Why It’s a Risk to Hire a Coach With a Losing Record

Harry

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When you’ve never won, you’ve never faced the problems you face with a winning team. They are unique. Too many times this season the Cards have shown up not motivated to attack from the first kickoff. The coaches game prep has to include getting the players focused and revved up. Kingsbury has never had to do this with a winning team and he apparently has no clue how to do it. I’m willing to wait until season’s end, but if he’s staying there would be significant changes to the staff. A highly experienced assistant head coach would be hired. Preferably an older coach with no aspirations to be head coach. An offensive coordinator would be brought in. Kingsbury could pick him. Finally an aggressive defensive coordinator would be hired. Lastly I want a real QB coach. If Murray can’t handle learning technique, like how the pocket works, maybe he needs to play baseball. Frankly, without Hopkins, Murray has been far from dominant. They pointed out before the game he’s only thrown 1 TD pass when Hopkins wasn’t on the field. There’s no question Murray has improved but I’m concerned he now thinks he’s got the job mastered.

I fear Kingsbury is one of those coaches who thinks it’s up to the players to show up motivated. History says that doesn’t work. Jimmy Johnson just said he worked harder when his team was going to play a weak team. Do you think Kingsbury understands that? Finally I’ve had coaches tell me the deeper into the season, especially if you’re winning, you become a target and so you must guard against complacency. So far Kingsbury has failed in this regard as well.
 

dscher

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The target and hence complacency felt real today for sure and the guys seem to not care. Even though I'm no KK apologist, I can't stand hearing about grown men who have played the sport for decades wouldn't feel this and take self accountability. I think we have a bunch of role players on the field with no leaders out there to build guys up. We're missing JJ Watts big time in this capacity imo. Maybe we just don't have enough 'dogs'. It's definitely felt like this the past few weeks.
 

Jetstream Green

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Unless you are in the locker room, you have no freaking clue about any motivational aspects... who's the blame from if it's the players or the coach
 

GatorAZ

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Kliff had a poor winning % even by Texas Tech standards. His agent is a GD miracle worker. Even though we’re about to choke once again down the stretch I won’t rip Bidwill for the hire because it was not your typical good ole boy network hire. I was intrigued at the time.
 

ajcardfan

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Kliff had a poor winning % even by Texas Tech standards. His agent is a GD miracle worker. Even though we’re about to choke once again down the stretch I won’t rip Bidwill for the hire because it was not your typical good ole boy network hire. I was intrigued at the time.
Since 2010 the four coaches at Tech had win percentages of .294, .351, .301 and .250. (FUN FACT: one of those coaches is currently a US Senator!) The .351 belongs to Kingsbury.

Why in the hell does anyone want to coach at Texas Tech? They simply cannot compete in recruiting.
 

Buckybird

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Harry I’d say this tell the story of Kliff. Fast starts, poor finishes! Imo that’s clearly a HC issue, particularly when its 10 years in a row! Think about that...10 YEARS IN A ROW!!! Lol. This list doesn’t even include this season with a 7-0 start, a 3-5 failure down the stretch, with a possible 4-6 finish that might be a 3-7 finish! Wow

Time to call a spade a spade & move on. The history doesn’t lie.
 

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Red on White

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Generally speaking you'd have your best players available early in the season but then get banged up later.

Is that Kliff's issue? That with all the best talent available he's very good at letting them strut their stuff, gives them scope to make plays and show off their skills.

However when the line up is reduced and we rely on the underlying scheme and system rather than personnel we're found wanting?
 

Stout

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Generally speaking you'd have your best players available early in the season but then get banged up later.

Is that Kliff's issue? That with all the best talent available he's very good at letting them strut their stuff, gives them scope to make plays and show off their skills.

However when the line up is reduced and we rely on the underlying scheme and system rather than personnel we're found wanting?
This doesn't track, as teams like Green Bay would also be suffering record-wise due to injuries and covid protocols.
 

az jam

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KK is a smart person and IMO a good OC. However, he is not a good HC. There is big difference as the HC is in charge of the entire team and makes the game time decisions which includes adjustments. KK is absolutely terrible in managing the game. USC hired him to be their OC, they knew what they were doing.
 

TheCardFan

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He has a winning record this year, so there goes that theory.

FWIW - he didn't have a losing season last year either.

He has proven he can win in the NFL - who cares about college now?

In fact, he is only the 4th Cardinals Head Coach since 1948 to win 10 games (72 years).
 

slanidrac16

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I cannot understand a professional athlete going out and performing in front of 60,000 fans, family and friends in the stadium along with millions more on tv needing a coach to motivate him.
I can understand players being unhappy with a game plan or more so teammates not being held accountable.
Players aren’t stupid. Rarely will they throw a teammate under the bus. But I have to believe when players continue to get supported even when underperforming it’s got to take a toll.
 

cardpa

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He has a winning record this year, so there goes that theory.

FWIW - he didn't have a losing season last year either.

He has proven he can win in the NFL - who cares about college now?

In fact, he is only the 4th Cardinals Head Coach since 1948 to win 10 games (72 years).
The core of this thread seems to have passed you by. It's about the second half nosedives that have been his MO since he's been a HC regardess of level. He had a winning season at TT too but it still came with a second half dive.
 

Stout

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He has a winning record this year, so there goes that theory.

FWIW - he didn't have a losing season last year either.

He has proven he can win in the NFL - who cares about college now?

In fact, he is only the 4th Cardinals Head Coach since 1948 to win 10 games (72 years).
Uh, no. Winning in the NFL isn't getting over .500. Winning in the NFL isn't crapping the bed in 5 straight playoff-clinching games--one against a 1-win Lions team--and relying on losing your division lead to back into the playoffs with the Rams beating the Vikings. Winning isn't finally squeaking into the playoffs in your 3rd year. Wow, do we ever have a different definition than "winning."

Show me a playoff run, and I'll say he finally won something.
 

cardpa

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When you’ve never won, you’ve never faced the problems you face with a winning team. They are unique. Too many times this season the Cards have shown up not motivated to attack from the first kickoff. The coaches game prep has to include getting the players focused and revved up. Kingsbury has never had to do this with a winning team and he apparently has no clue how to do it. I’m willing to wait until season’s end, but if he’s staying there would be significant changes to the staff. A highly experienced assistant head coach would be hired. Preferably an older coach with no aspirations to be head coach. An offensive coordinator would be brought in. Kingsbury could pick him. Finally an aggressive defensive coordinator would be hired. Lastly I want a real QB coach. If Murray can’t handle learning technique, like how the pocket works, maybe he needs to play baseball. Frankly, without Hopkins, Murray has been far from dominant. They pointed out before the game he’s only thrown 1 TD pass when Hopkins wasn’t on the field. There’s no question Murray has improved but I’m concerned he now thinks he’s got the job mastered.

I fear Kingsbury is one of those coaches who thinks it’s up to the players to show up motivated. History says that doesn’t work. Jimmy Johnson just said he worked harder when his team was going to play a weak team. Do you think Kingsbury understands that? Finally I’ve had coaches tell me the deeper into the season, especially if you’re winning, you become a target and so you must guard against complacency. So far Kingsbury has failed in this regard as well.
This is true at any level of sports. Getting a team to focus and play at a level they are capable of is much harder when the opponent is weak. I think your post is spot on.
 

TheCardFan

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The core of this thread seems to have passed you by. It's about the second half nosedives that have been his MO since he's been a HC regardess of level. He had a winning season at TT too but it still came with a second half dive.

Who cares about the thread topic? It's irrelevant. We are talking about a HC that has improved each year (1 losing season out of 3), 10 wins, playoffs, top 10 scoring offenses, etc.

Again, you would rather have won 3, lost 2, won 1, lost 2 vs 7-0 and then 3-5. I get it but the end result is what matters most.

Progress...playoffs.
 

TheCardFan

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Uh, no. Winning in the NFL isn't getting over .500. Winning in the NFL isn't crapping the bed in 5 straight playoff-clinching games--one against a 1-win Lions team--and relying on losing your division lead to back into the playoffs with the Rams beating the Vikings. Winning isn't finally squeaking into the playoffs in your 3rd year. Wow, do we ever have a different definition than "winning."

Show me a playoff run, and I'll say he finally won something.

You have to have done some pretty good things to lose 3 in a row and still make the playoffs with 2 games to go.

10 wins and most likely the 5th seed is not squeaking into the playoffs BTW. We also have an opportunity to win the division. We are 4-1 so far.

You have been a fan for a long time. This will be the 5th time we have made the playoffs since you have been on ASFN and the 6th time we have made the playoffs since the Cardinals have been in Arizona. You are forgetting about all the success we have had this year and acting like we are a 5 win team. Outside of the last 3 games, this has been one of the most enjoyable seasons I can ever remember being a Cardinals fan. I am more hopeful about this team continuing to win than most of my life following this team. I appreciate that and want it to get even better. Did any of us expect the Super Bowl this year? I think its a real possibility next year.
 
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Harry

Harry

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I’ve already indicated I’d move on, however using the college results is deceptive. College schedules often have several non-conference patsies at the beginning of the season. So the early records are often deceptive. Also, especially in high school & college, momentum is a powerful force. You can sometimes pickup us an early win or 2 based on momentum. Motivation and self-confidence can help teams play above their ability.
 

BullheadCardFan

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Also, especially in high school & college, momentum is a powerful force. You can sometimes pickup us an early win or 2 based on momentum. Motivation and self-confidence can help teams play above their ability.
Agree and at this time we have zero momentum
 

Stout

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You have to have done some pretty good things to lose 3 in a row and still make the playoffs with 2 games to go.

10 wins and most likely the 5th seed is not squeaking into the playoffs BTW. We also have an opportunity to win the division. We are 4-1 so far.

You have been a fan for a long time. This will be the 5th time we have made the playoffs since you have been on ASFN and the 6th time we have made the playoffs since the Cardinals have been in Arizona. You are forgetting about all the success we have had this year and acting like we are a 5 win team. Outside of the last 3 games, this has been one of the most enjoyable seasons I can ever remember being a Cardinals fan. I am more hopeful about this team continuing to win than most of my life following this team. I appreciate that and want it to get even better. Did any of us expect the Super Bowl this year? I think its a real possibility next year.
What you're basically saying is that a man who has crawled through and survived a desert should be content with a cup of water. We as a fan base have been so abused by lack of quality that this single cup of water will taste great. Trouble is, we're getting a small, very tepid cup of water with a real threat of no more hydration. I want a freaking water fountain instead.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Who cares about the thread topic? It's irrelevant. We are talking about a HC that has improved each year (1 losing season out of 3), 10 wins, playoffs, top 10 scoring offenses, etc.

Again, you would rather have won 3, lost 2, won 1, lost 2 vs 7-0 and then 3-5. I get it but the end result is what matters most.

Progress...playoffs.
This ostrich-like action is what enables the bidwills to keep underperforming GMs and coaches for too long. Congrats on being a cog in their machine.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You have to have done some pretty good things to lose 3 in a row and still make the playoffs with 2 games to go.

10 wins and most likely the 5th seed is not squeaking into the playoffs BTW. We also have an opportunity to win the division. We are 4-1 so far.

You have been a fan for a long time. This will be the 5th time we have made the playoffs since you have been on ASFN and the 6th time we have made the playoffs since the Cardinals have been in Arizona. You are forgetting about all the success we have had this year and acting like we are a 5 win team. Outside of the last 3 games, this has been one of the most enjoyable seasons I can ever remember being a Cardinals fan. I am more hopeful about this team continuing to win than most of my life following this team. I appreciate that and want it to get even better. Did any of us expect the Super Bowl this year? I think its a real possibility next year.
Wow. Just wow.
 

cardpa

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Who cares about the thread topic? It's irrelevant. We are talking about a HC that has improved each year (1 losing season out of 3), 10 wins, playoffs, top 10 scoring offenses, etc.

Again, you would rather have won 3, lost 2, won 1, lost 2 vs 7-0 and then 3-5. I get it but the end result is what matters most.

Progress...playoffs.
Actually two non winning seasons and one winning season. Playoff bound because of other teams losing/winning games, not getting in on your own merit. Unable to keep control your own destiny which at one time you held in your hand. We may not agree, but I have to admire your positivity. Question, would you still feel the same if they end up losing out in the final two games and go into the playoffs on a 5 game losing streak?
 
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