Why all the Kyler hate?

KYCardFan

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Curious, seems to me his record is 2-3 and Jacoby is 1-2

I don’t think they lost 3 games because of him

He had 3 dropped passes in Frisco any of which wins the game, the TN game is not on him, center and right guard screwed up on the play he got hurt

It is just an Arizona thing to hate on certain players
 

slanidrac16

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Curious, seems to me his record is 2-3 and Jacoby is 1-2

I don’t think they lost 3 games because of him

He had 3 dropped passes in Frisco any of which wins the game, the TN game is not on him, center and right guard screwed up on the play he got hurt

It is just an Arizona thing to hate on certain players
What have you been watching? It’s not hate. It’s the realization that Kyler is who he is. He has peaked. Defenses figured out if you kept him in the pocket he couldn’t really hurt you.
That isn’t ever going to change.
This isn’t about this year. It’s a culmination of almost 7 years most of which at best were mediocre.
 

Shane

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Curious, seems to me his record is 2-3 and Jacoby is 1-2

I don’t think they lost 3 games because of him

He had 3 dropped passes in Frisco any of which wins the game, the TN game is not on him, center and right guard screwed up on the play he got hurt

It is just an Arizona thing to hate on certain players

7 years of overall mediocre play. Seeing JB actually stand tall in the pocket and complete passes for over 15-20 yards on the regular. Not just taking 3-5 yard dump offs. I mean you're not new here you've seen all the same issues. Pouting, moping, the list goes on and on.... Oh and there is a thread for this already ;)
 
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KYCardFan

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Seems like Devin Booker is getting the same treatment as Kyler Murray with the local fan base, seems like there’s always a whipping boy

Seems to me that Drew Petzing calls plays that utilizes Brissetts ability much better than he does for Murrays abilities

Murray has shortcomings but he can extend plays and drives with his legs, boots and rollouts are suited for him, I do agree he needs to go under center more.

If they don’t get the right tackle spot fixed soon, Brissett won’t last the season

We will see what happens going forward

This team should be 5-3 at worst with blowing the Frisco and TN games
 

Germz249

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Don’t mistake it for hate.

I seen enough of him to know he is not the guy. You want a QB who is a leader and let’s be real here.. He is not a leader. Just cause he is at the podium and the face of the franchise doesn’t mean he is a leader.

You want a guy who is not selfish, tough and will play through injuries. He has bailed out on important games such as missing a game to secure a playoff spot. This doesn’t inspire the guys around you who are suppose to throw their body on the line.

Is he fast and athletic.. yea.. can he ball yea but he is missing other factors that helps elevate the guys around him.

If you have a guy who is not giving you the results you want then it is time to move on. The end game is winning a superbowl or the NBA finals.

Sorry but I feel he is not the guy who can lead this team to win it all. Guys like Mahomes or Josh Allen are ones you look at and feel like you can win with them. I don’t see that in Kyler anymore so it is time to move on.
 
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Mainstreet

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Seems like Devin Booker is getting the same treatment as Kyler Murray with the local fan base, seems like there’s always a whipping boy

Seems to me that Drew Petzing calls plays that utilizes Brissetts ability much better than he does for Murrays abilities

Murray has shortcomings but he can extend plays and drives with his legs, boots and rollouts are suited for him, I do agree he needs to go under center more.

If they don’t get the right tackle spot fixed soon, Brissett won’t last the season

We will see what happens going forward

This team should be 5-3 at worst with blowing the Frisco and TN games

Don't generalize when it comes to Devin Booker. He was on a Finals and 64 win team.

How far has Kyler Murray taken the Cardinals?
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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He's too short to see over the OL, can't read a defense, won't stand in the pocket & make a throw for fear of getting hit, runs out of bounds without throwing the ball away & loses 4 yards, falls on the ground at the first sign of getting hit. The only thing he has is his off script running ability, his height will always get passes batted down at the LOS.
 

HairZach

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Curious, seems to me his record is 2-3 and Jacoby is 1-2

I don’t think they lost 3 games because of him

He had 3 dropped passes in Frisco any of which wins the game, the TN game is not on him, center and right guard screwed up on the play he got hurt

It is just an Arizona thing to hate on certain players
I'll go into depth. My main issue: Kyler will not deliver a throw if it means he has to take a hit. This results in:
1. Sitdown sacks, sitting down to avoid the hit.
2. Bailing out of the pocket before the route develops, usually to throw a checkdown or rush for 0-4 yards.
3. Early checkdowns.

All of these kill drives, his aversion to contact is ultimately at the heart of every subsequent complaint I have against Kyler. Jacoby has delivered several strikes where he has gotten hit right as the ball left his hands, usually for big gains. Kyler doesnt throw those passes, he has never thrown those passes at any point in his career. If there is interior pressure he flees.

Kyler's penchant for leaving the pocket/breaking the play also messes up the timing of our pass plays. It turns an NFL offense into backyard football. You will notice that often our WRs are turning around and waiting for the ball, instead of Kyler hitting them on the move. This severely limits potential for yards after the catch and makes its much easier for DBs to break up. This wasn't as much of an issue when he had prime Deandre Hopkins, a top 3 all time contested catch WR.

My biggest issue is Kyler's inability to throw with timing over the middle. I'm not sure there's a single reason for him not being able to do this consistently. Its probably a combination of his height blocking his vision and his pocketphobia messing up the timing. Either way he sucks at these throws. He usually throw them late, or straight to the linebacker. It wasn't as much of an issue against single high safety looks, which were popular in the 2010s-21. Back then Kliff ran a successful offense with Kyler rarely being asked to throw over the middle.

This brings us to his downfall. I think it's no coincidence that Kyler started performing terribly in 2022, the year that the majority of NFL defenses adopted two high safety looks. Timing routes over the middle are the easiest way to exploit two high safety looks. During his tenure Kliff had built a system that was perfect for Kyler's unique skillset, and had massive success in 2020-2021. But it had no answers for the new defensive meta in 2022. This is because the answers are throws Kyler struggles to make. Kyler's continued inability to make these throws has made our offense unpleasant ever since. Almost every drive has looked difficult, and its because our OCs have been working one with hand tied behind their back. It's even worse now that we have MHJ, whose claim to fame in college was timing routes over the middle. Kyler has never come close to being the QB he was in 2021 or before, not because he has changed, but because defenses have changed.

We had hoped that he could learn to do the throws he struggled with in the past with Petzing. That maybe Kliffs offense had stymied his development by not properly challenging him. Nope, Kyler has not conquered his weaknesses, and now his fans are clamoring for an OC that will "adapt to his skillset". IMO the main way to adapt to Kyler's skillset in the modern NFL is to build a power run team and have Kyler throw as little as possible. This is what Canales is currently doing with Bryce Young. It sort of worked last year, this year the OL took a step back and our RBs got hurt.

My last issue, he has become a coward. In 2021 and before I used to think that Kyler's main issue was that he was always hunting for the big play, never taking the easy yards. He was always throwing a go ball on 3rd and 3 if he saw he had one on one coverage on the outside. Apparently someone in Kyler's life has pointed this out, because he has massively overcorrected. Since his ACL tear Kyler has become the biggest checkdown merchant in the NFL, second only to the Saints version of Derek Carr. So many stupid checkdown passes to the RBs for 0-3 yard gain. He threw 7 of them against the Titans, 5 against the Seahawks, 7 against the 49ers. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. You don't get that many drives in an NFL game, and these plays so inefficient.

Something I almost forgot, checking out of pass plays on 3rd and long. If you have the volume on wait for 3rd and 10+ you will hear Kyler scream "KILL KILL KILL" at the LOS at some point. This means he's changed the original play call. What do you think he's changed it to? RB draw up the middle. Its so cowardly.
 
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Phrazbit

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Curious, seems to me his record is 2-3 and Jacoby is 1-2

I don’t think they lost 3 games because of him

He had 3 dropped passes in Frisco any of which wins the game, the TN game is not on him, center and right guard screwed up on the play he got hurt

It is just an Arizona thing to hate on certain players

The offense looks functional in a way it hasn't in years.

When we had big plays, pretty much anything over 15 yards, with Kyler it was typically him running around, trying to improvise because he fled the pocket.

When it worked it was like "Wow! Kyler made a huge play out of nothing!" but the more you watch him, the more you realize his instinct is to bail on plays and either check down or start scrambling. That would be all well and good if he was willing take off more often, be a true running threat, but he isn't, when faced with likely contact he goes to the fetal position.

We put in a QB who is willing to stand in and let the routes develop and... bam... just like that, these chuck yardage plays become routine... recievers getting the ball at the point they expect to and in a position to run, rather than with kyler, rolling out of the pocket and hoping his receivers break their routes and roll with him.

And this doesn't factor in the way he carries himself... perpetually pouting on the bench by himself, almost never interacting with his teammates the way you see successful QBs do.

As for the Booker comparison... that's a joke. Booker has taken the Suns to some of their best seasons, within a few plays of a title. In Kyler's one playoff game he was as bad as he could be and his teammates had to guilt him into even playing in the 2nd half. Pretty much everyone who has played with Booker raves about him, about his competitve spirit and how serious he takes the game, guys who leave the Cardinals come away constantly struggling to find nice things to say about Kyler when asked. Booker also got better and better year after year, while Kyler, in year 7, has not evolved in the slightest, if anything he has gotten worse.

Outside of that white hot first half of the 2021 season, Kyler has not managed to string together a consistent run of good play and he's bascially never been great.
 

BritCard

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Nobody likes somebody that is talented but arrogant, when that arrogance leads to their talent being wasted.

And the introduction of a journeyman, mediocre backup has highlighted how bad Kyler has been. The way the offense looks has been night and day. Mike Wilson was averaging 10 yards per game with Kyler. 10 yards! He's averaging 48 with JB. A lot of people thought Mike sucked and was a "decent 3rd WR at best".

Zay Jones did nothing with Kyler. In his first 2 games with JB he had 67 and 79 yards.

Trey has more TDs in the last 3 games than the last 2 years with Kyler.

The whole offense looks far superior with JB at the helm, which has only highlighted how bad Kyler has been. And that makes people rightly angry because we've wasted 7 years on a guy that has the talent to be great, but also the arrogance to think he already is.
 
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Stout

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Curious, seems to me his record is 2-3 and Jacoby is 1-2

I don’t think they lost 3 games because of him

He had 3 dropped passes in Frisco any of which wins the game, the TN game is not on him, center and right guard screwed up on the play he got hurt

It is just an Arizona thing to hate on certain players
Wrong thread.
 

Fiasco

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I'll go into depth. My main issue: Kyler will not deliver a throw if it means he has to take a hit. This results in:
1. Sitdown sacks, sitting down to avoid the hit.
2. Bailing out of the pocket before the route develops, usually to throw a checkdown or rush for 0-4 yards.
3. Early checkdowns.

All of these kill drives, his aversion to contact is ultimately at the heart of every subsequent complaint I have against Kyler. Jacoby has delivered several strikes where he has gotten hit right as the ball left his hands, usually for big gains. Kyler doesnt throw those passes, he has never thrown those passes at any point in his career. If there is interior pressure he flees.

Kyler's penchant for leaving the pocket/breaking the play also messes up the timing of our pass plays. It turns an NFL offense into backyard football. You will notice that often our WRs are turning around and waiting for the ball, instead of Kyler hitting them on the move. This severely limits potential for yards after the catch and makes its much easier for DBs to break up. This wasn't as much of an issue when he had prime Deandre Hopkins, a top 3 all time contested catch WR.

My biggest issue is Kyler's inability to throw with timing over the middle. I'm not sure there's a single reason for him not being able to do this consistently. Its probably a combination of his height blocking his vision and his pocketphobia messing up the timing. Either way he sucks at these throws. He usually throw them late, or straight to the linebacker. It wasn't as much of an issue against single high safety looks, which were popular in the 2010s-21. Back then Kliff ran a successful offense with Kyler rarely being asked to throw over the middle.

This brings us to his downfall. I think it's no coincidence that Kyler started performing terribly in 2022, the year that the majority of NFL defenses adopted two high safety looks. Timing routes over the middle are the easiest way to exploit two high safety looks. During his tenure Kliff had built a system that was perfect for Kyler's unique skillset, and had massive success in 2020-2021. But it had no answers for the new defensive meta in 2022. This is because the answers are throws Kyler struggles to make. Kyler's continued inability to make these throws has made our offense unpleasant ever since. Almost every drive has looked difficult, and its because our OCs have been working one with hand tied behind their back. It's even worse now that we have MHJ, whose claim to fame in college was timing routes over the middle. Kyler has never come close to being the QB he was in 2021 or before, not because he has changed, but because defenses have changed.

We had hoped that he could learn to do the throws he struggled with in the past with Petzing. That maybe Kliffs offense had stymied his development by not properly challenging him. Nope, Kyler has not conquered his weaknesses, and now his fans are clamoring for an OC that will "adapt to his skillset". IMO the main way to adapt to Kyler's skillset in the modern NFL is to build a power run team and have Kyler throw as little as possible. This is what Canales is currently doing with Bryce Young. It sort of worked last year, this year the OL took a step back and our RBs got hurt.

My last issue, he has become a coward. In 2021 and before I used to think that Kyler's main issue was that he was always hunting for the big play, never taking the easy yards. He was always throwing a go ball on 3rd and 3 if he saw he had one on one coverage on the outside. Apparently someone in Kyler's life has pointed this out, because he has massively overcorrected. Since his ACL tear Kyler has become the biggest checkdown merchant in the NFL, second only to the Saints version of Derek Carr. So many stupid checkdown passes to the RBs for 0-3 yard gain. He threw 7 of them against the Titans, 5 against the Seahawks, 7 against the 49ers. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. You don't get that many drives in an NFL game, and these plays so inefficient.

Something I almost forgot, checking out of pass plays on 3rd and long. If you have the volume on wait for 3rd and 10+ you will hear Kyler scream "KILL KILL KILL" at the LOS at some point. This means he's changed the original play call. What do you think he's changed it to? RB draw up the middle. Its so cowardly.


Cliff notes: he sucks
 

AsUpRoDiGy

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The offense looks functional in a way it hasn't in years.

When we had big plays, pretty much anything over 15 yards, with Kyler it was typically him running around, trying to improvise because he fled the pocket.

When it worked it was like "Wow! Kyler made a huge play out of nothing!" but the more you watch him, the more you realize his instinct is to bail on plays and either check down or start scrambling. That would be all well and good if he was willing take off more often, be a true running threat, but he isn't, when faced with likely contact he goes to the fetal position.

We put in a QB who is willing to stand in and let the routes develop and... bam... just like that, these chuck yardage plays become routine... recievers getting the ball at the point they expect to and in a position to run, rather than with kyler, rolling out of the pocket and hoping his receivers break their routes and roll with him.

And this doesn't factor in the way he carries himself... perpetually pouting on the bench by himself, almost never interacting with his teammates the way you see successful QBs do.

As for the Booker comparison... that's a joke. Booker has taken the Suns to some of their best seasons, within a few plays of a title. In Kyler's one playoff game he was as bad as he could be and his teammates had to guilt him into even playing in the 2nd half. Pretty much everyone who has played with Booker raves about him, about his competitve spirit and how serious he takes the game, guys who leave the Cardinals come away constantly struggling to find nice things to say about Kyler when asked. Booker also got better and better year after year, while Kyler, in year 7, has not evolved in the slightest, if anything he has gotten worse.

Outside of that white hot first half of the 2021 season, Kyler has not managed to string together a consistent run of good play and he's bascially never been great.
Exactly. I think Kyler is more akin to Ayton...all the talent, but extremely arrogant and no heart.
 

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