What is the plan?

[Yuma]

Well, not exactly. I see some pretty hefty offers for him here and I'm beginning to suspect he's considered to be on a much higher tier than I would put him. He's really a very mediocre PG (as in, lower tier) when you consider traditional responsibilities on offense for a lead guard. He's an excellent on ball defender and can easily cover either guard spot but really, he's better off as a shooting guard despite the fact that he's a very average shooter.

Would he pair well with Booker, almost definitely. But you throw in his contract, his age and his injury history and I don't think he's quite the solution some expect him to be. At the right price, he's a great target but even in a soft draft year I think the 6 pick is more than fair compensation for him (salary balancing notwithstanding).

I agree. If you read what I have been posting, I think we have to give up MORE than what most posters think we can get for him. We will have to pay to get him. It won't be cheap. Is he the best PG option? No. But he's "available" according to NBA pundits. We have been going through who is available, and why mostly we don't like most PGs available. He's at the top of the list for who is available. As such, he's going to get overpaid. Plus you will have to give up good stuff to get him. Maybe he is not ideal, but fit is more of what we need to look for. Who will fit with Booker.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, not exactly. I see some pretty hefty offers for him here and I'm beginning to suspect he's considered to be on a much higher tier than I would put him. He's really a very mediocre PG (as in, lower tier) when you consider traditional responsibilities on offense for a lead guard. He's an excellent on ball defender and can easily cover either guard spot but really, he's better off as a shooting guard despite the fact that he's a very average shooter.

Would he pair well with Booker, almost definitely. But you throw in his contract (27 Mil for 3 more seasons), his age and his injury history and I don't think he's quite the solution some expect him to be. At the right price, he's a great target but even in a soft draft year I think the 6 pick is more than fair compensation for him (salary balancing notwithstanding).

I think gall between you and those wanting to send a king’s ransom. What concerns me most is I think I recall seeing him say something to the effect of he wants to play the 2.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think gall between you and those wanting to send a king’s ransom. What concerns me most is I think I recall seeing him say something to the effect of he wants to play the 2.

I lower his value a bit because I believe he's overpaid by 6 to 8 per year. He's coming off one of his best statistical years but at 29, his best days are likely about to be behind him. Davis covers up so many of his shortcomings and we won't have that luxury even if Ayton takes a big step forward this season.

 

[Mainstreet]

It sounds like the Suns are not interested in trading for Mike Conley.


Evan Sidery‏ @esidery


.@Gambo987 is reporting that the Suns are not interested in trading for Mike Conley.


2:53 PM - 20 May 2019

 

[1Sun]

It sounds like the Suns are not interesting in trading for Mike Conley.


Evan Sidery‏ @esidery


.@Gambo987 is reporting that the Suns are not interested in trading for Mike Conley.


2:53 PM - 20 May 2019

That's fine...as long as they acquire a capable veteran starting point guard somewhere...

 

[Yuma]

Conley is basically a two year rental. I think he's a good player, but by the time our guys are ready for playoffs, you wonder if Conley's wheels will still work. It would be like watching Chris Paul with the Mavs this year. Paul tried the best he could for age.

 

[Hoop Head]

Here's a decent plan for the Suns to clear some cap space. Apparently JR Smith's contract is only guaranteed for $3.87 million next season if he's waived before June 30th. He is owed $15.6 for next season, or that is the cap number that the trade would involve. We could conceivably trade Cleveland Tyler Johnson for JR Smith straight up or we could trade Warren for JR straight up as well.

Valley of the Suns proposes both options only in the deal for Warren they have Cleveland sending us the #5 pick in return, which I don't think they would do. The Warren for JR Smith trade would free up about $7 million in cap space this summer but they don't count the cap hold for the #5 pick, which I don't see being included anyways.

The Tyler Johnson trade would free up about $15 million in cap space, which is really appealing. That could free up max cap room. I would definitely part with the #32 pick for that. That is a much better plan than stretching Tyler Johnson and if comes down to stretching Tyler's contract or making a deal with Cleveland for JR Smith, to waive him, I might even part with the Bucks pick as part of that.



https://valleyofthesuns.com/2019/05/26/phoenix-suns-trade-j-r-smith-not-think/

 

[1Sun]

Here's a decent plan for the Suns to clear some cap space. Apparently JR Smith's contract is only guaranteed for $3.87 million next season if he's waived before June 30th. He is owed $15.6 for next season, or that is the cap number that the trade would involve. We could conceivably trade Cleveland Tyler Johnson for JR Smith straight up or we could trade Warren for JR straight up as well.

Valley of the Suns proposes both options only in the deal for Warren they have Cleveland sending us the #5 pick in return, which I don't think they would do. The Warren for JR Smith trade would free up about $7 million in cap space this summer but they don't count the cap hold for the #5 pick, which I don't see being included anyways.

The Tyler Johnson trade would free up about $15 million in cap space, which is really appealing. That could free up max cap room. I would definitely part with the #32 pick for that. That is a much better plan than stretching Tyler Johnson and if comes down to stretching Tyler's contract or making a deal with Cleveland for JR Smith, to waive him, I might even part with the Bucks pick as part of that.



https://valleyofthesuns.com/2019/05/26/phoenix-suns-trade-j-r-smith-not-think/

Only if we KNOW we will acquire a legit NBA starting point guard and/or power forward with that cap space.

 

[Finito]

I would never trade multiple players/Assets for a player like Jrue Holiday he’s solid but he’s not an all star or all NBA caliber player. Plus he has injury history.

NO had no reason to trade him anyway

Just because we need something doesn’t mean we should over pay

 

[itlnsunsfan]

I would never trade multiple players/Assets for a player like Jrue Holiday he’s solid but he’s not an all star or all NBA caliber player. Plus he has injury history.

NO had no reason to trade him anyway

Just because we need something doesn’t mean we should over pay

You wouldn't trade for Jrue Holiday??? He's about as ideal a backcourt match for Booker as I can think of.

 

[Raze]

I would never trade multiple players/Assets for a player like Jrue Holiday he’s solid but he’s not an all star or all NBA caliber player. Plus he has injury history.

NO had no reason to trade him anyway

Just because we need something doesn’t mean we should over pay

While it's true he does have an injury history, I completely disagree about not giving up the assets to get him.

Jrue is probably one of, if not THE most well rounded PG in this era. He can score, shoot, distribute decently, and most importantly absolutely lock down on D. His PER this year is at 19.43, but that doesn't accurately account for his D. He's a vet and a solid human being.

I mean, who honestly is better at PG than Jrue? Steph is a PGINO (Point Guard in Name Only), Kyrie doesn't pass or play D, Chris Paul is super old (albeit an amazing PG in his prime), Lowry will drive you nuts with his disappearing acts, and Wall is a headache who's injured. I would submit that only Lillard and Westbrook are arguably better all around players. Damian is lights out on O, but average on D. Westbrook is the biggest ball hog PG in the history of the game. But I could see the argument for either of them. (Edit: I'd probably put Draymond Green in this discussion since he's the ACTUAL PG for GS and is amazing at it).

Jrue is EXACTLY what a young team like this needs. I'd give up a hefty amount for him: #6, TJ, JJ, and future 1sts. I would basically throw the kitchen sink at NO to make them part with him. I agree they have no reason to trade him, but we can strongly persuade them to do it anyway.

We need to be relevant again. He immediately lurches us in that direction.

 

[AzStevenCal]

While it's true he does have an injury history, I completely disagree about not giving up the assets to get him.

Jrue is probably one of, if not THE most well rounded PG in this era. He can score, shoot, distribute decently, and most importantly absolutely lock down on D. His PER this year is at 19.43, but that doesn't accurately account for his D. He's a vet and a solid human being.

I mean, who honestly is better at PG than Jrue? Steph is a PGINO (Point Guard in Name Only), Kyrie doesn't pass or play D, Chris Paul is super old (albeit an amazing PG in his prime), Lowry will drive you nuts with his disappearing acts, and Wall is a headache who's injured. I would submit that only Lillard and Westbrook are arguably better all around players. Damian is lights out on O, but average on D. Westbrook is the biggest ball hog PG in the history of the game. But I could see the argument for either of them. (Edit: I'd probably put Draymond Green in this discussion since he's the ACTUAL PG for GS and is amazing at it).

Jrue is EXACTLY what a young team like this needs. I'd give up a hefty amount for him: #6, TJ, JJ, and future 1sts. I would basically throw the kitchen sink at NO to make them part with him. I agree they have no reason to trade him, but we can strongly persuade them to do it anyway.

We need to be relevant again. He immediately lurches us in that direction.

If it weren't for injury concerns I'd agree with you. As it is, he's probably our best option but not one I'd be willing to greatly overpay for. Maybe the 6, TJ and the Milwaukee pick plus a pick swap or two but I don't know if I'd go much higher. I could probably be talked out of a highly protected pick but no more.

 

[Finito]

You wouldn't trade for Jrue Holiday??? He's about as ideal a backcourt match for Booker as I can think of.

Did you read my post? I said I would not over pay and we shouldn’t overpay just because we need a certain position.

 

[Finito]

While it's true he does have an injury history, I completely disagree about not giving up the assets to get him.

Jrue is probably one of, if not THE most well rounded PG in this era. He can score, shoot, distribute decently, and most importantly absolutely lock down on D. His PER this year is at 19.43, but that doesn't accurately account for his D. He's a vet and a solid human being.

I mean, who honestly is better at PG than Jrue? Steph is a PGINO (Point Guard in Name Only), Kyrie doesn't pass or play D, Chris Paul is super old (albeit an amazing PG in his prime), Lowry will drive you nuts with his disappearing acts, and Wall is a headache who's injured. I would submit that only Lillard and Westbrook are arguably better all around players. Damian is lights out on O, but average on D. Westbrook is the biggest ball hog PG in the history of the game. But I could see the argument for either of them. (Edit: I'd probably put Draymond Green in this discussion since he's the ACTUAL PG for GS and is amazing at it).

Jrue is EXACTLY what a young team like this needs. I'd give up a hefty amount for him: #6, TJ, JJ, and future 1sts. I would basically throw the kitchen sink at NO to make them part with him. I agree they have no reason to trade him, but we can strongly persuade them to do it anyway.

We need to be relevant again. He immediately lurches us in that direction.

Sorry this is just insane. The most well rounded PG of this era? A guy who’s never made an all NBA team? Excuse me? Come on now. Multiple players and future 1st? Come on now.

Oh I’m sorry NO has had Holiday and Davis and won what? Come on now.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

Did you read my post? I said I would not over pay and we shouldn’t overpay just because we need a certain position.

You said you wouldn't trade multiple assets for Holiday. As it would take a package of assets to acquire Jrue, I took that as you would not trade for him. Out of curiosity, what would you be willing to give up? Again, I cannot think of a much better pairing for Booker in the backcourt.

 

[Raze]

Sorry this is just insane. The most well rounded PG of this era? A guy who’s never made an all NBA team? Excuse me? Come on now. Multiple players and future 1st? Come on now.

Oh I’m sorry NO has had Holiday and Davis and won what? Come on now.

Yup. One of, if not THE most well rounded PG in this era. (Well, if you consider this era a post Chris Paul era).

It really isn't all that much of a compliment to Jrue as it is an indictment on this generation of PGs. It's the worst era of PGs I've ever seen. This positionless basketball has destroyed the PG and C positions.

As for not making an All NBA team, very few actual PGs make the list. Take a look at the last 5 years.

https://www.nba.com/history/awards/all-nba-team

Lillard, Westbrook, Walker, Lowry, Thomas... Not exactly a heavy hitting list of names after the 1st two. And I'd take Jrue over all of them except Lillard (Damian is just too good offensively and is getting better on D). Jrue plays both ends exceptionally well. And D is something the All NBA teams constantly ignore for Gs (Continuing the argument that Klay was robbed this year).

 

[BC867]

I would never trade multiple players/Assets for a player like Jrue Holiday he’s solid but he’s not an all star or all NBA caliber player. Plus he has injury history.

NO had no reason to trade him anyway

Just because we need something doesn’t mean we should over pay

Aside from the injury history, who are the Phoenix Suns to think in terms of All Star or All NBA?

We have a long way to go to reach that point. All or nothing is an unreasonable approach.

All we need are a Point Guard and a Power Forward who will fit well next to our Center and SG.

Remember, our Shooting Guard covered Point Guard last season and our Power Forwards were
Small Forwards. We don't need an All Star or All NBA, just legitimate players at those positions.

That is the first step!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Aside from the injury history, who are the Phoenix Suns to think in terms of All Star or All NBA?

We have a long way to go to reach that point. All or nothing is an unreasonable approach.

All we need are a Point Guard and a Power Forward who will fit well next to our Center and SG.

Remember, our Shooting Guard covered Point Guard last season and our Power Forwards were
Small Forwards. We don't need an All Star or All NBA, just legitimate players at those positions.

That is the first step!

Yes we do and that's why some of us are unwilling to sell off part of our future for small improvements.

 

[Hoop Head]

Sorry this is just insane. The most well rounded PG of this era? A guy who’s never made an all NBA team? Excuse me? Come on now. Multiple players and future 1st? Come on now.

Oh I’m sorry NO has had Holiday and Davis and won what? Come on now.

You keep mentioning All-NBA teams but the guard positions are very stacked there. Jrue has made multiple All-Defensive teams and I think that's more important when looking for accolades than All-Star appearances. All-Star games are popularity contests for the most part but All-Defensive assignments are earned. Next to Booker in our backcourt I'd much rather add an All-Defensive PG than an All-Star PG because we don't need the scoring that comes with being an All-NBA PG next to our scoring SG, especially since that SG scores at an elite level.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You keep mentioning All-NBA teams but the guard positions are very stacked there. Jrue has made multiple All-Defensive teams and I think that's more important when looking for accolades than All-Star appearances. All-Star games are popularity contests for the most part but All-Defensive assignments are earned. Next to Booker in our backcourt I'd much rather add an All-Defensive PG than an All-Star PG because we don't need the scoring that comes with being an All-NBA PG next to our scoring SG, especially since that SG scores at an elite level.

I'd agree that the All Defensive teams are less of a popularity contest than All Star selections but to a degree they are both popularity contests and they are also both earned. Popularity and reputation play a part in each IMO. Also, although not incorrect, I think "multiple" gives the impression that he's made more than the 2 he actually has.

 

[Finito]

You said you wouldn't trade multiple assets for Holiday. As it would take a package of assets to acquire Jrue, I took that as you would not trade for him. Out of curiosity, what would you be willing to give up? Again, I cannot think of a much better pairing for Booker in the backcourt.

I’m not touching Bridges in that trade at all. If they ask for him he’s off limits. I think we go into next year with Oubre/Bridges. If they want Warren they can have him if they want 6 they can have it, but I’m not trading the Bucks pick and 6

I’m not giving up multiple picks or players.

Listen I like Holiday he’s a good solid player, but he’s not a game changer he’s not a difference maker. Like I said he’s been playing with Anthony Davis the last 6 years and what have they been able to do? There’s a reason AD wants to go play with other stars.

Would I take Holiday of course but I’m not giving up the farm to get him.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'd agree that the All Defensive teams are less of a popularity contest than All Star selections but to a degree they are both popularity contests and they are also both earned. Popularity and reputation play a part in each IMO. Also, although not incorrect, I think "multiple" gives the impression that he's made more than the 2 he actually has.

I thought he made the last 2 and then again this year, that's why I said multiple but I was mistaken. However I do think it helps that he's fresh off of 2 years of being on the All-Defensive team while playing on a team that isn't that good. I agree that some awards can be a popularity contest but like was discussed in another thread about Booker and also about Bridges, it's hard to get recognition and receive those accolades when you are on a losing team, especially defensive accolades. Holiday is not a guy that is popular amongst NBA analysts who will get rewarded when he doesn't earn it. You can look at the selections and tell that popularity helps get some guys selected over guys like Holiday simply because of the team they're on or their popularity.

When I looked up info on Holiday though I saw he had been an All-Star previously, so the claim that he's never been an All-Star is false also. He made the All-Star team in 2012-13, which is a little while back but that plus his recent back-to-back All-Defensive honors shows that he's got something to offer still, IMO. He was an All-Star when he was 22 and he's changed conferences, going form the east to west, and his game has changed a lot. He was more of a score first PG while in Philadelphia, where he was an All-Star, and also when he arrived in New Orleans. It took some time to get him to become more of the guard he is today, which is a good defensive combo guard.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think Holiday is an excellent defender at the one or the two. I think he's an average shooting guard (on offense) and a slightly below average point guard (again, on offense). All told that makes him a pretty good (2 way) combo guard but IMO he is a little overpaid and with his age and his injury risks, he's more of a gamble than a lot here seem to think. He probably is our best option but if we have to give a lot to get him, I think that's a mistake.

 

[Hoop Head]

I think Holiday is an excellent defender at the one or the two. I think he's an average shooting guard (on offense) and a slightly below average point guard (again, on offense). All told that makes him a pretty good (2 way) combo guard but IMO he is a little overpaid and with his age and his injury risks, he's more of a gamble than a lot here seem to think. He probably is our best option but if we have to give a lot to get him, I think that's a mistake.

I agree with that, cost is important. I wouldn't include a future pick of our own but I would use the Bucks pick in the deal but I don't think that has all that much value. Besides Tyler Johnson, Warren, and the #6 pick, I'm not sure what else they would want but including any more than a future 2nd or Okobo is where it gets too steep, IMO. The main reason I'd be fine sending Johnson and Warren out in a deal for Holiday is it would give us more cap room to use this summer. I think that might be too high of a price to pay for him but that's a gamble I'd take mainly because it allows us more flexibility with free agents, mainly to pursue a good PF and resign Oubre.

 

[1Sun]

I’m not touching Bridges in that trade at all. If they ask for him he’s off limits. I think we go into next year with Oubre/Bridges. If they want Warren they can have him if they want 6 they can have it, but I’m not trading the Bucks pick and 6

I’m not giving up multiple picks or players.

Listen I like Holiday he’s a good solid player, but he’s not a game changer he’s not a difference maker. Like I said he’s been playing with Anthony Davis the last 6 years and what have they been able to do? There’s a reason AD wants to go play with other stars.

Would I take Holiday of course but I’m not giving up the farm to get him.

At this point, anyone who renders it no longer necessary for us to start Tyler Johnson or Devin Booker at point guard is a game changer and difference maker for us.