Whiz vs Harbaugh

desertdawg

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One of these coaches has been watching and waiting for this game. One of these coaches will dedicate the first half to the run game, while leaning on their defense to win the field position game and control the clock. One of these coaches is going to try and leave it out of his QBs hands, and minmize his team's offensive mistakes. One of these coaches will study the other's team and design a complete gameplan to defeat them. One of these coaches will believe in their system and get eaten up.

Someone mentioned how similar the NFCW teams are. If we swap the whiner O-line with some JR highschool girls on rollerskates, it would make us even. Grimm sucks.
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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I wish our Defensive players would stop talking how much they hate the Niners, for when they do that the Niners get pumped.

I am glad the Cards players have antimosity for them, but **** and show it in your physical play and execution.
 

JeffGollin

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Funny - Great minds think in parallel directions. I just posted a piece on the BRS contrasting the 2 coaching and FO styles.

Wiz came in with a plan modeled on that of the Steelers and was long on fundamental procedures and structure. While he would occasionally stray from the plan and make abrupt changes based on events on the ground, Wiz remains primarily a systems guy.

The new Niner GM and Harbaugh picked up the pieces in the wake of Singletary, shook the tree and made major changes to both the Niner culture and style of play, elevating SF to Top 5 territory in less than 2 years. (Who would have thought 3 years ago that the Niners would morph so quickly into a physical smashmouth team on both sides of the ball)? Part of this metamorphosis involved making bold moves (as in overhauling the OL and receiving corps).

Witness QB. Neither SF or AZ could consider this a position of strength, but Harbaugh made Alex Smith feel secure that his back was covered and limited the things Alex could do that might get him into trouble. By contrast, you don't get the feeling that Wiz and his staff are doing what's necessary to make his QB's secure and are putting either of them in positions where they can best succeed.

To be fair, Wiz seems to be more even-keeled whereas Harbaugh comes across as more of a Diva in dealing with the media, the refs and opposing NFL organizations.

I could be wrong (I'm not all that close to the situation) but that's how I see it.
 

kerouac9

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Harbaugh is just so creative in how he uses his personnel, particularly on the offensive line. When was the last time you saw the offensive line shaken up for the Cards in-game? Harbaugh is so committed to his program and letting players develop/compete that their first round pick has been a healthy inactive most of the year.

The Cards have a personnel advantage in some places on the field, but there's no question who has the advantage on the sideline. I think that Ray Horton is going to get humbled some this Monday night.
 

Bodha

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Harbaugh is 100x the coach Whiz is.




It hurts me to say that, but records dont lie.
 

MadCardDisease

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Harbaugh is 100x the coach Whiz is.




It hurts me to say that, but records dont lie.

100 times? Really??? Why did Harbaugh lose to a sub par Cardinals team last year coached by an inferior coach in Whisenhunt?



Whisenhunt
  • 44 regular season wins
  • 4 Playoff wins
  • Superbowl appearance
Harbaugh
  • 18 regular season wins
  • 1 playoff win
 

MadCardDisease

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Harbaugh is so committed to his program and letting players develop/compete that their first round pick has been a healthy inactive most of the year.

So a horrible first round pick who can't crack the active roster (consisting a bunch of subpar to average WRs at best) is a plus for Harbaugh? I thought he was supposed to be some kind of offensive genius or something?

:shrug:
 
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SunsTzu

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100 times? Really??? Why did Harbaugh lose to a sub par Cardinals team last year coached by an inferior coach in Whisenhunt?



Whisenhunt
  • 44 regular season wins
  • 4 Playoff wins
  • Superbowl appearance
Harbaugh
  • 18 regular season wins
  • 1 playoff win

It's a bit disingenuous to use win totals to compare a guy in his 6th season as coach to a guy in his 2nd season.
 

Dr. Jones

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We will throw at least 75% of the time. And give up at least 2 INT's. They will win the game because our offense puts our defense in short field situations. They will get tired..... And we will get smoked.
 

Catfish

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Funny - Great minds think in parallel directions. I just posted a piece on the BRS contrasting the 2 coaching and FO styles.

Wiz came in with a plan modeled on that of the Steelers and was long on fundamental procedures and structure. While he would occasionally stray from the plan and make abrupt changes based on events on the ground, Wiz remains primarily a systems guy.

The new Niner GM and Harbaugh picked up the pieces in the wake of Singletary, shook the tree and made major changes to both the Niner culture and style of play, elevating SF to Top 5 territory in less than 2 years. (Who would have thought 3 years ago that the Niners would morph so quickly into a physical smashmouth team on both sides of the ball)? Part of this metamorphosis involved making bold moves (as in overhauling the OL and receiving corps).

Witness QB. Neither SF or AZ could consider this a position of strength, but Harbaugh made Alex Smith feel secure that his back was covered and limited the things Alex could do that might get him into trouble. By contrast, you don't get the feeling that Wiz and his staff are doing what's necessary to make his QB's secure and are putting either of them in positions where they can best succeed.

To be fair, Wiz seems to be more even-keeled whereas Harbaugh comes across as more of a Diva in dealing with the media, the refs and opposing NFL organizations.

I could be wrong (I'm not all that close to the situation) but that's how I see it.

You are soooooo right with this analysis. The key difference maker, (in my opinion), is that Harbaugh has his QB's back. Whiz, on the other hand, has carried the 'competition for position' thing to such an extreme, that he fails to ever acknowledge that someone has won the position, and thus he comes across as never giving his QB that comfort zone of 'having his back'.
 

Russ Smith

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Funny - Great minds think in parallel directions. I just posted a piece on the BRS contrasting the 2 coaching and FO styles.

Wiz came in with a plan modeled on that of the Steelers and was long on fundamental procedures and structure. While he would occasionally stray from the plan and make abrupt changes based on events on the ground, Wiz remains primarily a systems guy.

The new Niner GM and Harbaugh picked up the pieces in the wake of Singletary, shook the tree and made major changes to both the Niner culture and style of play, elevating SF to Top 5 territory in less than 2 years. (Who would have thought 3 years ago that the Niners would morph so quickly into a physical smashmouth team on both sides of the ball)? Part of this metamorphosis involved making bold moves (as in overhauling the OL and receiving corps).

Witness QB. Neither SF or AZ could consider this a position of strength, but Harbaugh made Alex Smith feel secure that his back was covered and limited the things Alex could do that might get him into trouble. By contrast, you don't get the feeling that Wiz and his staff are doing what's necessary to make his QB's secure and are putting either of them in positions where they can best succeed.

To be fair, Wiz seems to be more even-keeled whereas Harbaugh comes across as more of a Diva in dealing with the media, the refs and opposing NFL organizations.

I could be wrong (I'm not all that close to the situation) but that's how I see it.

No bigger Harbaugh fan than me on the board but you're crediting him for some things he didn't do.

He didn't draft any of Staley, Iupati, Davis, he didn't sign Boone, they did that the year before Harbaugh came. He did recognize and groom Boone to replace Snyder. He signed Goodwin, or he was the coach when Goodwin signed. So 4 of the 5 starting OL's were there when he got hired, 3 of them starters in the same position.

They were already a smashmouth offense, just incredibly predictable and very bad at it. Harbaugh uses formations and overloads etc to create mismatches. he was smart enough to recognize they had 2 good TE's and use them both, but Walker was actually a bigger part of the offense before harbaugh than after, he's just a better blocker now.

The main thing is harbaugh made them unpredictable, and he got Smith to stop killing the team with dumb turnovers(last year). He still takes too many sacks, but now he's not throwing the ball up for grabs(until recently).

They are very good at executing basic stuff, but they do it from many different formations and personnel groupings so they're not predictable.
 

Russ Smith

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You are soooooo right with this analysis. The key difference maker, (in my opinion), is that Harbaugh has his QB's back. Whiz, on the other hand, has carried the 'competition for position' thing to such an extreme, that he fails to ever acknowledge that someone has won the position, and thus he comes across as never giving his QB that comfort zone of 'having his back'.

So they drafted Kaepernick and tried to sign Peyton Manning to show Smith they had his back?

He's a smart guy, he realized Alex was the best he had so he puts him in positions where he rarely has to make difficult throws. When he does, he's told him don't take risks, throw it where if your guy can't catch it, nobody can.

When Smith has all day to throw he's very good, when he doesn't, he's still Alex Smith.
 

Bodha

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So a horrible first round pick who can't crack the active roster (consisting a bunch of subpar to average WRs at best) is a plus for Harbaugh? I thought he was supposed to be some kind of offensive genius or something?

Vs. Whiz who's disregarded the Oline for his entire tenure until this year where we finally have the worst O line in the history of the NFL. Both fact and statisitcally.


Ive never heard of Harbaugh being an offensive genius, but he turned a mega bust QB into a very serviceable top 10 QB in this league.




You guys are letting your 9er hate cloud your judgement. Harbaugh is a superior coach in every aspect next to Whiz.
 

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I think at this point, for Monday's game, Harbaugh has the edge over Whisenhunt from a talent standpoint. I also believe he can "out coach" Whisenhunt in Monday's game because of that. His offense will run more, have less turnovers and control the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball (more than likely).

Of course, if Skelton pulls his head out, the Midget Backfield can hold up, Whisenmiller (the OC) doesn't call bizarre plays at wierd times and the defense keeps the game close, then Whisenhunt will "out coach" Harbaugh. I am not counting on this scenario, it is a long shot.

As far as long term prognostication, this question will be answered as it relates to Harbaugh about 5 years from now. Then, I think you can see who is the better head coach.
 

Russ Smith

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So a horrible first round pick who can't crack the active roster (consisting a bunch of subpar to average WRs at best) is a plus for Harbaugh? I thought he was supposed to be some kind of offensive genius or something?

:shrug:

guy on tv the other day was saying jenkins could be like John Taylor, on the practice squad whole rookie year then very good player. problem is Taylor wasn't a first round pick.

they say he's just extremely raw, can't line up correctly(sounds familiar) etc.

But Baalke is the draft guy although I'm sure Harbaugh has input.

He was smart enough to see they have a great defense, a terrific OL and a great RB so just get the QB to stop screwing things up and the offense will be good enough to win games with that defense.
 

kerouac9

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So a horrible first round pick who can't crack the active roster (consisting a bunch of subpar to average WRs at best) is a plus for Harbaugh? I thought he was supposed to be some kind of offensive genius or something?

:shrug:

I don't think it's a huge deal that A.J. Jenkins can't crack the starting lineup on a WR corps that includes a former Top 15 pick, a premire FA acquisition, and a future Hall of Famer. I'm not sure why being inactive for the first 7 games in a first contract that will span 64 (not counting the playoffs) is a huge deal.

I think that our coaching staff would agree that it's better for a rookie to learn the pro game on the sideline, especially in an offense that has as many permutions and alignments as San Francisco's does.

It's not like Colin Kaepernick only appeared in 3 games and attempted 5 passes his rookie year. And if you ask Russ, he's already breathing down Alex Smith's neck with his 55.6% completion percentage on 9 attempts this year.
 

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So they drafted Kaepernick and tried to sign Peyton Manning to show Smith they had his back?

He's a smart guy, he realized Alex was the best he had so he puts him in positions where he rarely has to make difficult throws. When he does, he's told him don't take risks, throw it where if your guy can't catch it, nobody can.

When Smith has all day to throw he's very good, when he doesn't, he's still Alex Smith.

The point is that Harbaugh plays the game to the strengths of his players, (QB included). Whiz, not so much, as he plays to his scheme regardless of who is on the field. His play calls seldom take into consideration who is on the field at the time, he is as likely to try to fit the square peg into the round hole as not. At least Harbaugh puts them into a position to succeed, Whiz not so much.
 

PDXChris

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Vs. Whiz who's disregarded the Oline for his entire tenure until this year where we finally have the worst O line in the history of the NFL. Both fact and statisitcally.


Ive never heard of Harbaugh being an offensive genius, but he turned a mega bust QB into a very serviceable top 10 QB in this league.




You guys are letting your 9er hate cloud your judgement. Harbaugh is a superior coach in every aspect next to Whiz.

Ever hear of Stanford? They had a great offense and Harbaugh is a big reason for that. That is why he is in SF right now.

By the way, please start looking facts up. Statistically, the 1986 Philadelphia Eagles had the worst OL ever by giving up 104 sacks.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_records_(team)
 
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MadCardDisease

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The point is that Harbaugh plays the game to the strengths of his players, (QB included). Whiz, not so much, as he plays to his scheme regardless of who is on the field. His play calls seldom take into consideration who is on the field at the time, he is as likely to try to fit the square peg into the round hole as not. At least Harbaugh puts them into a position to succeed, Whiz not so much.

REally?

When Warner was the starter, Whiz adapted his offense to suit Warner. It was completely opposite from the scheme he ran in Pittsburg.
 

kerouac9

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REally?

When Warner was the starter, Whiz adapted his offense to suit Warner. It was completely opposite from the scheme he ran in Pittsburg.

But it wasn't different than the scheme that he was running with Matt Leinart.

People are completely hung up on the Pittsburgh scheme when defining Whis's "system." Cowher had a ton of input into what the Steelers offense was doing, which is why it was so consistent while they cycled through offensive coordinators.

The Steeler model is not Whis's system. Whis takes his passing philosophies from Dan Henning and his running philosophies from Joe Gibbs.
 

Russ Smith

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I don't think it's a huge deal that A.J. Jenkins can't crack the starting lineup on a WR corps that includes a former Top 15 pick, a premire FA acquisition, and a future Hall of Famer. I'm not sure why being inactive for the first 7 games in a first contract that will span 64 (not counting the playoffs) is a huge deal.

I think that our coaching staff would agree that it's better for a rookie to learn the pro game on the sideline, especially in an offense that has as many permutions and alignments as San Francisco's does.

It's not like Colin Kaepernick only appeared in 3 games and attempted 5 passes his rookie year. And if you ask Russ, he's already breathing down Alex Smith's neck with his 55.6% completion percentage on 9 attempts this year.

It's not me it's the local media, the tv guys who cover the team, and now Eric Davis who's on some Comcast 49er show who said they're hoping that Kaepernick's decision making improves because they're hoping he'll challenge for the QB spot next year.

Tim Kawakami has now written 2 columns where he said disregard what people are saying about Smith being a couple of more bad games away from being benched, he's the starter this year barring injury, but there is definitely some concern about his level of play of late.
 

Russ Smith

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The point is that Harbaugh plays the game to the strengths of his players, (QB included). Whiz, not so much, as he plays to his scheme regardless of who is on the field. His play calls seldom take into consideration who is on the field at the time, he is as likely to try to fit the square peg into the round hole as not. At least Harbaugh puts them into a position to succeed, Whiz not so much.

I agree about that I'm just saying the idea that Smith played better because Harbaugh "had his back" is not based on the facts. The facts are he's been trying to replace Smith since he got there.

But he has done what you said and put Smith in an offense that suits him.

And I agree if he had John Skelton with a sprained ankle he wouldn't run the play we did on 4th down.
 

az1965

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100 times? Really??? Why did Harbaugh lose to a sub par Cardinals team last year coached by an inferior coach in Whisenhunt?



Whisenhunt
  • 44 regular season wins
  • 4 Playoff wins
  • Superbowl appearance
Harbaugh
  • 18 regular season wins
  • 1 playoff win
:thumbup:

Harbaugh is a good coach and will accomplish a lot but what Whiz has accomplished with "the armpit of the NFL" franchise is pretty commending.
 

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