that limited Larry Fitzgerald to only 15 games last year and "limited" him to only 1400 yards and 10 TDs and a career high in yards per reception is concerning. Just not as concerning as two knee reconstructions and a hip injury not dissimilar to the one that ended Priest Holmes' career.

Your reaching. His hamstrings are a very real concern. Thats two years in a row that they have caused him to miss some gametime. They could get worse very easily and cause him long stretches of missed time. Just ask Isaac Bruce and Steve Smith about hammy problems.

But it is just specualtion he may never have another problem with them ever. On the same token Boldin may never have another knee issue in his career. He had one reconstructive surgery on one leg in college and no ill affects 7 years later. He had a meniscus problem that was fixed and wala 4 years later and still no issues with that knee. So you saying they are a concern when so much time has passed is just as much a reach as my concern for LArry's hammy's.

Oh and Larry doesnt take hits because hes scared. He doesnt play with heart and will never have snow balls chance in hell of being the captian of this team.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Oh no, you brought up the 1st 4 years stats to argue for Fitzgerald? We're doomed.

I think that reasonable people can disagree on this point. It's impossible to resolve a conversation about whether Anquan Boldin or Larry Fitzgerald are "better". It's equally impossible to prove that they're "similar players." Because they're not.

What Anquan brings to the team in terms of intangibles is irreplacable. He's proved his value to this franchise over and over, while making great contributions on the field, as well. The offensive personnel voted Q team captain. The Cards were the only team in the NFL who didn't name a quarterback team captain. That speaks volumes.

Larry Fitzgerald is an incredible player with an unbelievable future in this league. I would like to see him take more of a leadership role, but he was out there running patterns with Matt Leinart last week. That says a lot, too. Fitz's average gain per reception have gone up every season that he's been in the NFL.

Both players are great assets to this franchise; neither should be denigrated, because both of their contributions are irreplacable. But those who are claiming that Larry Fitzgerald is replacable should ask fans of the Minnesota Vikings and Jacksonville Jaguars how easy it is to find 1300+ yard recievers.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Oh and Larry doesnt take hits because hes scared. He doesnt play with heart and will never have snow balls chance in hell of being the captian of this team.

Wow. I can't tell whether this is a sarcastic comment or not. But if you honestly think that this is true after seeing the times that Kurt Warner laid out Larry Fitzgerald over the middle this season, and he still stretched out to make the catch, I don't know what to tell you. Wow.

 

[Shane]

I think that reasonable people can disagree on this point. It's impossible to resolve a conversation about whether Anquan Boldin or Larry Fitzgerald are "better". It's equally impossible to prove that they're "similar players." Because they're not.

What Anquan brings to the team in terms of intangibles is irreplacable. He's proved his value to this franchise over and over, while making great contributions on the field, as well. The offensive personnel voted Q team captain. The Cards were the only team in the NFL who didn't name a quarterback team captain. That speaks volumes.

Larry Fitzgerald is an incredible player with an unbelievable future in this league. I would like to see him take more of a leadership role, but he was out there running patterns with Matt Leinart last week. That says a lot, too. Fitz's average gain per reception have gone up every season that he's been in the NFL.

Both players are great assets to this franchise; neither should be denigrated, because both of their contributions are irreplacable. But those who are claiming that Larry Fitzgerald is replacable should ask fans of the Minnesota Vikings and Jacksonville Jaguars how easy it is to find 1300+ yard recievers.

Good post and I agree wiht most of it. However you could also say the same in the bolded about Boldin.

While I dont think Fitz is easily replcaeable. I do believe that with his cap hit the way it is and if they cant resolve the contact issues you absolutley trade him and try and upgrade your team in other areas to help make up for it.

In a perfect world I hope a contract is done and he retires a cardinal. We shall see.

 

[Shane]

Wow. I can't tell whether this is a sarcastic comment or not. But if you honestly think that this is true after seeing the times that Kurt Warner laid out Larry Fitzgerald over the middle this season, and he still stretched out to make the catch, I don't know what to tell you. Wow.

He doesnt lay out that often in fact most of Larrys "hard hits" are along the sideline falling to the ground. Thats where he makes his living not in the middle. Yes when you see a player countless time take a dive toward the chains when he could have easily gained another 5 or more yards by continuing to run it makes you wonder what thell he is doing and why.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Good post and I agree wiht most of it. However you could also say the same in the bolded about Boldin.

While I dont think Fitz is easily replcaeable. I do believe that with his cap hit the way it is and if they cant resolve the contact issues you absolutley trade him and try and upgrade your team in other areas to help make up for it.

In a perfect world I hope a contract is done and he retires a cardinal. We shall see.

I agree with both of those things, as well. But I think that the Anquan Boldin that we've seen the past 5 years isn't going to get much better. His YPC number has been all over the place. With more consistent offensive playcalling and a better QB, his TD numbers should increase. But I'm not sure that Q is going to improve over the next 5 years. He's still an incredible player who gets more from the tools he was given than any other player in the NFL, and has the respect of not only his teammates, but the rest of the league.

I think that the Fitz that we see now is only the beginning. I think he could be as good as Marvin Harrison or Issac Bruce for his career. The kind of guy who could average 1200 yards, 10 TDs, and 85+ receptions for a decade or more. There's many players in the NFL that you can say that about. I don't think you trade that guy unless his cap number gets to that $17+ million plateau. But I don't think it'll get there.

 

[moklerman]

Boy, message boards are fun. This thread is so ridiculous, on so many different levels, that it's actually entertaining.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

As much as Fitz fans dont want to admit it, had Boldin not been hurt, Q would have had the huge stats this year. He broke his hip while destroying the Ravens singlehandedly and had been far better than Fitz up until that point. IMO, Kurt Warner can target in on almost anyone and give them a great stat line.

I am not saying Fitz isn't great, but this whole situation is ridiculous.

So we are to say that what we assume Boldin can do healthy is more valuable than what Fitzgerald actually did.

 

[Shane]

So we are to say that what we assume Boldin can do healthy is more valuable than what Fitzgerald actually did.

They are a wash IMO. Both good at what they do. But one is certainly more electrifying than the other.

 

[DaisyCutter]

He doesnt lay out that often in fact most of Larrys "hard hits" are along the sideline falling to the ground. Thats where he makes his living not in the middle. Yes when you see a player countless time take a dive toward the chains when he could have easily gained another 5 or more yards by continuing to run it makes you wonder what thell he is doing and why.

We must not have been watching a lot of the same games, then. There have been tons of times when Warner through the ball high and outside and Fitz had to go out and get it. Fitz doesn't make his living going over the middle, but he spends a lot of time there. 49 of his receptions (according to CNNSI.com) last season were thrown within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. There's a lot of traffic out there.

I don't wonder why he's diving out of bounds. The 5 yards doesn't matter as much as making it to the next play. We've seen Anquan Boldin fumble 9 times in his career going for largely unnecessary yardage. We love to see him do it, but what's an extra yard if you're going to miss the next 4 games? You can't help the team if you're not on the field.

 

[Shane]

We must not have been watching a lot of the same games, then. There have been tons of times when Warner through the ball high and outside and Fitz had to go out and get it. Fitz doesn't make his living going over the middle, but he spends a lot of time there. 49 of his receptions (according to CNNSI.com) last season were thrown within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. There's a lot of traffic out there.

I don't wonder why he's diving out of bounds. The 5 yards doesn't matter as much as making it to the next play. We've seen Anquan Boldin fumble 9 times in his career going for largely unnecessary yardage. We love to see him do it, but what's an extra yard if you're going to miss the next 4 games? You can't help the team if you're not on the field.

2 sides to every coin. I have seen Larry dive for the chains and miss when had he kept running he would have made it. Hes done it on several occasion. Thus we end up punting. Who is to say that that wasnt the crucial 1st down on what would have been a scoring drive to clicnch the game or turn the momentum in your favor. Much like him running out of bounds on his sure TD with NOBODY in front of him.

Getting you catches within 10 yards doesnt necessarily mean middle of field. Larry lives from the hash marks out. Does he go inside? Yes but its not near as much as he is outside. But that is what best suits his skill set so I dont blame him for it. Its his drive killing dives that I have witnessed that I dont like. Whos to say that extra 3-8 yards he could have gained wouldnt later be the difference between a punt and a FG too?

 

[40yearfan]

We should just get rid of everyone & start over. Clean slate.

I'll buy that. I think the only one we should keep is Rod Graves.:waitsforthunderousexplosion:

 

[cardsfanmd]

I think that reasonable people can disagree on this point. It's impossible to resolve a conversation about whether Anquan Boldin or Larry Fitzgerald are "better". It's equally impossible to prove that they're "similar players." Because they're not.

What Anquan brings to the team in terms of intangibles is irreplacable. He's proved his value to this franchise over and over, while making great contributions on the field, as well. The offensive personnel voted Q team captain. The Cards were the only team in the NFL who didn't name a quarterback team captain. That speaks volumes.

Larry Fitzgerald is an incredible player with an unbelievable future in this league. I would like to see him take more of a leadership role, but he was out there running patterns with Matt Leinart last week. That says a lot, too. Fitz's average gain per reception have gone up every season that he's been in the NFL.

Both players are great assets to this franchise; neither should be denigrated, because both of their contributions are irreplacable. But those who are claiming that Larry Fitzgerald is replacable should ask fans of the Minnesota Vikings and Jacksonville Jaguars how easy it is to find 1300+ yard recievers.

I agree 100%. Great post. I got out of this conversation earlier because I felt like I was portraying myself as a Fitz-hater--which I am not.

 

[Mulli]

I agree 100%. Great post. I got out of this conversation earlier because I felt like I was portraying myself as a Fitz-hater--which I am not.

You just want the Cards to have receivers like the Ravens. Admit it!

 

[moklerman]

Much like him running out of bounds on his sure TD with NOBODY in front of him.

I was just as frusturated by this play as everyone else but let's not forget that Boldin isn't above this type of blunder. Which game was it where Warner passed to Boldin, deep down the middle and he had an easy TD only to fall down? It happens. It's not really an actual "problem" for either Fitz or Q.

 

[cardsfanmd]

You just want the Cards to have receivers like the Ravens. Admit it!

I had written another paragraph after that but deleted it before I submitted it. Keep in mind that the Ravens won a SB by investing money through the D and the O-line. If I had it my way our premier players would be on the LOS, S and QB.

 

[Shane]

I was just as frusturated by this play as everyone else but let's not forget that Boldin isn't above this type of blunder. Which game was it where Warner passed to Boldin, deep down the middle and he had an easy TD only to fall down? It happens. It's not really an actual "problem" for either Fitz or Q.

There a difference between losing your footing, getting your feet tangled and falling down as to being completely untouched and running directly out of bounds.