Why will Murray fail?

[Krangodnzr]

Krang has a point. Those guys might not have been viewed as highly as the current Oklahoma crew, but we have hindsight with them that proves how talented they were in actuality. The Oklahoma group is all projected talent until we see them perform similarly at the nfl level.

EXACTLY.

All of those Oklahoma guys could be out of the NFL 5 years from now. Hopefully ONE isn't

 

[kerouac9]

Wow. This is getting so ridiculous.

K9, you seldom respond to my posts, but I'll try this one time anyway.

Have you watched Murray's 2018 season film recap/summary?

What I would really like to know sir, is what you saw, and what you thought, when you watched every throw, and every run Murray made during 2018.

Murray's choice seemed inevitable, or not. I don't really like college football, and I really don't like my Sooner in-laws. So I'm a pretty big loser here.

I watched the Alabama game cut-up and some of the Bedlam. I didn't see a guy who's revolutionizing the college game. I saw maybe an evolution from Mike Vick as a passer, but I didn't see the same impossible speed.

IMO, he looked like a better passer than Mike Vick, but not as good a runner. I know that Mike says otherwise today, but whatevs. I didn't see a guy who is going to change the way that football is played; I didn't even see the potential for that.

 

[BW52]

Stanford had 4 guys drafted in 2012 .
Oklahoma had 8 guys drafted in 2019/all offensive guys.
for the record.

 

[Krangodnzr]

he sucked so much that he lost his first starting job in college.

Playing tight with facts, huh? He wasn't the starter, so he had no job to lose.

Then, had one AMAZING season. Admittedly, but to try and argue he's a transcendent talent after one year, playing on an absolutely stacked team that collectively crapped the bed the first time they played a great team is ridiculous. As is completely ignoring the history of the game that size does have an impact as far as the QB position is considered.

That OU team didn't belong on the same field as Alabama. That much was obvious after one quarter. So how stacked were they? Good QBs make teams look better I would argue. That's one of the biggest indictments of rookie Rosen, he never made the team look better.

Do any of those things means he's going to SUCK? ABSOLUTELY NOT. But to completely blow them off as legitimate concerns is burying your head so far in the sand that you've basically reached the Trench from Aquaman.

His teams play against Alabama was/is concerning, but you can say that about 99% of all teams that play Alabama. It's not like we don't have a decade of Alabama dominance over nearly every they play that doesn't prove this.

But QB play is very much dependent on the rest of the team and when Hollywood Brown drops everything thrown his way and the offensive line looks like a JUCO level outfit, the QB play is going to suffer. And by suffer, throw for 300 yards, rush for 100 yards and lead his offense to 30 points against one of the best defenses in college football.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Murray's choice seemed inevitable, or not. I don't really like college football, and I really don't like my Sooner in-laws. So I'm a pretty big loser here.

I watched the Alabama game cut-up and some of the Bedlam. I didn't see a guy who's revolutionizing the college game. I saw maybe an evolution from Mike Vick as a passer, but I didn't see the same impossible speed.

IMO, he looked like a better passer than Mike Vick, but not as good a runner. I know that Mike says otherwise today, but whatevs. I didn't see a guy who is going to change the way that football is played; I didn't even see the potential for that.

You watched a game where his entire team was absolutely overmatched and you make that call. Talk about small sample size! It goes both ways.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Dude, Solar doesn’t have to do that. You sound like Trump asking for pledges of loyalty.

Lol.. it does look a little creepy now that I re-read it.

But honestly Ouchie, I'm just trying help Solar7 to work through this because he is obviously having a very difficult time with the pick.

Jesus that sounds creepy too.. lol okay.. I'll just stop trying to be a "unite-er" if it's going to cast me as Jim Jones wearing a #1 jersey.

 

[kerouac9]

You watched a game where his entire team was absolutely overmatched and you make that call. Talk about small sample size! It goes both ways.

I"m not saying that he sucks, and you'll never find a place where I do. I'm saying there's a lot of risk there; I always have. That's why I'm a little confused by the amplitude of confidence about him — especially from some people who were skeptical a fortnight ago or less.

If you want a different voice articulating the things I'm thinking on Murray, check out FO's draft chat from day 1. You won't have to scroll far:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/audibles/2019/audibles-line-2018-nfl-draft-day-one

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

You watched a game where his entire team was absolutely overmatched and you make that call. Talk about small sample size! It goes both ways.

It takes all of a few minutes to go over to youtube and search for "Kyler Murray vs __team name__" and watch condensed versions of every play that he was involved in (outside of simply handing the ball to the RB).

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Not one of the anti-Murray crowd have ever once criticized his actual play. The criticize things that require telepathy to prove. They criticize his handling of interviews. The say his daddy is too involved, even though I've never heard Kevin Murray speak. They criticize what toppings he like on his cheeseburgers, but they don't criticize how Murray throws a football.

Lol... exactly.

 

[BW52]

Not one of the anti-Murray crowd have ever once criticized his actual play. The criticize things that require telepathy to prove. They criticize his handling of interviews. The say his daddy is too involved, even though I've never heard Kevin Murray speak. They criticize what toppings he like on his cheeseburgers, but they don't criticize how Murray throws a football.

Nonsense.
There are questions how his game will translate to the NFl.
There are questions about can he do more than 1 quick read and do his progressions.
There are questions concerning his ability to throw into tight windows.
Does he have the presence of mind to know when to eat the ball instead of forcing the play.
There are questions concerning size and durability.
There are question concerning his ability to handle adversity.
There are questions concerning his "elusiveness'
There are questions concerning his ability to perform in a NFl pocket.
Will he be able to "shake off" a bad game or a streak of bad games.
Will he be able to handle the microscope that comes with being the #1 pick.

Those are not picking on Murray questions.many of those same questions are asked about all rookie QBs.

 

[GuernseyCard]

This is getting truly tedious.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I"m not saying that he sucks, and you'll never find a place where I do. I'm saying there's a lot of risk there; I always have. That's why I'm a little confused by the amplitude of confidence about him — especially from some people who were skeptical a fortnight ago or less.

If you want a different voice articulating the things I'm thinking on Murray, check out FO's draft chat from day 1. You won't have to scroll far:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/audibles/2019/audibles-line-2018-nfl-draft-day-one

Haha I see you literally copied and pasted things from this article in some of your criticisms.

But it's a really good transcript, I don't disagree with much of it.

Kyler Murray is the ultimate swing for the fences. IMO he is the quickest way to relevancy that the Cardinals had. There is substantial risk, but the pay off is substantially large.

 

[dscher]

Nonsense.
There are questions how his game will translate to the NFl.
There are questions about can he do more than 1 quick read and do his progressions.
There are questions concerning his ability to throw into tight windows.
Does he have the presence of mind to know when to eat the ball instead of forcing the play.
There are questions concerning size and durability.
There are question concerning his ability to handle adversity.
There are questions concerning his "elusiveness'
There are questions concerning his ability to perform in a NFl pocket.
Will he be able to "shake off" a bad game or a streak of bad games.
Will he be able to handle the microscope that comes with being the #1 pick.

Those are not picking on Murray questions.many of those same questions are asked about all rookie QBs.

You call it nonsense. But then give no criticism or dissection of his ACTUAL play on the field. You just listed a whole bunch of hypotheticals. Yes, we know he hasn't played in the NFL yet. But what are your concerns with him when you saw him at the college level? Which is all anyone can really go off at the end of the day right?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Nonsense.
There are questions how his game will translate to the NFl.

As there is with EVERY college QB. Next...

There are questions about can he do more than 1 quick read and do his progressions.

He did it in college. The Air Raid is all about quick reads, it's fundamentally based on this.

There are questions concerning his ability to throw into tight windows.

There is tape of that, but from everything you are saying, I'm pretty sure you haven't watched any of it.

Does he have the presence of mind to know when to eat the ball instead of forcing the play.

LOL seriously? You haven't watched even a lick of Murray play if say this. He routinely avoids big hits. One of the sacks he took against Alabama he went down right when he was going to go down and avoided the hit.

There are questions concerning size and durability.

How many times has Murray been hurt? Why question his durability? Barry Sanders is about the same size.

There are question concerning his ability to handle adversity.

He hasn't faced much....that's true of anyone who has started 50 something games and only lost two.

There are questions concerning his "elusiveness'

There are questions whether you wear panties on a regular basis. Just because I say that, doesn't make it legitimate. What questions about his "elusiveness"? I can say I believe that Tom Brady's accuracy sucks, but you know, visual observation says I'm wrong. There are no questions about his elusiveness.

There are questions concerning his ability to perform in a NFl pocket.

He performed outstanding in the pocket at OU.

Will he be able to "shake off" a bad game or a streak of bad games.

We didn't know that about Andrew Luck really either.

Will he be able to handle the microscope that comes with being the #1 pick.

This can be said about the past 50 1st overall picks.

Those are not picking on Murray questions.many of those same questions are asked about all rookie QBs.

Fair enough.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This is getting truly tedious.

It is. It's literally the same arguments from 6 weeks ago.

I'm only debating because I enjoy debates.

 

[BW52]

You call it nonsense. But then give no criticism or dissection of his ACTUAL play on the field. You just listed a whole bunch of hypotheticals. Yes, we know he hasn't played in the NFL yet. But what are your concerns with him when you saw him at the college level? Which is all anyone can really go off at the end of the day right?

How his game translates to the NFL level is what matters.Why in the hell is that so hard to understand?So he whipped some ass in college...how is that going to freaking matter in the NFL?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Murray's choice seemed inevitable, or not. I don't really like college football, and I really don't like my Sooner in-laws. So I'm a pretty big loser here.

I watched the Alabama game cut-up and some of the Bedlam. I didn't see a guy who's revolutionizing the college game. I saw maybe an evolution from Mike Vick as a passer, but I didn't see the same impossible speed.

IMO, he looked like a better passer than Mike Vick, but not as good a runner. I know that Mike says otherwise today, but whatevs. I didn't see a guy who is going to change the way that football is played; I didn't even see the potential for that.

Thanks for responding, and that's interesting about your family. Someday perhaps you can tell us the entire story. I'd love to hear it.

Kerouac9, You'll never hear me say Murray will change football, I just hope he plays well.

Also, all reasonable Murray supporters will agree he might fail. MadCard had a post five or six pages back that summed up this sentiment pretty well, so I won't belabor the point.

Anyway, hope you have a good summer, and looking forward to your takes once the actual games start.

 

[dscher]

How his game translates to the NFL level is what matters.Why in the hell is that so hard to understand?So he whipped some ass in college...how is that going to freaking matter in the NFL?

You called his post nonsense. It was in regards to his actual play. What is nonsense about his actual play?

 

[BW52]

It is. It's literally the same arguments from 6 weeks ago.

I'm only debating because I enjoy debates.

I thought it was because of HUMAC.

 

[BW52]

You called his post nonsense. It was in regards to his actual play. What is nonsense about his actual play?

I stated my questions concerning his play translating to the NFL.If you don`t understand that then what can I say?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Lol.. it does look a little creepy now that I re-read it.

But honestly Ouchie, I'm just trying help Solar7 to work through this because he is obviously having a very difficult time with the pick.

Jesus that sounds creepy too.. lol okay.. I'll just stop trying to be a "unite-er" if it's going to cast me as Jim Jones wearing a #1 jersey.

Lol. I get it. No one is going to get onboard if they’ve hated the pick until their eyes tell them they have to relent.

 

[dscher]

I stated my questions concerning his play translating to the NFL.If you don`t understand that then what can I say?

Ok man. Disregard. Lol

 

[juza76]

Its pretty clear the anti Murray crew didnt watch the tapes but they stood on their position just because was their belief when the Murray name come up as an option for us

Im surprised about k9 , he is often well documented , giving us very interesting insights, he decide to take part of this discussion even if he claimed he hates college football and havent watched Murray videos expect few plays in the bowl game vs Alabama

 

[Solar7]

You call it nonsense. But then give no criticism or dissection of his ACTUAL play on the field. You just listed a whole bunch of hypotheticals. Yes, we know he hasn't played in the NFL yet. But what are your concerns with him when you saw him at the college level? Which is all anyone can really go off at the end of the day right?

Yeah, it's all anyone can go off of because he chose not to participate in any relevant drills or measurements.

And @Crimson Warrior, sorry man, not "giving Murray a chance" and pretending things are great until they're not. I'm sticking to my guns on all of the bad things I see, until someone proves me wrong. Just like the presidency. This was also my stance with Derek Anderson.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

he sucked so much that he lost his first starting job in college. Then, had one AMAZING season. Admittedly, but to try and argue he's a transcendent talent after one year, playing on an absolutely stacked team that collectively crapped the bed the first time they played a great team is ridiculous. As is completely ignoring the history of the game that size does have an impact as far as the QB position is considered.

Do any of those things means he's going to SUCK? ABSOLUTELY NOT. But to completely blow them off as legitimate concerns is burying your head so far in the sand that you've basically reached the Trench from Aquaman.

This Murray deraingment syndrome is hard to follow sometimes a simple Question for Everyone Here Pro and con If Luck and Murray were bothe in this Years draft Who would Have went No.1 My vote is Luck as I have extreme doubts about Murray and this Offense in General