What is the plan?

[1Sun]

Josh's trade value right now is more around the range of highly protected second round pick

Which is why we need to keep Josh and see if Monty Williams can get through to him.

 

[Yuma]

Which is why we need to keep Josh and see if Monty Williams can get through to him.

I agree 1Sun, but to clear enough cap space, that's why they are looking to move him. It's just a cap space move. I think his salary is in the 7 Mil range this year and next.

 

[1Sun]

I agree 1Sun, but to clear enough cap space, that's why they are looking to move him. It's just a cap space move. I think his salary is in the 7 Mil range this year and next.

7 million is not going to make a difference between what they can get now for the MLE and what they can otherwise get, at least not in terms of anyone who would be worth it.

Do you want the Suns to be paying Cory Joseph or Thaddeus Young $16-17 million per season?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Josh's trade value right now is more around the range of highly protected second round pick

I doubt it. He has huge question marks but he also still has considerable untapped potential. IMO, if you threw him back in the draft today with full disclosure about him to this point, he'd still probably go in the lottery or shortly past that. He won't have that much value to us because everyone knows he's tainted but I think someone would pony up a pick in the late teens.

 

[SunnyBaller]

I doubt it. He has huge question marks but he also still has considerable untapped potential. IMO, if you threw him back in the draft today with full disclosure about him to this point, he'd still probably go in the lottery or shortly past that. He won't have that much value to us because everyone knows he's tainted but I think someone would pony up a pick in the late teens.

I doubt it , you gotta remember people see Jackson as far less value then Lonzo, Lakers could only get maybe a 7 in a in a weak draft for him which is why they didn't trade him, JJ and number 6 although not confirmed to be discussed was what the sun's would have had to give up for him , they may over value lonzo but I would bet the highest first they could get would be mid 20s from a playoff team that wants to take a flyer on his potential

 

[Yuma]

7 million is not going to make a difference between what they can get now for the MLE and what they can otherwise get, at least not in terms of anyone who would be worth it.

Do you want the Suns to be paying Cory Joseph or Thaddeus Young $16-17 million per season?

The amount of cap space they are trying to free up coincedently aligns with D'Angelo Russell money. I have a couple friends that are more NBA savy than me, and have guessed right on potential NBA moves in the past, and they both think Gambo is full of it. Just funny both are not in touch with each other and came to the same conclusion. I think it might be a trade since the Suns seem in a hurry before the draft, which signals to me that the 6th pick is involved in this somehow. Whichever move, it could be a Collison, I haven't looked at his salary, but someone the Suns feels is worth it in a trade. Are there any young point guards we could be trading for that are off our mirror that would fit the timeline that James Jones seems to publicly be concerned about?

 

[AzStevenCal]

I doubt it , you gotta remember people see Jackson as far less value then Lonzo, Lakers could only get maybe a 7 in a in a weak draft for him which is why they didn't trade him, JJ and number 6 although not confirmed to be discussed was what the sun's would have had to give up for him , they may over value lonzo but I would bet the highest first they could get would be mid 20s from a playoff team that wants to take a flyer on his potential

Not true, or not completely true and I'm not sure it's at all relevant. I'm not trying to belittle your opinion, it's yours and you're welcome to it, but trying to strengthen it because of some "people" does nothing for me. Fans have opinions but most fans are idiots much of the time. And we have no idea what we would have needed to offer for Ball but I tend to believe the other side and that is that we were unwilling to overpay by giving them the 6 and JJ (which the Lakers supposedly wanted to appease Griffin).

 

[Yuma]

Not true, or not completely true and I'm not sure it's at all relevant. I'm not trying to belittle your opinion, it's yours and you're welcome to it, but trying to strengthen it because of some "people" does nothing for me. Fans have opinions but most fans are idiots much of the time. And we have no idea what we would have needed to offer for Ball but I tend to believe the other side and that is that we were unwilling to overpay by giving them the 6 and JJ (which the Lakers supposedly wanted to appease Griffin).

At that point it was the 6 for Ball. Gambo was saying the Suns would rather take one of the guards available at the 6 than Ball. Which is their assessment of talent. I think the implied was JJ for Ball was OK.

 

[SunnyBaller]

Not true, or not completely true and I'm not sure it's at all relevant. I'm not trying to belittle your opinion, it's yours and you're welcome to it, but trying to strengthen it because of some "people" does nothing for me. Fans have opinions but most fans are idiots much of the time. And we have no idea what we would have needed to offer for Ball but I tend to believe the other side and that is that we were unwilling to overpay by giving them the 6 and JJ (which the Lakers supposedly wanted to appease Griffin).

I didn't mean fans but I could have been more clear in my post, I try to think of it the way another gm would see it, and if you were not a sun's fan give a completely unbiased opinion on JJ, I personally would not give up a high or mid first for JJ based off not only his incredibly inefficient numbers which rank near the bottom of the nba, lack of progress for two years, albeit that's still early in his career, and his off the court antics. In basically every way he has been a bust up to this point. I guess really it may have more to do with how high you value potential

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I doubt it , you gotta remember people see Jackson as far less value then Lonzo, Lakers could only get maybe a 7 in a in a weak draft for him which is why they didn't trade him, JJ and number 6 although not confirmed to be discussed was what the sun's would have had to give up for him , they may over value lonzo but I would bet the highest first they could get would be mid 20s from a playoff team that wants to take a flyer on his potential

The truth is, NONE of us know what JJ’s value in the open market is. What we do know is that reporters always want to push value to the “glamor” franchises. So of course they have us bending over in a deal with the Lakers. So when you see Lonzo for JJ and 6th we need to recognize: (a) who knows if that was even accurate; (b) Lonzo was drafted before JJ; (c) Lonzo, on the Lakers, has received more pub and exposure than JJ; and (d) this would still be selling JJ low.

 

[Hoop Head]

I didn't mean fans but I could have been more clear in my post, I try to think of it the way another gm would see it, and if you were not a sun's fan give a completely unbiased opinion on JJ, I personally would not give up a high or mid first for JJ based off not only his incredibly inefficient numbers which rank near the bottom of the nba, lack of progress for two years, albeit that's still early in his career, and his off the court antics. In basically every way he has been a bust up to this point. I guess really it may have more to do with how high you value potential

You can say you're trying to judge him based on how other GM's would see it but honestly you don't know how other GM's think of him.

Busts don't average 12.3 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2 apg, 1 steal in 25 minutes a game. YOU may think he's a bust but that's it. Has he disappointed? Yes, he's been inconsistent but he has still shown a lot of promise. It's taken time for him to get settled in each year but once he does settle in it's clear to see why he was taken #4 overall.

 

[95pro]

You can say you're trying to judge him based on how other GM's would see it but honestly you don't know how other GM's think of him.

Busts don't average 12.3 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2 apg, 1 steal in 25 minutes a game. YOU may think he's a bust but that's it. Has he disappointed? Yes, he's been inconsistent but he has still shown a lot of promise. It's taken time for him to get settled in each year but once he does settle in it's clear to see why he was taken #4 overall.

Not to mention his motor

 

[Yuma]

You can say you're trying to judge him based on how other GM's would see it but honestly you don't know how other GM's think of him.

Busts don't average 12.3 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2 apg, 1 steal in 25 minutes a game. YOU may think he's a bust but that's it. Has he disappointed? Yes, he's been inconsistent but he has still shown a lot of promise. It's taken time for him to get settled in each year but once he does settle in it's clear to see why he was taken #4 overall.

I would say consistency is not what he's shown. Of anything he is in that in between phase right now. Better than back ups, but not better than starters. He can put up stats. At times he can take over a game. None of this is consistent. Until he can put up his stats night in and night out against starters, he has a lot of promise, he is clearly valuable as a back up. Is he worth top line compensation to get him? Clearly not. Is he bust worthy pick him off the street like we did Jummer Fredette? Obviously not. Somewhere backup plus is his range right now.

So you try and trade him for a similar player, except we need a PG or a PF. Who needs a SF that has similar valued players? I don't know. That's why trades are hard. That's why guys like JJ get added to deals and are rarely traded one for one. Maybe we make it easier by saying we will trade him for just a pick? It would be interesting to hear further rumors as to what the Suns are trying to do.

 

[SunnyBaller]

You can say you're trying to judge him based on how other GM's would see it but honestly you don't know how other GM's think of him.

Busts don't average 12.3 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2 apg, 1 steal in 25 minutes a game. YOU may think he's a bust but that's it. Has he disappointed? Yes, he's been inconsistent but he has still shown a lot of promise. It's taken time for him to get settled in each year but once he does settle in it's clear to see why he was taken #4 overall.

Im not sure if you were saying I'm the only one who thinks he's a bust because fan wise I'm not, not even remotely , and I wasn't proclaiming him a bust because I actually watch sun's games and understand his potential and why he was selected, but if he doesn't improve those stats are considered a bust for a 4th pick.

Of course I don't know what the GM's think none of us do, as a business owner myself I try to put myself in a state of mind like I think they would , his numbers don't suggest a high trade value, potential is great and all but you don't buy high on possible potential with some off the court problems, you take a low risk gamble on those guys

 

[Proximo]

You can say you're trying to judge him based on how other GM's would see it but honestly you don't know how other GM's think of him.

Busts don't average 12.3 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2 apg, 1 steal in 25 minutes a game. YOU may think he's a bust but that's it. Has he disappointed? Yes, he's been inconsistent but he has still shown a lot of promise. It's taken time for him to get settled in each year but once he does settle in it's clear to see why he was taken #4 overall.

Jackson is very inefficient. Yes he puts up 12 ppg, but that is because he is taking to many shots. Yes he is a bust. On a good team he would not be getting 25 minutes a game.

He has a Offensive Rating of 92 - that may not mean much to you - but that is atrocious. Mikal's offensive rating is 112, Oubre's is 105, Warren's is 111.

He does show flashes, but it has been two years, and he still makes the same mistakes. Right now he does nothing well. His defense is actually below average - and that is what he was supposed to be a defensive stopper.

The only reason for optimism with him is his 3 point shot has been improving. But as of right now I really doubt the suns would even pick up his fifth year option - and that decision has to be made very soon.

 

[Hoop Head]

Jackson is very inefficient. Yes he puts up 12 ppg, but that is because he is taking to many shots. Yes he is a bust. On a good team he would not be getting 25 minutes a game.

He has a Offensive Rating of 92 - that may not mean much to you - but that is atrocious. Mikal's offensive rating is 112, Oubre's is 105, Warren's is 111.

He does show flashes, but it has been two years, and he still makes the same mistakes. Right now he does nothing well. His defense is actually below average - and that is what he was supposed to be a defensive stopper.

The only reason for optimism with him is his 3 point shot has been improving. But as of right now I really doubt the suns would even pick up his fifth year option - and that decision has to be made very soon.

He has been inconsistent but he's shown progress each season. He hasn't responded well to the mess the Suns have been. He's had 3 coaches and now he has his 4th and he's headed into his 3rd season. Improving under each coach shows he is capable of learning though and he has improved with time under the coaches he's had.

He started out last season very poorly but he improved as it went on. If you look at the monthly splits for his stats you'll see that by the end of the year he was doing much better. It was hard to dig himself out of that statistical hole he dug for himself but he did. He went from being historically bad to in line with other Suns last season.

As far as his defense is concerned, his numbers were comparable to Mikal's and he's hailed as a great defender. JJ had a 114 defensive rating and Mikal had 115. JJ had 1.1 Defensive Win Shares while Mikal's was 1.2. JJ is also younger than Mikal still despite being in the league a year longer.

Drafting 19-20 year olds and cutting them loose because they don't show anything by the time they're 22 will keep this team in the basement. Alex Len was given more leeway than JJ gets.

There is no such thing as a 5th year option so I assume you meant 4th year and that's already been picked up because JJ is not Bender, he has shown he can play the NBA game. He needs to be more consistent and this year will be important but the Suns knew JJ was a project when they took him. Yes, he was drafted as someone who could defend but the rest of his game would take time to polish and establish and the Suns haven't given him enough time with any one coach to show he is capable of learning and improving year after year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Drafting 19-20 year olds and cutting them loose because they don't show anything by the time they're 22 will keep this team in the basement. Alex Len was given more leeway than JJ gets.

man... this is a REALLY good point. We're coming off a year where I believe pretty much everyone underachieved because we had an atrocious head coach and no PG. Cutting bait on JJ at this point, before seeing what a real coaching staff and hopefully PG can do for him feels like cutting off our nose to spite our face. If he's got value as part of a trade to get someone who could REALLY help this team, both short and long-term, fine... trade away.

but trade away for basically nothing makes very little sense to me.

 

[1Sun]

man... this is a REALLY good point. We're coming off a year where I believe pretty much everyone underachieved because we had an atrocious head coach and no PG. Cutting bait on JJ at this point, before seeing what a real coaching staff and hopefully PG can do for him feels like cutting off our nose to spite our face. If he's got value as part of a trade to get someone who could REALLY help this team, both short and long-term, fine... trade away.

but trade away for basically nothing makes very little sense to me.

This. A million times this.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I didn't mean fans but I could have been more clear in my post, I try to think of it the way another gm would see it, and if you were not a sun's fan give a completely unbiased opinion on JJ, I personally would not give up a high or mid first for JJ based off not only his incredibly inefficient numbers which rank near the bottom of the nba, lack of progress for two years, albeit that's still early in his career, and his off the court antics. In basically every way he has been a bust up to this point. I guess really it may have more to do with how high you value potential

I don't disagree, he's clearly been a bust to this point in his career. So has Ball but the big difference is that JJ hasn't missed a lot of games due to injuries like Lonzo has. And if you've been paying attention, you already know there are at least as many off court reasons to devalue Ball as there are for JJ. That's why I believe GMs would not value Lonzo much differently than they would Josh. And keep in mind, most seemed to think Lonzo was close to being ready when drafted whereas the GMs of the league thought Jackson's value lay down the road.

 

[Rab]

man... this is a REALLY good point. We're coming off a year where I believe pretty much everyone underachieved because we had an atrocious head coach and no PG. Cutting bait on JJ at this point, before seeing what a real coaching staff and hopefully PG can do for him feels like cutting off our nose to spite our face. If he's got value as part of a trade to get someone who could REALLY help this team, both short and long-term, fine... trade away.

but trade away for basically nothing makes very little sense to me.

I am absolutely in this camp. I don’t give JJ away at this point for the “hope” we can net something in return. As said, if they flip him to fill a need, that’s a different story. I would love to see what Monty can do with him and hopefully a little franchise stability will help everyone.


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[GatorAZ]

JJ’s issue is that he doesn’t realize he’s a role player. I’ve always felt his upside was a lot more limited than most but it’s worth it to give him a shot as a solid depth guy under Monty. Nobody will give us a worthwhile return while he’s dealing with his drama.

 

[Ronin]

The plan is to wait......








To see who many games Josh is suspended for.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm starting to consider Jackson and Johnson as expiring contracts.

 

[95pro]

JJ’s issue is that he doesn’t realize he’s a role player. I’ve always felt his upside was a lot more limited than most but it’s worth it to give him a shot as a solid depth guy under Monty. Nobody will give us a worthwhile return while he’s dealing with his drama.

The major charge was dropped, also the Morris brothers were in deeper crap but still found a new home although we probably sold low on them considering.

 

[95pro]

I think we're in "trust the process" mode. GM JJ has been quiet about making moves and is in a tough spot right now. Once Tyler's contract falls off, and a year of the kids under Monty, things should become clear. What i do expect is Oubre or Randle coming aboard.