Why keep TJ???

[Tangodnzr]

In doing some research on the internet today, I came across a site that, in discussing team needs in the upcoming draft, mentioned that KC might be a team that could have a use for TJ.
Things don't seem to be goint too totally rosy between Priest Holmes and the Chiefs. He is unhappy with his contract situation and has recently undergone some hip surgery.
As a result, these guys suggested that TJ might be someone that could fit the chiefs needs. He's the type runner that might fit well into their system.
As I thought about that....I would tend to agree.
Therefore, I think it might behoove the Cards to not be in any big hurry to cut TJ. They can keep him on the roster up until the season actually starts and they have to be down to their 53 man limit. By that time they should know if anyone like KC may indeed be interested in him. In the meantime, they basically take the official public stance that they still may keep him next year, even if he is unhappy.
Right now, I say they don't owe him much of anything. Screw cutting him early, giving him a chance to sign somewhere else for "nothing" for the Cards.
If the Holmes situation keeps detiorating and he has problems coming back from the hip problem.....they might be willing to give up something for him.

 

[blindseyed]

OR trade straight across..Priest for Jones. (Note the sarcasm)

 

[Stout]

I like the reasoning Tango. Why cut him before cutdowns start in training camp? Before then, like you said, we might get something for him if it looks like we may keep him. If not, cut him when we have to and move along-it costs us nothing. Granted, it won't give him enough time to search around through the teams to sign, but who cares? We're in this for us, not for how nice we can be to players who aren't going to be with us. Good post.

 

[az643dp]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
As a result, these guys suggested that TJ might be someone that could fit the chiefs needs. He's the type runner that might fit well into their system.

So their ideal back is one that falls down if someone sneezes? Adios Senor Jones! Have fun losing your balance elsewhere.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Re: Re: Why keep TJ???

Originally posted by az643dp
So their ideal back is one that falls down if someone sneezes? Adios Senor Jones! Have fun losing your balance elsewhere.

I think you are being a little overly melodramatic there. Granted TJ hasn't performed up to his expectations, but a cutsy little one- liner like that is not all that impressive. So tell me.....who was it you were trying to impress with your little ditty there????

TJ has talent, so far he may not have lived up to his potential, and a lot of that may have to do with his attitude. He is not a punishing between the tackles type runner, but he does have some explosiveness and receiving skills that aren't just dogmeat either.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I can't se the Cards doing Jones any favors after they caught him in a lie and they haven't had any contact with him for months.He probably will go somewhere and be a pretty god back,just like Garrison Hearst did.Last year at this time,we all loved Jones and had him down for 1300 yards and 10 TD's.Lack of a passing game and defense had alot to do with it but his attitude after the injury sure hurt him alot.

 

[AZCB34]

My stance has been that the Cards should shop Jones and get the best pick they can OR keep him all through camp as a fallback position. What happens is Shipp AND Smith were to go down with injury (remember we play preseason in MIN)? While I like Anderson and would hope he gets the nod, having TJ there would be a nice safety net.

Tango's thought of keeping him makes sense and maybe all this controversy surrounding him would actually flip on the internal light and he would finally get it.

As for TJ lying about his injury. It has never been proven, last I heard, he actually broke it in a bar brawl so we cannot say with any certainty it actually happened that way. The guys who Jones supposedly beat up had so many holes/errors in his story I have had trouble really believing him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by AZCB34
My stance has been that the Cards should shop Jones and get the best pick they can OR keep him all through camp as a fallback position. What happens is Shipp AND Smith were to go down with injury (remember we play preseason in MIN)? While I like Anderson and would hope he gets the nod, having TJ there would be a nice safety net.

Tango's thought of keeping him makes sense and maybe all this controversy surrounding him would actually flip on the internal light and he would finally get it.

As for TJ lying about his injury. It has never been proven, last I heard, he actually broke it in a bar brawl so we cannot say with any certainty it actually happened that way. The guys who Jones supposedly beat up had so many holes/errors in his story I have had trouble really believing him.

But Cubbie, do you actually believe Jones' story? I thought it was a b.s. lie the moment I heard it. The "beating up the barber at the club" story just makes much more sense. I've known plenty of people who have broken their hands in fights, but none answering phones.

 

[JasonKGME]

I have allways been in the camp that you have to keep TJ unless you get a trade offer, or he is beaten out by the other players in training camp. If he was scheduled to earn a butt load of cash I could see cutting him to help your cap, but when keeping him only counts $500K against the cap, you have to keep him.

 

[mizzoucardfan]

I have to agree with you Jason, the Cardinals are not here to accommodate T.J. If we can't get someone in trade for him then he stays and helps as the CARDINALS see fit. Otherwise he can sit out and not play football. ( Bob Ferguson would say flip hamburgers at McDonalds ) I beleive that he would have to show effort or hurt his chances with another team the following year even more.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
But Cubbie, do you actually believe Jones' story? I thought it was a b.s. lie the moment I heard it. The "beating up the barber at the club" story just makes much more sense. I've known plenty of people who have broken their hands in fights, but none answering phones.

My point is it doesn't matter what I believe since BOTH his story and the Barberguy's story's don't add up...either of them. So until proven otherwise, the assumption has to be he actually did it answering the phone. TJ has been seemingly injury-prone ever since he came to AZ so it wouldn't shock me in the slightest if he broke it answering the phone.

I do admit the circumstances surrounding his story are puzzling (since he didn't contact team doctors, his mom involved etc) but the story laid out by Barberguy has so many holes in it it doesn;t seem convincing either.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by AZCB34
My point is it doesn't matter what I believe since BOTH his story and the Barberguy's story's don't add up...either of them. So until proven otherwise, the assumption has to be he actually did it answering the phone. TJ has been seemingly injury-prone ever since he came to AZ so it wouldn't shock me in the slightest if he broke it answering the phone.

I do admit the circumstances surrounding his story are puzzling (since he didn't contact team doctors, his mom involved etc) but the story laid out by Barberguy has so many holes in it it doesn;t seem convincing either.

I honestly believe the barber guy.

TJ's story stunk from the moment he spewed it out. I think that the Cards new the "real" story about the barber guy long before any of us, since they refused to pay him for the rest of the year.

Either way, Jones is and was lieing about the incident, as was his mother. I would love to see the team hold on to him until the last roster cutdown, and cut him loose. That would hurt his chances of landing with another team, and I honestly don't think he deserves any courtesy from the team or fans.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I honestly believe the barber guy.

TJ's story stunk from the moment he spewed it out. I think that the Cards new the "real" story about the barber guy long before any of us, since they refused to pay him for the rest of the year.

Either way, Jones is and was lieing about the incident, as was his mother. I would love to see the team hold on to him until the last roster cutdown, and cut him loose. That would hurt his chances of landing with another team, and I honestly don't think he deserves any courtesy from the team or fans.

So what happens if both Emmitt and Shipp get hurt in preseason? Do you keep TJ if you are hanging onto him all camp? This is the only reason I hang onto him and in that instance I would go with Anderson/Scobey.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by AZCB34
So what happens if both Emmitt and Shipp get hurt in preseason? Do you keep TJ if you are hanging onto him all camp? This is the only reason I hang onto him and in that instance I would go with Anderson/Scobey.

Hey we could, as some other posters have suggested, play TJ the bulk of the preseason to keep everyone fresh (well, play him Scobey, Anderson, and Prentice!)

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Hey we could, as some other posters have suggested, play TJ the bulk of the preseason to keep everyone fresh (well, play him Scobey, Anderson, and Prentice!)

Maybe the team shouldn't care about him but is that really the best thing for the team...both on the field and in the eye of potential future free agents? Almost a "You screwed us so we are going to screw you." attitude. I think that would be seriously counter-productive.

But my question still stands. Let's assume that Emmitt and Shipp both go down in preseason. Would you still keep TJ at that point since clearly there are those who feel we should keep him all the way through camp?

 

[BACH]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Let's assume that Emmitt and Shipp both go down in preseason. Would you still keep TJ at that point since clearly there are those who feel we should keep him all the way through camp?

Sure, keep him. We need a 3rd stringer behind Anderson and Scobey...

 

[Tangodnzr]

There have been some good points made here all around.

Jason brought up a very good point, I think, in that he said it would only cost the Cards 500 k to keep TJ.

I double checked his cap figures. If on the team he would draw a 459.000 base salary which would have to be added to the cap.
If they cut him, he is still due a 1,425,000 signing bonus. If they cut him after June first they could defer half of that to next year if they wanted to.
Sooo......As Jason pointed out, keeping him on the roster would cost the Cards 500,000. Regardless of how much of a bust some may say....I'd say keeping him at that figure is a good buy.

Who knows, if he did stay, and knew coming into camp knowing that he was no longer "my shitte don't stink Jones" , Boston being gone, so they wouldn't be feeding off each other attitude-wise....maybe he finally gets smart enough to quit blaming everyone else for where he's at (or not at), and works his way back into the lineup.

A lot of what happens really may be determined by his attitude.
Its going to be interesting to see what does happen with him.
One way or the other.

My guess is there is no lock on anything right now, as far as he's concerned.

 

[mdsisquo]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
In doing some research on the internet today, I came across a site that, in discussing team needs in the upcoming draft, mentioned that KC might be a team that could have a use for TJ.
Things don't seem to be goint too totally rosy between Priest Holmes and the Chiefs. He is unhappy with his contract situation and has recently undergone some hip surgery.
As a result, these guys suggested that TJ might be someone that could fit the chiefs needs. He's the type runner that might fit well into their system.
As I thought about that....I would tend to agree.
Therefore, I think it might behoove the Cards to not be in any big hurry to cut TJ. They can keep him on the roster up until the season actually starts and they have to be down to their 53 man limit. By that time they should know if anyone like KC may indeed be interested in him. In the meantime, they basically take the official public stance that they still may keep him next year, even if he is unhappy.
Right now, I say they don't owe him much of anything. Screw cutting him early, giving him a chance to sign somewhere else for "nothing" for the Cards.
If the Holmes situation keeps detiorating and he has problems coming back from the hip problem.....they might be willing to give up something for him.

Sorry if something like this has been posted, because I have not read the entire thread.

But here is why keeping TJ makes no sense. Right now we have 2 backs that are GUARANTEED to make the roster. Smith and Shipp. That leave only 1 other space available. If we keep jones he must stay on the active roster otherwise someone WILL take him from us before he clears waivers to go on the practice squad. We have 2 other backs the coaches are high on in Scobey and Anderson. Right now we let both of them duke it out for the 3rd spot, keep the winner and send the other to the practice squad and hope he clears waivers. Or we could keep both if we decided to go with 4 rbs on the final roster. It all comes down to, do you want to lose a talented RB who could be here for several more years who the coaches are high on and still wants to be here (Scobey/Anderson) or do you keep a RB (Jones) who you know will be gone next year no matter what because he is mad at our coaching staff for benching him and not paying him, and lose out on the other two RB's who have a brighter future in AZ?

That is why we cut TJ. I'm all for keeping him until the last second to see if we can get anything for him. But one way or another we need to cut him.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
A lot of what happens really may be determined by his attitude.
Its going to be interesting to see what does happen with him.
One way or the other.

This is going to be a huge factor for him...his attitude. His attitude thus far has gotten him into some trouble but if he comes in focused and ready to go, I have no problem keeping him around...especially if Shipp and/or Smith go down. Would like to have NFL experience there. The Cards can only go with untested players for so long. I hope this experience changes his attitude and makes him appreciate what he has and maybe he can come in and show he is changed.

mdsisquo: I agree with what you are saying in general. I think it would be a mistake for the Cards to lose Anderson and/or Scobey but there is just this nagging feeling that one of our top 2 RBs is going to go down this year and that is when Jones may be nice to have around. Likely he is going to be cut but I don't think it is clear cut since I believe both Scobey and Anderson are eligible for practice squad one more year.

 

[Alphaman]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
In doing some research on the internet today, I came across a site that, in discussing team needs in the upcoming draft, mentioned that KC might be a team that could have a use for TJ.
Things don't seem to be goint too totally rosy between Priest Holmes and the Chiefs. He is unhappy with his contract situation and has recently undergone some hip surgery.
As a result, these guys suggested that TJ might be someone that could fit the chiefs needs. He's the type runner that might fit well into their system.
If the Holmes situation keeps detiorating and he has problems coming back from the hip problem.....they might be willing to give up something for him.

Chiefs fan here. The problem with this theory as it pertains to the Chiefs is that they will fill their backup RB before camp begins in July. They just had Olandis Gary in. I do think the Chiefs could and should offer AZ a 7th round pick for TJ, but if AZ wants to play the waiting game, the Chiefs will move on without him.

 

[Stout]

Re: Re: Why keep TJ???

Originally posted by mdsisquo
Sorry if something like this has been posted, because I have not read the entire thread.

But here is why keeping TJ makes no sense. Right now we have 2 backs that are GUARANTEED to make the roster. Smith and Shipp. That leave only 1 other space available. If we keep jones he must stay on the active roster otherwise someone WILL take him from us before he clears waivers to go on the practice squad. We have 2 other backs the coaches are high on in Scobey and Anderson. Right now we let both of them duke it out for the 3rd spot, keep the winner and send the other to the practice squad and hope he clears waivers. Or we could keep both if we decided to go with 4 rbs on the final roster. It all comes down to, do you want to lose a talented RB who could be here for several more years who the coaches are high on and still wants to be here (Scobey/Anderson) or do you keep a RB (Jones) who you know will be gone next year no matter what because he is mad at our coaching staff for benching him and not paying him, and lose out on the other two RB's who have a brighter future in AZ?

That is why we cut TJ. I'm all for keeping him until the last second to see if we can get anything for him. But one way or another we need to cut him.

Sure, eventually that's why you have to cut TJ if we can't work out a deal, but why do it now? Keep him around, hold the cards close and try to deal him. Then cut him during cutdown time in training camp. Or, if our top 2 guys get injured in camp, he's an insurance policy. If you cut him now, we're guaranteed not to get anything out of the deal.

 

[ajcardfan]

Tango,

Since TJ is in the last year of his deal, his signing bonus can't be spread out over two years if he's cut after June 1. We either pay him the 459K, or cut him and clear it. It doesn't matter when it happens.

I don't think anything will happen with TJ until after the draft. They'll try to shop him until the draft, and I think they'll make the most calls trying to unload him during the draft to teams that would like a RB but haven't picked one up yet. If a deal happens for Jones, I think it'll be on Day 2, from rounds 5-7. If we don't deal him by then, the decision will become "cut or keep him". I think he has to be cut myself.

 

[Houdini]

Who has the least trade value of former 1st round running backs taken in the same draft, Ron Dayne or Thomas Jones? I can't see many teams willing to give up much for either one, especially when interested teams can probably get at least one of them dirt cheap. Both have similar stats. If Dayne is available, it might drive the price for Jones even lower, or vice versa depending which back teams like less. The fact that 2 backs are available might make it harder for the Giants or Cardinals to get anything for them.

 

[az643dp]

Re: Re: Re: Why keep TJ???

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
I think you are being a little overly melodramatic there. Granted TJ hasn't performed up to his expectations, but a cutsy little one- liner like that is not all that impressive. So tell me.....who was it you were trying to impress with your little ditty there????

Damn Tango...Isn't it obvious? I was trying to impress you with my "little ditty", couldn't you tell?

It just bugs me that a back that had so much hype could fall down so easily. The fluke of all flukes happened in Seattle when Tj had a good game. Thomas Jones is loser of a running back that would be a major cancer for any teams locker room. TJ and David Boston can go screw themselves for all I care. They are all in it for themselves. They did a fantastic job at letting all of their teammates down. Boston was pouting on the sidelines during the San Diego game while the game was still in reach. TJ gets in a fight and lies through his teeth about it. He even tried to get his mom to cover for him.

They are two big "Me Players" that I want nothing to do with. Hopefully Boston and TJ will find out quickly that being a "me player" will not work for them. When TJ is finally out of here, I will sit back and watch him and David destroy their respective teams chemistry. Good riddance David and TJ. Take your attitude elsewhere.

 

[az643dp]

If you can't trade TJ (Which is the most likely scenario) the cut his butt at the last minute. He screws you...you screw him back a year later. Isn't retribution great?