Why I don't want Durant

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Well then it should have been easy for you to shrug off my accusation. But, I'll admit that I was wrong here, and hopefully we can move on. I apologize for failing to regard your perspective as fully individual.




This is one of our big disagreements. I don't put any stock at all in Durant's claims to be hungry, and even less in the take of league talking heads, who as we all know are ignorant.

I've seen nothing over Durant's long career to suggest that he's capable of finding a higher motivation gear. And I think it's folly to believe, never mind assume, that he'll be transformed into SuperDurant if he gets his way and joins the Suns.

I'm also much more concerned about his injury history than you are. Achilles ruptures have a pretty bad track record, as detailed here: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/kevin-durant-looks-like-himself-again/ Now, the two worst cases on that list, Bryant and Billups, both suffered the injury in their mid-30s, so Durant has a potential advantage there. And some of the players were never stars, or all that fluid, in the first place.

The best comparison is probably Dominique Wilkins, who tore his Achilles at age 32. When he came back, his numbers were as good as ever for two seasons, until age 35, when he started to fall off rather precipitously. So it starts to become a question of counting months on the calendar and hoping to get lucky.

I'm pretty sure that, over the years, you've joined the chorus on this board of questioning Durant's heart and making fun of his inept handling of celebrity. But maybe I'm misremembering. Either way, I'm far from the only one who thinks that Durant is a headcase.

And it's telling how, over the last week or so, the pro-Durant crowd has shifted from "Durant is awesome and will give us what we need" to "Eh, we're screwed no matter what, so we might as well gamble on a miracle." I mean, that's not exactly a vote of confidence. So the question isn't really so much the upside of getting Durant, but the downside of whatever the alternative is. And I'm less despondent than most about the alternatives.
Thank you.

We do disagree about his hunger. I don’t think he’s a hair’s breadth from beating the bucks in 2021 if he wasn’t hungry. Nor do I think he pushes out of Brooklyn if he wasn’t.

And I heard a couple guys on the radio bring up a good - and what I believe to be a salient - point. Durant isn’t a leader. Never has been. What he is a fantastic basketball player. So when he’s left with other great ball players but not leaders (see Russ and kyrie) his teams underperform. But when he’s paired with terrific players who are also leaders (see warriors) he elevates. Because he’s only looked upon to be a great player, not needed to be a great leader. I think the suns provide that in Paul, and I think Booker is learning it.

The injury definitely worries me. But at some point you have to take risks. I don’t see this type of opportunity coming round for a team in the foreseeable future - there is no colangelo to generate them - so I think you gotta take your shot when the rare opportunity presents itself. Understand. This wasn’t my first line of thinking. I’d been geared for a long haul approach with all our youth. But with Ayton’s likely departure and Paul’s age I’ve changed my perspective.

And I have DEFINITELY been a harsh critic of durants heart. But again I don’t think it’s as big an issue when he’s in a team with a top shelf leader. So I’m not as concerned with Paul and book. We’ve seen how he rises to the occasion with a talented team with leadership.

And I haven’t really shifted. I’m even levels of stoked about adding someone of durants talent and ability and realistic to recognize absent that trade we fade back to non contender status. It’s the combination the two that convinced me we have to take our shot now.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Durant's health, age, contract and desire are real concerns. If Ayton is gone anyway its likely worth the gamble if we are only losing Ayton and a couple picks.

But the idea of sending Ayton, Bridges, possibly Cam and 4-5 unprotected first round pics makes it not worth the gamble. I'm pretty sure the suns brass feel the same, otherwise this trade would be done.

Does anyone here think trading (Ayton, Bridges possibly Cam and 4-5 unprotected first round pics) for KD and a back up or two is a good deal?
No. Not for all that. I don’t think a single poster has supported that package.
 

Mainstreet

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I'm not sure why there isn't more conversation about Deandre Ayton when the free agency moratorium ends tomorrow.

Maybe it even ends later tonight using Eastern time.
 
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elindholm

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I'm not sure why there isn't more conversation about Deandre Ayton when the free agency moratorium ends tomorrow.
I agree, it's weird. Basically, other teams are doing the Suns a favor by not working out a deal with Ayton and forcing the Suns into a quick decision on Durant (or anyone else).
 

Folster

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I agree, it's weird. Basically, other teams are doing the Suns a favor by not working out a deal with Ayton and forcing the Suns into a quick decision on Durant (or anyone else).
Who has a max cap space and wants to give it to Ayton?
 
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elindholm

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Who has a max cap space and wants to give it to Ayton?
Who says it has to be max space? Ayton's agent has to see the writing on the wall by now. If Ayton wants to leave Phoenix, it's looking like he'll have to settle for less.
 

cheesebeef

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Who says it has to be max space? Ayton's agent has to see the writing on the wall by now. If Ayton wants to leave Phoenix, it's looking like he'll have to settle for less.
Even if it's not MAX, his agent and Ayton are still probably looking for 25 million for starters. Who has that amount of cap space?
 

Germz249

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If nothing happens by COB tomorrow then I don’t want him.. shouldn’t be dragging on this long. We need to move on and quit wasting time.
 

Mainstreet

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I agree, it's weird. Basically, other teams are doing the Suns a favor by not working out a deal with Ayton and forcing the Suns into a quick decision on Durant (or anyone else).
Who has a max cap space and wants to give it to Ayton?

I believe the Spurs are a team that still has cap space. Of course there may be sign-and-trade options for Ayton.
 

Joe Mama

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And I can only speak for myself, but my expectations were high (though not that high) with the shaq acquisition not because I thought we were getting superstar shaq, but because I thought we were getting the first adequate center that amare would ever play with. Whereas with Durant I’m excited not only about how it will open up book, but because we would be getting superstar Durant.
That team what is a lot of fun to watch… on office. Offensively the trio of Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, and the older, fatter Shaquille O'Neal was one of the worst pick and roll defenses imaginable.

While I think it's more likely than not that deAndre Ayton will be playing for another team next year, I think I disagree that it's a forgone conclusion. I also believe that this team could be even better next year with improvements from DA, bridges, cam Johnson, cam payne and even Booker.

Joe
 

GatorAZ

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JCSunsfan

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Even if it's not MAX, his agent and Ayton are still probably looking for 25 million for starters. Who has that amount of cap space?
I always say that during free agency, and then some team manages to manufacture cap space out of thin air.
 

JCSunsfan

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I believe the Spurs are a team that still has cap space. Of course there may be sign-and-trade options for Ayton.
I am not sure Ayton is a Spurs type of player. If a team has to do a sign and trade, the Suns are in the driver's seat--unless JJ just plain does not want Ayton anymore.
 

Mainstreet

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I always say that during free agency, and then some team manages to manufacture cap space out of thin air.

There are probably only 2-3 teams that can do it though. Maybe the Spurs, Pacers and someone else I'm forgetting.

There are more sign-and-trade options.
 

Yuma

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My youngest has a haircut like the guy on the right, who has the hat on. People always calling him Peaky Blinders now.
 

cheesebeef

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That’s like the third or fourth name for us.

There’s “the cool bros”, “the bully brothers”… and I think two others. Cool bros is my favorite.
 

SunsFanFirst

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Never got an explanation why I was banned for this and how it broke the rules? When you do that you literally tell me you are just censoring anything you disagree with. You went straight to ban.. no “knock it off” or something of the like first. Is “clown world” a potty word or something? You literally cannot honestly discuss Kyrie’s situation without discussing the legitimacy of the politics that are/were at play. They literally let him in the building but for some reason he put everyone at risk if he played. Its insane and for people to put that on Kyrie is even more insane.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Never got an explanation why I was banned for this and how it broke the rules? When you do that you literally tell me you are just censoring anything you disagree with. You went straight to ban.. no “knock it off” or something of the like first. Is “clown world” a potty word or something? You literally cannot honestly discuss Kyrie’s situation without discussing the legitimacy of the politics that are/were at play. They literally let him in the building but for some reason he put everyone at risk if he played. Its insane and for people to put that on Kyrie is even more insane.

Read the board rules. No politics.

Also, complaining will only earn you another ban.
 

TRW

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Never got an explanation why I was banned for this and how it broke the rules? When you do that you literally tell me you are just censoring anything you disagree with. You went straight to ban.. no “knock it off” or something of the like first. Is “clown world” a potty word or something? You literally cannot honestly discuss Kyrie’s situation without discussing the legitimacy of the politics that are/were at play. They literally let him in the building but for some reason he put everyone at risk if he played. Its insane and for people to put that on Kyrie is even more insane.
Hey, at least you were told. I just woke up one morning, got the “oops there is a problem. You were banned” message. LOL. Don’t know by who but I did figure out why. Mia culpa on my violation.
 
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