What is the plan?

Discussion in 'Phoenix Suns' started by boisesuns, Jan 5, 2019.

  1. taz02

    taz02 Registered

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    Sorry but I disagree. We may be forced to be patient due to having no choice but patience and luck should not be the plan at this stage.

    I believe that continued losing will cause irreparable damage if it hasn't already. Damage to the players confidence in the coach, Booker's increasing frustration and Aytons confidence.

    I think the team is in need of a drastic move. You can't be patient when have back to back seasons representing two of the three worst records in team history.
     
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  2. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    The Suns have been doing what they are doing now at least since the 2016 draft and the 2013 draft if we want to go there. When the Suns weren't drafting early they selected Warren, Bogdon and Booker.

    As I view it, the Suns losing has more to do with weak drafting and managerial decisions than getting the earliest picks.

    The Suns more recent drafts went something like this:

    In 2013 the Suns drafted #5 and came up short with Len although he is still in the NBA. This was a weak draft but nevertheless the Suns had an early pick.

    In 2014 the Suns drafted Warren at #14 and Bogdon at #27. This was a very good draft except they traded the rights of Bogdon away.

    In 2015 they drafted Booker at #13. It speaks for itself. This was a good draft.

    Then in 2016 the Suns drafted Bender at #4 and traded Bogdon for the 8th pick to get Chriss. Bad draft.

    In 2017 they drafted Jackson at #4. The jury is still out. However more was expected of Jackson.

    In 2018 the Suns drafted Ayton at #1 and traded for Bridges who was drafted #10. The Suns are resting their future on this draft.

    Now in 2019 the Suns are lined up for another top draft pick if they don't trade it.

    The point is the Suns have played poorly since the 2016 season... earlier if we want to include the 2013 season. They should have three good drafts under their belt instead of one from the 2016 draft forward.

    The Suns do not need to do more losing unless they want to adopt a modified Hinkie method.
     
  3. SirStefan32

    SirStefan32 Krycek, Alex Krycek

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  4. AzStevenCal

    AzStevenCal ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    You mean like Philly did a few years ago when they tanked and won 19, 18, 10 and 28 games before finally starting to come together? They've been winning more than two thirds of their games since then. Where's this irreparable damage you and several others keep talking about?

    You seem to be missing the fact that this was by design. We (the Suns) chose to play the tanking game and these are the consequences. We can throw away part of our future to salvage our present but IMO that dooms us to mediocrity. I feel like vomiting any time someone suggests we should do something drastic so we can win now. Making a drastic move isn't a solution and if it were, every loser team would be doing it. You win at an elite level ONLY with stars, we've drafted potential stars and now we have to wait for them to approach their prime and hopefully approach their potential.
     
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  5. AzStevenCal

    AzStevenCal ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    I'm surprised you found it interesting. IMO Dave King is an idiot and always has been. And once again he talks about players such as Goodwin and Ulis as part of our youth movement through draft picks? We didn't tank for second round picks or even for the number 4 pick. It's just nonsense to paint it as 3 separate rebuilds under McD.

    Due to financial pressures, we initially tried to rebuild without actually tanking. When that fell apart and the news started leaking out about the huge TV contract (relieving the financial pressures), Sarver finally agreed to a full rebuild using a similar approach as Hinkie. The biggest mistake we've made since then (other than our horrible 2016 draft decisions) is in acting like the rebuild was complete after we selected Ayton and then announcing that we were abandoning our timeline. You follow Hinkie down this road until you get a Lebron or two, not when you get a bunch of 4's and 5's.

    In truth, we don't have the patience for this kind of rebuild, few franchises do. So we shouldn't have gone down this road in the first place. But abandoning it now is an even worse decision than starting it in the first place IMO. And when we draft Zion or Morant or whoever at the end of this season, I imagine King will be calling it our 4th rebuild in 4 or 5 years.
     
  6. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    No one is suggesting a drastic move. I'm not sure where you are getting that.

    By design or not this is the Suns fourth miserable season in a row so Philly doesn't have anything on the Suns.
     
  7. AzStevenCal

    AzStevenCal ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    The poster I responded to used these words: "I think the team is in need of a drastic move". It was the main reason I responded in the first place. I'm okay with improving via trade or signings, I'm not in favor of a panic move. Most of the drastic moves I can think of qualify as panic moves IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  8. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    This! Man, ALL DAY THIS.
     
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  9. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    Well that ends that conversation effectively.
     
  10. cheesebeef

    cheesebeef Registered User Contributor

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    last year wasn't a design to be awful going into it. It became that way once it was apparent we were atrocious and Bledsoe quit, but make no mistake, most people on this board and including the Suns thought we were going to be improved last year with Bledsoe coming back healthy and adding JJ.

    Trading Bledsoe BEFORE the season would have indicated we were all in on the tank from the get go, much like the Sixers kept trading guys like Michael Carter Williams who was coming off a rookie of the year frosh session for draft picks. But, that didn't happen and so Bledsoe got to hold us hostage and McD put himself in yet another terrible position where he had to deal from a position of complete weakness rather than strength.
     
  11. AzStevenCal

    AzStevenCal ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    We got lucky with Booker, he's worthy of a much higher pick. But this is kind of the way it works. If you don't need a miracle, you draft the best player not the most tantalizing prospect. But you usually need to be drafting first or second to grab a fairly safe high-end prospect. More often than not if you shoot for the moon on a pick from 4 to 20 or even later, you're going to strike out. If you have a solid team and just want to add another contributor, you can usually find a safe NBA level player in that same range. So yes, if you're swinging for the fences you're going to strike out fairly often.

    You can build a competitive team with solid picks in the late lottery and lower but the likelihood of finding a superstar is very, very, very small. If all we wanted to be was a Portland or a Phoenix during the 50 and fade years, we really shouldn't have tanked.
     
  12. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    I was saying the Suns have been awful four season in a row by design or not. The result is the same.

    Now the Suns have another early draft pick in 2019.

    Hinkie doesn't have anything on the Suns as far as losing.
     
  13. AzStevenCal

    AzStevenCal ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    On at least a dozen different occasions in the 16 months prior to the Eric deal, various media types reported that we were trying to trade Bledsoe. Maybe they were all wrong but I suspect they knew what some of us refused to believe (and by some of us, I mean me at the time). There was no market, or rather there was no return acceptable to McD. But Bledsoe's style of play, his knees and his agent apparently made him a less than desirable trade target.

    Personally I think the front office knew we were going to have to tank. I don't think they intended to do it until after the trade deadline but I can't believe they were stupid enough to truly believe that team could compete for a playoff spot. I just think they were walking the line between trying to sell seats and trying to become a true contender.
     
  14. AzStevenCal

    AzStevenCal ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    You've said something like this twice and it's not exactly accurate. Even if we go winless the rest of this season, we already have more wins during the 4 seasons you're referring to than Philly did during their 4 seasons of tanking. And consider, that was in spite of the advantage the 76ers face with an Eastern Conference schedule.
     
  15. SirStefan32

    SirStefan32 Krycek, Alex Krycek

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    I think the Sixers reference is in response to the constant whining about "irreparable damage" that losing is doing to the players and the organization. the truth is that once you start winning, nobody gives a crap about winning 20 games per year for four years. Or hell, for ten years, for that matter.
     
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