Why are the Cardinals still considered Cheap?

[thephoenixson28]

They gave big pay days to Dockett,Fitz,Cambell,Washington, gave Kolb a big pay day without paying a down for the Cardinals. Whiz being one of the top highest paid coaches.


If anything they don't know how to spend there money, but as far as being cheap it's a long shot, at least the last 4-5 years.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Maybe it's because they refuse to sign players during the season when injuries pile up, that are capable of winning games.

 

[Cheesebeef]

and because I believe they're still sitting on 7 million dollars in cap room... in a year where they had a rash of injuries and filled those spots with practice squaders... and because they've done nothing to resign Kerry Rhodes... and because two years ago they sat on 30 million dollars in cap room.

 

[Jetstream Green]

They gave big pay days to Dockett,Fitz,Cambell,Washington, gave Kolb a big pay day without paying a down for the Cardinals. Whiz being one of the top highest paid coaches.


If anything they don't know how to spend there money, but as far as being cheap it's a long shot, at least the last 4-5 years.

I go with the "they do not know how to spend money Bob for the trip for two and the washer and dryer", I would not call a franchise cheap comparing the amount they did not do in relation to the load of cash they have spent on some of our guys now and if I remember correctly....Whis is in the top ten of coaches salary in professional sport. The load of cash Bradley is sitting on for doing nothing I think proves that. I know the whole Whis salary shocked the hell out of me when I believe I read that in Forbes. About ten years ago, they were cheap but I would not call them that now. I think frugal is a more appropriate word for worst case scenario LOL

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I go with the "they do not know how to spend money Bob for the trip for two and the washer and dryer", I would not call a franchise cheap comparing the amount they did not do in relation to the load of cash they have spent on some of our guys now and if I remember correctly....Whis is in the top ten of coaches salary in professional sport. The load of cash Bradley is sitting on for doing nothing I think proves that. I know the whole Whis salary shocked the hell out of me when I believe I read that in Forbes. About ten years ago, they were cheap but I would not call them that now. I think frugal is a more appropriate word for worst case scenario LOL

Agreed. They need to spend more wisely. When you need a major upgrade at OG and three of the best are on the FA market, you don't waste money on a guy like Adam Snyder. It's almost strange. It seems the Cards are willing to overpay for bad talent, see Bradley, Snyder, Joey Porter, yet have a hard time ponying up for good talent. Fitz, Warner, Dansby, and CC all were either allowed to hit the market or were tagged. They kept them all but they were all reluctant deals if you judge by the Cards actions.

 

[conraddobler]

Agreed. They need to spend more wisely. When you need a major upgrade at OG and three of the best are on the FA market, you don't waste money on a guy like Adam Snyder. It's almost strange. It seems the Cards are willing to overpay for bad talent, see Bradley, Snyder, Joey Porter, yet have a hard time ponying up for good talent. Fitz, Warner, Dansby, and CC all were either allowed to hit the market or were tagged. They kept them all but they were all reluctant deals if you judge by the Cards actions.

A possible avenue of exploration to explain some of this odd behavior would be to look at how the contracts are structured.

IMO it's possible the high end signings are more rare or kept to a set amount because they usually require huge upfront amounts.

Signing someone over the hill or not as in demand might allow you to spend the money over the contract and not front load bonus money.

It goes to how the teams cash flow works, they get money in chunks every year but they probably don't have a ton of cash to just pay out bonuses.

Just a possible theory that explains that type of thing.

 

[az jam]

I know that Mr B is very frugal. He wouldn't allow Denny Green to buy any new office furniture. It was a real joke with the media.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

I know that Mr B is very frugal. He wouldn't allow Denny Green to buy any new office furniture. It was a real joke with the media.

Maybe he just didn't want Denny's ****** busting it up.

 

[JeffGollin]

OK Let's Pretend You Own an NFL Team...

Your family owns the Cardinals and has a gazillion dollars which they earned the hard way, by pinching pennies growing out of the Great Depression.

You're the son of the owner and have taken over as the team's major decision-maker, but also rely on a staff of professionals to provide expert advice. You've been raised to have a healthy respect for a buck, but have come to realize that your more successful competitors aren't afraid to overspend on talent or take calculated risks on a few boom or bust players.

But you're not always sure when to "hold 'em or fold 'em" (though there are plenty of media types, cocktail party friends and members of your own franchise who are ready to offer plenty of unasked-for advice).

So what do you do?

I think Michael B is still learning how to make the transition from mom 'n pop organization to a modern, well-run operation without risking the store. It's a story going on before our very eyes that we'd be well-advised to pay more attention to.

 

[kerouac9]

Old criticisms and slights die hard. Check out this cool story about how The Red Cross is still trying to shake off a rumor from WWII about GIs paying for donuts--http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/07/13/156723516/episode-386-the-cost-of-free-doughnuts

The Cards aren't a cheap organization now. They've spent money, they've just done it stupidly a lot of times. It used to be that the Cards would make one "big" free agent signing (Dexter Jackson, Edgerrin James, Duane Starks, and then call it a day while two or three of their own free agents left town.

That's not the case anymore. If we could stop throwing money at guys like Stewart Bradley and Adam Snyder, that would be the next step.

 

[Bodha]

Cardinals FO arent cheap.


They are stupid and horrible managers of a football team. Cardinals are the least sustainable team in the NFL because the FO is inept in player scouting, management, development and talent assessment.

90% is due to Whiz and Rod Graves.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Cardinals FO arent cheap.


They are stupid and horrible managers of a football team. Cardinals are the least sustainable team in the NFL because the FO is inept in player scouting, management, development and talent assessment.

90% is due to Whiz and Rod Graves.

It can always be worse.

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[Jetstream Green]

Cardinals FO arent cheap.


They are stupid and horrible managers of a football team. Cardinals are the least sustainable team in the NFL because the FO is inept in player scouting, management, development and talent assessment.

90% is due to Whiz and Rod Graves.

I would argue that they are the most sustainable team in the history of sports. The oldest professional football team and even with its horrid history of being a mediocre team, they are STILL around. Silver bullets and stakes through the hearts of their fans cannot kill this franchise.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Your family owns the Cardinals and has a gazillion dollars which they earned the hard way, by pinching pennies growing out of the Great Depression.

You're the son of the owner and have taken over as the team's major decision-maker, but also rely on a staff of professionals to provide expert advice. You've been raised to have a healthy respect for a buck, but have come to realize that your more successful competitors aren't afraid to overspend on talent ot take calculated risks on a few boom or bust players.

But you're not always sure when to "hold 'em or fold 'em" (though there are plenty of media types, cocktail party friends and members of your own franchise who are ready to offer plenty of unasked-for advice).

So what do you do?

I think Michael B is still learning how to make the transition from mom 'n pop organization to a modern, well-run operation without risking the store. It's a story going on before our very eyes that we'd be well-advised to pay more attention to.

Good post. I agree. And if Mr. B is still controlling the purse strings I can see Michael sitting and giving him the "times have changed" talk because it's difficult for the people to grew up in the Depression to stop pinching pennies. Doing that was, basically, survival mode for them.

 

[Bodha]

It can always be worse.

What would it be without the Warner years?


Kurt was luck. Doing what he did in the few years he was here had nothing to do with our FO strategizing or 'making moves'.

In the SB, we had a weak D and little run game. Thats on the FO. We rode Warners talent to the playoffs those years.

So it still applys. This is a legendary crap team managed by the worst FO in all of sports for its history. No other teams have been around for as long, and has had as little success as us.

I would argue that they are the most sustainable team in the history of sports. The oldest professional football team and even with its horrid history of being a mediocre team, they are STILL around. Silver bullets and stakes through the hearts of their fans cannot kill this franchise.

That cant be the benchmark.

Just 'existing' for 100 years is sustainability? I was shooting for a smidge of success. Like 95 years of garbage, 3 years of fun, and now we are back to the dark ages.


Chalk it up to stupid fans like us who subject ourselves to this abuse.

It honestly is total BS. If the Dbacks or Suns were annual Championship contenders, then its be easier to tell the Cardinals to go ___ themselves.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Good post. I agree. And if Mr. B is still controlling the purse strings I can see Michael sitting and giving him the "times have changed" talk because it's difficult for the people to grew up in the Depression to stop pinching pennies. Doing that was, basically, survival mode for them.

The Steelers and the Giants have owned their teams forever, their owners lived through the Great Depression and they never had this problem.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

The Steelers and the Giants have owned their teams forever, their owners lived through the Great Depression and they never had this problem.

I said difficult, not impossible.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Your family owns the Cardinals and has a gazillion dollars which they earned the hard way, by pinching pennies growing out of the Great Depression.

You're the son of the owner and have taken over as the team's major decision-maker, but also rely on a staff of professionals to provide expert advice. You've been raised to have a healthy respect for a buck, but have come to realize that your more successful competitors aren't afraid to overspend on talent or take calculated risks on a few boom or bust players.

the owner didn't "earn" this team the "hard way". He INHERITED it from his Dad. And they've been sucking off the NFL tit ever since.

 

[Duckjake]

Kurt was luck. Doing what he did in the few years he was here had nothing to do with our FO strategizing or 'making moves'.

In the SB, we had a weak D and little run game. Thats on the FO. We rode Warners talent to the playoffs those years.

So it still applys. This is a legendary crap team managed by the worst FO in all of sports for its history. No other teams have been around for as long, and has had as little success as us.

That's a load of nonsense. And I get tired of hearing it was only Kurt Warner. But then I guess the Colts fans say it was only Peyton Manning and the Patriots say it was only Tom Brady and that's just the way things are.

But to claim the Cards were lucky is just wrong. By 2007 the Cards had built a veteran football team with guys who were long term Cardinals. And remember in the NFL 3 years is a long time.

This is the same sort of thing that chaps my rear when Cardinals fans diss guys who played well in Arizona just because they play somewhere else now. Its ok to bash them because they're Texans, or Dolphins or Ravens but to belittle their accomplishments with the Cardinals is male cow manure.

 

[Jetstream Green]

That's a load of nonsense. And I get tired of hearing it was only Kurt Warner. But then I guess the Colts fans say it was only Peyton Manning and the Patriots say it was only Tom Brady and that's just the way things are.

But to claim the Cards were lucky is just wrong. By 2007 the Cards had built a veteran football team with guys who were long term Cardinals. And remember in the NFL 3 years is a long time.

This is the same sort of thing that chaps my rear when Cardinals fans diss guys who played well in Arizona just because they play somewhere else now. Its ok to bash them because they're Texans, or Dolphins or Ravens but to belittle their accomplishments with the Cardinals is male cow manure.

Amen...Preach it Duck!...but I still say Boldin is more of Gary Clark of the old Redskins than the physical Q of old, which is still calling him darn good by the way

 

[Duckjake]

Amen...Preach it Duck!...but I still say Boldin is more of Gary Clark of the old Redskins than the physical Q of old, which is still calling him darn good by the way

Jet, think about this. A small thing that is overlooked by many. Starting the 2008 season Kurt Warner had already worked with Fitz and Boldin for three years as either the #1 or #2 QB. That's no small thing.

Another point. I know there are those who claim the oline was terrible and only Warner's magic release kept him from being sacked 10 times a game. But to me it is no coincidence that the Cards two most successful seasons since the start of free agency came when they had the same 6 guys on the offensive line for 2 complete seasons. Gandy, Wells, Sendlein, Lutui, and Brown with Bridges as the 6th man. For everyone but Sendlein 2009 was the 3rd year in a row they had played together in the same positions. When was the last time that's happened in Arizona?

Crappy defense? That's nonsense as well. 13 turnovers forced in the 2008 playoffs and allowed only an average of 75 yards per game rushing in those 4 games. 2009? Green Bay was the #3 offense in the NFL and New Orleans was #1.

The Steelers had the #1 defense in the NFL in 2008. The Cards ran up over 400 yards on them. Did Pitt have a crappy defense? 2009 Green Bay had the #3 defense in the NFL. They didn't even slow us down.

K9 is right. The Cards still have a reputation for being cheap for the same reason they still get called the St.Louis Cardinals by idiot announcers and writers.

 

[Rats]

Jet, think about this. A small thing that is overlooked by many. Starting the 2008 season Kurt Warner had already worked with Fitz and Boldin for three years as either the #1 or #2 QB. That's no small thing.

Another point. I know there are those who claim the oline was terrible and only Warner's magic release kept him from being sacked 10 times a game. But to me it is no coincidence that the Cards two most successful seasons since the start of free agency came when they had the same 6 guys on the offensive line for 2 complete seasons. Gandy, Wells, Sendlein, Lutui, and Brown with Bridges as the 6th man. For everyone but Sendlein 2009 was the 3rd year in a row they had played together in the same positions. When was the last time that's happened in Arizona?

Crappy defense? That's nonsense as well. 13 turnovers forced in the 2008 playoffs and allowed only an average of 75 yards per game rushing in those 4 games. 2009? Green Bay was the #3 offense in the NFL and New Orleans was #1.

This
The Steelers had the #1 defense in the NFL in 2008. The Cards ran up over 400 yards on them. Did Pitt have a crappy defense? 2009 Green Bay had the #3 defense in the NFL. They didn't even slow us down.

K9 is right. The Cards still have a reputation for being cheap for the same reason they still get called the St.Louis Cardinals by idiot announcers and


This is probably as close to truth as we get here.....but had Warner not lead it the other players would never had had a winning record. We barely get in the playoffs and the
QB gets hot and everyone fedk off that. None of the other bums made any of our guys better. Like Q said....Warner is the real deal. Cards aren't cheap they just suck at being ownership of an NFL franchise Imo.

 

[JeffGollin]

The Steelers and the Giants have owned their teams forever, their owners lived through the Great Depression and they never had this problem.

Actually, the Giants went thru a similar period in the late fifties-early sixties. We had season tickets for end zone bleacher seats. Everyone funneled thru one gate because, it is rumored, the Maras were too cheap to afford an additional ticket-taker or two.

The team was so bad that the fans used to serenade HC Allie Sherman with strains of "Goodbye Allie...(we hate to see you go).

This was the era of the first piper cub/trailing banner fly-over which said something like "We've Had Enough"

Fortunes turned when ownership brought in George Young to GM the team. Either then or sometime later the Maras sold something like a 50% share of the organization to the Tisch family and the rest is history. (The hiring of Young marked the end of a mom 'n pop era for the Giants which served as a kind of template for the modernization of the Bidwill operation of the Cardinals (the major difference being that the Bidwills still own 100% of the Cardinals - or close to it).

 

[RedViper]

I don't have any knowledge about the Bidwills finances but they have to be recognized as pure geniuses so far as being able to hang in there as owners of a team that is almost always the laughing stock of the NFL. In 70s and 2000's they managed to put back to back division championships together. The rest of the time they almost always finished way under 500 and most seasons they've been a joke. Nevertheless year after year, they hang in there. They even managed to get a tax payer funded stadium. Incredible ability to survive. That's their only ability I have any confidence in.