With the Josh Allen extension, gotta imagine Kyler's up next year

[oaken1]

Continuity of bad decision makers isn't good for winning either. Our GM can't draft, our HC doesn't want to coach anything but offense. Missing the playoffs last year can be chalked up to not being able to manage game situations.

MikeyB needs to hire a VP in charge of scouting and draft.... let keim continue to do his deals that he is so good at and let the other guy draft the players

 

[BritCard]

Regardless, they're not "just fine." They're unlikely to be a playoff team, and have many years of probable rebuilding ahead of them, barring Jameis suddenly becoming elite with Payton's coaching. I don't know what else you mean by "just fine" unless you think I thought they or we in the future are going to be barred from playing in the league because of a cap situation.

My point is, we're bottom five in how full our roster is, we don't have a particularly large amount of talent on the team, and we have very little money to handle that problem with the looming contract on the horizon.

Also, let's take a look at round 3 RBs and how great they've been in the past six years, to see if "a top RB can be a round 3 pick next year." I'll star the guys making real impacts.

2021:
Trey Sermon - TBD, but won't start
2020:
Ke'Shawn Vaugn - 3rd stringer
Zack Moss - Maybe the starter? He's hurt though.
Darrynton Evans - Will barely see the field
2019:
Darrell Henderson - Only the starter due to injury, was replaced after year one
*David Montgomery - The first example of a good RB on this list
*Devin Singletary - Probably more credit than he's deserved given he's in a timeshare
Damien Harris - Has potential but was a complete wash year one
2018:
Royce Freeman - Non-factor to probably get released or traded, team signed a pricey FA
2017:
*Alvin Kamara - Legit star
*Kareem Hunt - Kinda half of a star deserved here because he let his team down
D'Onta Foreman - Non-factor
*James Conner - I'll give him a star but he was a non-factor as a rookie and then mediocre besides 2018
2016:
Kenyan Drake - Some flashes but ultimately not a starting caliber player for Miami (or us)
C.J. Prosise - Non-factor

So... out of 15 guys in six years, five guys have been legit players. Only 3 have had 1,000 yard seasons (although Kamara deserves a shout out for his passing game accomplishments).

The success rate isn't as high as you seem to think. It's not just a plug and play scenario. Especially when you consider that the successful rookies in that list are basically just Hunt and Kamara.

You really can't let the running back thing go uh?

Never in the history of the game has the running back been so devalued as a runner. I was just doing some digging in my yard and dug up two running backs. The things get everywhere.

Apart from a few exceptions the says of the superstar RB are gone. Even peak David Johnson was predominantly the star he was because of his pass catching ability. His peak rushing year was 1200 yards at 4.2 YPA.

There are so many functional running backs coming out every year that it just makes more sense to have several you can rotate considering the wear and tear and how damaging it can be to have a star you rely on get injured (Like the Panthers or Saints last year). Even the Brown's with a stud like Chubb run a committee with Hunt.

I'm happy with the room of Connor and Edmonds. I think Ito Smith makes the roster too and can get you 300-400 yards in rotation.

 

[Solar7]

You really can't let the running back thing go uh?

Never in the history of the game has the running back been so devalued as a runner. I was just doing some digging in my yard and dug up two running backs. The things get everywhere.

Apart from a few exceptions the says of the superstar RB are gone. Even peak David Johnson was predominantly the star he was because of his pass catching ability. His peak rushing year was 1200 yards at 4.2 YPA.

There are so many functional running backs coming out every year that it just makes more sense to have several you can rotate considering the wear and tear and how damaging it can be to have a star you rely on get injured (Like the Panthers or Saints last year). Even the Brown's with a stud like Chubb run a committee with Hunt.

I'm happy with the room of Connor and Edmonds. I think Ito Smith makes the roster too and can get you 300-400 yards in rotation.

I'm all about having a stable of competent backs. We have a stable of mediocre to bad RBs.

Like, Edmonds is one of the most pedestrian RBs in the league, and he's the one I have the most faith in. That's bad news.

 

[Solar7]

Lmao.... sorry bro.... third least... out of five!!
Perspective and agenda.... third least is also third best.

I mean, screw keim... fire him yesterday and go beat him with a bat tomorrow.... I’m on board

but try not to be so obvious

I'm confused. We're bottom five. There are 32 teams in the league. What agenda?

 

[BritCard]

I'm all about having a stable of competent backs. We have a stable of mediocre to bad RBs.

Like, Edmonds is one of the most pedestrian RBs in the league, and he's the one I have the most faith in. That's bad news.

Pedestrian how?

He had 4.6 YPC last year. And frankly our run game sucked last year. He had 5.1 the year before. Granted, he only had 97 carries last year but that's still a decent performance. He had nearly 900 scrimmage yards last year.

I see a player growing and developing every year after coming from DII ball.

 

[vince56]

Quarterback salaries are deep into ridiculous territory.

Man, wait until you see owner salaries.

 

[Solar7]

Pedestrian how?

He had 4.6 YPC last year. And frankly our run game sucked last year. He had 5.1 the year before. Granted, he only had 97 carries last year but that's still a decent performance. He had nearly 900 scrimmage yards last year.

I see a player growing and developing every year after coming from DII ball.

I don't see a particularly impressive guy on the field, and when he's gotten a chance to start, the results have been poor. He's an okay change of pace back, but I don't think any team is clamoring for him to be their starter. Does he deserve to be on an NFL roster? Sure. At the end of the day, the numbers don't back him up as any kind of special player, and to me, he doesn't fit the eye test.

 

[BritCard]

I don't see a particularly impressive guy on the field, and when he's gotten a chance to start, the results have been poor. He's an okay change of pace back, but I don't think any team is clamoring for him to be their starter. Does he deserve to be on an NFL roster? Sure. At the end of the day, the numbers don't back him up as any kind of special player, and to me, he doesn't fit the eye test.

He's had 2 games as a starter.

Vs the Giants in 2019 where he tore them to shreds with 3 great TDs and 126 yards and against Miami last year 70 yards on 25 carries at only 2.8 YPC.

He's had 3 games ever with double digit carries. That's hardly enough to judge him on. Especially as there were all kinds of bad things going on in that Miami game too.

It's weird though how it's games like Miami that stick in your mind when judging him and not the Giants game.

In all honesty, he could go either way. We don't know. But he's shown enough in his limited carries, and he's put the work in to deserve a shot at it. You can't complain that players Keim drafts don't work out and at the same time argue that we shouldn't give Edmonds the shot to prove he can be an RB1.

 

[Solar7]

He's had 2 games as a starter.

Vs the Giants in 2019 where he tore them to shreds with 3 great TDs and 126 yards and against Miami last year 70 yards on 25 carries at only 2.8 YPC.

He's had 3 games ever with double digit carries. That's hardly enough to judge him on. Especially as there were all kinds of bad things going on in that Miami game too.

It's weird though how it's games like Miami that stick in your mind when judging him and not the Giants game.

In all honesty, he could go either way. We don't know. But he's shown enough in his limited carries, and he's put the work in to deserve a shot at it. You can't complain that players Keim drafts don't work out and at the same time argue that we shouldn't give Edmonds the shot to prove he can be an RB1.

Jonas Gray once ran for 200 yards and four TDs and was never heard from again. Many RBs have unexpected good days, and can't keep it up, kinda like Kenyan Drake.

Edmonds has actually started four games. That Miami game is his top performance as a starter. Coming in with no one game planning for you is a lot different than being the guy teams expect to see, and every time he has to start... nothing happens. And that 2019 Giants team was bottom 3 in points allowed... it wasn't exactly a gargantuan accomplishment.

I know it can sound like I'm rooting against our team, but I'm really not. I'm just trying to be realistic - no team is shaking in their boots about playing against Edmonds. Maybe he takes a step up. Maybe he doesn't. As of right now, he's done nothing special.

 

[BritCard]

Jonas Gray once ran for 200 yards and four TDs and was never heard from again. Many RBs have unexpected good days, and can't keep it up, kinda like Kenyan Drake.

Edmonds has actually started four games. That Miami game is his top performance as a starter. Coming in with no one game planning for you is a lot different than being the guy teams expect to see, and every time he has to start... nothing happens. And that 2019 Giants team was bottom 3 in points allowed... it wasn't exactly a gargantuan accomplishment.

I know it can sound like I'm rooting against our team, but I'm really not. I'm just trying to be realistic - no team is shaking in their boots about playing against Edmonds. Maybe he takes a step up. Maybe he doesn't. As of right now, he's done nothing special.

No team is shaking in their boots playing against any RB save for Henry, CMC, Kamara and possible Dalvin Cook.

Most of the league has a RB or bunch of RB's who are just good solid guys. A lot of them, like Aaron Jones, Austin Ekeler, Raheem Mostert, Drake etc had to work their way up through backup roles before being given the chance to start. I'm sure there were guys in their fan base saying "I just don't see it" too.

I'm interested to know what 4 games you think Edmonds started. If your using Pro Football Reference as a guide (which does say 4) they are wrong. He was out carried vs Seattle by DJ and he was out carried in the Detroit game they have him down as started by Drake who had 6x as many carries. So not the lead back.

The NO game we were trash and their D line owned us all game. And the one game he was the lead back against the NYG they don't have him as the starter (teams game plan for all RB's now with teams using multiple).

You know if he does well nobody is going to let you forget how much you banged on about how bad our RB room is right? Just to be clear

 

[Solar7]

Aaron Jones and Ekeler are definitely players teams have to majorly game plan for. You're also leaving out guys like Saquon, Elliott, Chubb... I don't need to list everyone when PFF is good enough for a quick snapshot here, as they have him ranked the 30th best of 32 RBs heading into 2021.

Whether he got the most carries is irrelevant. His AZCardinals.com bio states he started the Seattle game, and if I recall correctly, that was a game that DJ was a little beat up heading into and he was a game time decision to play. FantasyData.com also has him listed with 4 career starts. However, I can't find further detail on what was up with the Lions game. But at least in three other games, he wasn't anything special. Not to mention that he's struggled with getting hurt pretty frequently.

I'll take the L if Chase ends up being great, but I was right about Drake. Thus far I've been right about Kliff. Murray has been the only guy where I was wrong, but even still, we have no playoff appearances to show for it.

I'm totally willing to own up to wrong takes, and I've only been a darksider since 2019.

 

[QuebecCard]

MikeyB needs to hire a VP in charge of scouting and draft.... let keim continue to do his deals that he is so good at and let the other guy draft the players

• Vice president of player personnel – Quentin Harris
• Vice president of pro scouting – Adrian Wilson
• Director of player personnel – Dru Grigson
• Director of college scouting – Chris Culmer

 

[BritCard]

Aaron Jones and Ekeler are definitely players teams have to majorly game plan for. You're also leaving out guys like Saquon, Elliott, Chubb... I don't need to list everyone when PFF is good enough for a quick snapshot here, as they have him ranked the 30th best of 32 RBs heading into 2021.

Whether he got the most carries is irrelevant. His AZCardinals.com bio states he started the Seattle game, and if I recall correctly, that was a game that DJ was a little beat up heading into and he was a game time decision to play. FantasyData.com also has him listed with 4 career starts. However, I can't find further detail on what was up with the Lions game. But at least in three other games, he wasn't anything special. Not to mention that he's struggled with getting hurt pretty frequently.

I'll take the L if Chase ends up being great, but I was right about Drake. Thus far I've been right about Kliff. Murray has been the only guy where I was wrong, but even still, we have no playoff appearances to show for it.

I'm totally willing to own up to wrong takes, and I've only been a darksider since 2019.

You wasn't right about Drake though.

He was 12th in yards last year. It wasn't a great year, it was pretty average after a good 2019 but far from the trash you claim.

And he was massively under used in the passing game.

 

[Solar7]

You wasn't right about Drake though.

He was 12th in yards last year. It wasn't a great year, it was pretty average after a good 2019 but far from the trash you claim.

And he was massively under used in the passing game.

He was 12th in rushing because tons of guys missed expected time last year. If you go back and look at my posts, I said he was a complementary back, not worth franchise tag or extended contract money, and would struggle to get to 1,000 yards (and he didn't).

He was also not efficient whatsoever. Only three (maybe 4, I slightly lost count since I had to get up in between this post) RBs ahead of him started in the same or more games.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You wasn't right about Drake though.

He was 12th in yards last year. It wasn't a great year, it was pretty average after a good 2019 but far from the trash you claim.

And he was massively under used in the passing game.

12th is misleading when you consider injuries. Look at actual production.

 

[kerouac9]

It's hilarious that a thread about QB contracts has been utterly derailed by a runningback discussion.

Elite running backs probably matter. If you believe that teams know more than we do, that's what we're seeing. The Top 8 QBs make 30% more money than the next tier — it's an immediate drop-off. That's not an accident.

 

[oaken1]

• Vice president of player personnel – Quentin Harris
• Vice president of pro scouting – Adrian Wilson
• Director of player personnel – Dru Grigson
• Director of college scouting – Chris Culmer

Yeah.... need a guy right between those guys and keim

 

[BritCard]

12th is misleading when you consider injuries. Look at actual production.

Our whole run game was trash last year. After the inventiveness of the year before it looked like someone found Mike McCoys old playbook.

Drake had some issues, with horizontal running, but I think he was just trying too hard to justify his money. There were some fundamental issues in the run game last year that held him back. That doesn't make him a bad player, and why he's getting paid what looks like $8.5m for 1 year.