What is the plan?

[Mainstreet]

That is a ridiculous haul for a player who really has about as good of a chance of panning out as a starting point guard as Okobo and Melton and who basically brings the same skill set to the table...

We won't know how the lottery plays out until tomorrow but if the Suns have a legitimate chance to get their PGOTF (Morant), I think you have to do something like this.

Barrett could end up being drafted at #2 so there is some strategy involved. We need to know where the Suns draft.

 

[1Sun]

I'm calling it now. The Knicks get the #2 pick, and the Suns shoot themselves in the foot by gifting them Josh Jackson plus a future first rounder just to move up to draft Ja Morant. It will be renembered as a trade in the same vein as the trade for Chriss, or worse the trade for Knight.

Sure enough this very trade scenario was discussed at length on Doug and Wolf this morning in a hypothetical trade up from Pick #3 held by the Suns to Pick #2 held by Atlanta. I think I will literally be sick if that happens.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sure enough this very trade scenario was discussed at length on Doug and Wolf this morning in a hypothetical trade up from Pick #3 held by the Suns to Pick #2 held by Atlanta. I think I will literally be sick if that happens.

We've discussed something like this many times here, it's not a new idea. If after workouts and everything that goes on during this period we decide he's a future great, I'm all for making a big trade to get him. If we get lucky and draft Zion, I'd be willing to trade any combination of Warren, Jackson, Milwaukee pick and a couple of unprotected picks for him. If we don't get Zion I wouldn't be willing to give away the farm like that but our pick plus the Milwaukee pick and Jackson would be a steal IMO (assuming we really believe in Ja). This isn't the time to hoard draft capital or excess players.

 

[Mainstreet]

We've discussed something like this many times here, it's not a new idea. If after workouts and everything that goes on during this period we decide he's a future great, I'm all for making a big trade to get him. If we get lucky and draft Zion, I'd be willing to trade any combination of Warren, Jackson, Milwaukee pick and a couple of unprotected picks for him. If we don't get Zion I wouldn't be willing to give away the farm like that but our pick plus the Milwaukee pick and Jackson would be a steal IMO (assuming we really believe in Ja). This isn't the time to hoard draft capital or excess players.

I can't do the unprotected picks part of the trade.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I can't do the unprotected picks part of the trade.

If we get Zion, I easily could - well, that's assuming we've done a thorough job of analyzing and researching Morant and are confident he's a difference maker at the position.

I don't like Fox as much as you do but if we had Zion in hand, I'd trade 3 mildly protected firsts (one unprotected, 2 protected top 3) for him (or his equal) without hesitation or better yet, offer 3 or 4 pick swaps without protection. But if we can't solve both of our starting position needs, we need to continue to hang on to our future picks.

 

[Mainstreet]

If we get Zion, I easily could - well, that's assuming we've done a thorough job of analyzing and researching Morant and are confident he's a difference maker at the position.

I don't like Fox as much as you do but if we had Zion in hand, I'd trade 3 mildly protected firsts (one unprotected, 2 protected top 3) for him (or his equal) without hesitation or better yet, offer 3 or 4 pick swaps without protection. But if we can't solve both of our starting position needs, we need to continue to hang on to our future picks.

If the Suns land Zion, I would to look to find a veteran starter through trade or free agency.

 

[1Sun]

We've discussed something like this many times here, it's not a new idea. If after workouts and everything that goes on during this period we decide he's a future great, I'm all for making a big trade to get him. If we get lucky and draft Zion, I'd be willing to trade any combination of Warren, Jackson, Milwaukee pick and a couple of unprotected picks for him. If we don't get Zion I wouldn't be willing to give away the farm like that but our pick plus the Milwaukee pick and Jackson would be a steal IMO (assuming we really believe in Ja). This isn't the time to hoard draft capital or excess players.

The Milwaukee pick and Jackson to move up one spot is a steal???

Well it certainly is for the team that isn't the Suns...

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Milwaukee pick and Jackson to move up one spot is a steal???

Well it certainly is for the team that isn't the Suns...

Of course it is. Ignoring who is there, moving up 1 spot in the top 3 is ALWAYS expensive. Jackson and the Milwaukee pick wouldn't even get you a top 25 pick right now from most teams so how could it be anything other than a steal?

 

[Mainstreet]

Of course it is. Ignoring who is there, moving up 1 spot in the top 3 is ALWAYS expensive. Jackson and the Milwaukee pick wouldn't even get you a top 25 pick right now from most teams so how could it be anything other than a steal?

I think a swap of picks and a protected first round pick does it like the Mavericks did in a trade with the Hawks in the last draft for Doncic.

 

[1Sun]

I think a swap of picks and a protected first round pick does it like the Mavericks did in a trade with the Hawks in the last draft for Doncic.

And that was two spots and a better and more proven prospect.

 

[Yuma]

With the combine and athlete visits to different teams, it is still early on before the draft to trade the pick, whatever it is. You never know who will rise or fall on the board.

 

[Mainstreet]

And that was two spots and a better and more proven prospect.

That was a good draft no doubt. Both teams did well.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think a swap of picks and a protected first round pick does it like the Mavericks did in a trade with the Hawks in the last draft for Doncic.

Maybe but that was a talent laden top 5 which makes it a horse of a different color. And in addition to the swap Dallas surrendered a top 5 protected pick (it becomes top 3 and unprotected eventually) which has a lot more value than Josh Jackson and the Milwaukee pick.

 

[Hoop Head]

Of course it is. Ignoring who is there, moving up 1 spot in the top 3 is ALWAYS expensive. Jackson and the Milwaukee pick wouldn't even get you a top 25 pick right now from most teams so how could it be anything other than a steal?

You are overvaluing this draft. I'd be shocked if Jackson alone couldn't bring back a top 20 pick. Even with his legal issues I could see a late lotto pick for him. Of course the Bucks pick doesn't have much value but I'd wager a team in the 20's isn't interested in anyone and would rather have the future pick than some gamble this year, especially with a number of teams trying to clear as much cap room as possible.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And that was two spots and a better and more proven prospect.

It was a much better prospect for both teams that what we're talking about now. That was a rare draft where you could argue for a handful of players as the top pick, that is so NOT the case this year. I think it was 3 first round picks when the Warriors traded Hardaway for Webber and IIRC that was just 2 spots different also.

 

[Mainstreet]

Maybe but that was a talent laden top 5 which makes it a horse of a different color. And in addition to the swap Dallas surrendered a top 5 protected pick (it becomes top 3 and unprotected eventually) which has a lot more value than Josh Jackson and the Milwaukee pick.

That's why I said swap of picks and a protected first round pick might do it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You are overvaluing this draft. I'd be shocked if Jackson alone couldn't bring back a top 20 pick. Even with his legal issues I could see a late lotto pick for him. Of course the Bucks pick doesn't have much value but I'd wager a team in the 20's isn't interested in anyone and would rather have the future pick than some gamble this year, especially with a number of teams trying to clear as much cap room as possible.

You can say that after I've repeatedly ripped this draft? Take Zion out of this class and it could be the worst draft of the past few decades. I could be wrong but if I am it has absolutely nothing to do with me overvaluing this draft.

If I'm wrong it's because Jackson has more trade value than the 2nd round pick I suspect he'll return. I think he's worth far more than that to us so if they aren't overly concerned about his off court or locker room issues (if there are any), then I think we'd be fools to get rid of him because I don't believe his trade value is anywhere close to a top 20 pick. Someone will want him but that's because he is expected to be on heavy discount even before this latest incident.

I still see worlds of potential in Jackson so I'd love to be wrong on his value but if he hadn't been a high pick he'd be in the G League or playing overseas. He shows signs of being a very smart basketball player but catch him on the wrong night and he looks like one of the dumbest players ever. And it's not hard to catch him on that night.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's why I said swap of picks and a protected first round pick might do it.

I certainly think it would do it assuming we're still talking about moving up a spot or two for Morant. But the difference here, and what I've been arguing with 1Sun about, is that I believe Jackson and the Milwaukee pick have far less value than something like our top 5 protected 2020 pick.

 

[Mainstreet]

I certainly think it would do it assuming we're still talking about moving up a spot or two for Morant. But the difference here, and what I've been arguing with 1Sun about, is that I believe Jackson and the Milwaukee pick have far less value than something like our top 5 protected 2020 pick.

This is the way I view it as well.

The Bucks first round pick should not have that much value in a trade unless a team can't keep a player because of salary reasons.

 

[Hoop Head]

You can say that after I've repeatedly ripped this draft? Take Zion out of this class and it could be the worst draft of the past few decades. I could be wrong but if I am it has absolutely nothing to do with me overvaluing this draft.

If I'm wrong it's because Jackson has more trade value than the 2nd round pick I suspect he'll return. I think he's worth far more than that to us so if they aren't overly concerned about his off court or locker room issues (if there are any), than I think we'd be fools to get rid of him because I don't believe his trade value is anywhere close to a top 20 pick. Someone will want him but that's because he is expected to be on heavy discount even before this latest incident.

I still see worlds of potential in Jackson so I'd love to be wrong on his value but if he hadn't been a high pick he'd be in the G League or playing overseas. He shows signs of being a very smart basketball player but catch him on the wrong night and he looks like one of the dumbest players ever. And it's not hard to catch him on that night.

You have been down on this draft a lot more than most but I didn't think you had soured on Jackson so much. You're typically a little more optimistic in general. Does the draft lottery have you preparing for the worst already?

Jackson's value is low right now but I think if a team wanted him last season they would have needed to part with a lottery pick, late lottery though. He finished the year strong enough to be worth something like that in return but his arrest has probably hurt his value. I'd still be surprised if we could only get a 2nd round pick for him.

Honestly, I hope we don't find out his trade value because I haven't given up on him. This is an important year for him though.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You have been down on this draft a lot more than most but I didn't think you had soured on Jackson so much. You're typically a little more optimistic in general. Does the draft lottery have you preparing for the worst already?

Jackson's value is low right now but I think if a team wanted him last season they would have needed to part with a lottery pick, late lottery though. He finished the year strong enough to be worth something like that in return but his arrest has probably hurt his value. I'd still be surprised if we could only get a 2nd round pick for him.

Honestly, I hope we don't find out his trade value because I haven't given up on him. This is an important year for him though.

I was against Jackson pre-draft so I actually like him more now than I did when he was in Kansas, both for his play and his off court issues. So, I would say I haven't soured on him at all, I've just soured on his trade value. That's why I keep saying I'd hang onto him if he's not a chemistry issue or a distraction for whatever reason.

He's given us plenty of cause for concern but if he was clean off the court and was coming out with this draft class, Zion is the only one I'd be confident would outplay him when they all hit their prime.

 

[Yuma]

JJ is a valuable guy off the bench. He may not be consistent enough offensively to start. You need guys like him to fill out your roster. Had we picked him in the second round, or later in the first round, we would be talking about what a value pick he is. He is not a horrible player. Chriss is the guy that really disappointed me. With his body that guy should have averaged double digit rebounds.

 

[95pro]

JJ is a valuable guy off the bench. He may not be consistent enough offensively to start. You need guys like him to fill out your roster. Had we picked him in the second round, or later in the first round, we would be talking about what a value pick he is. He is not a horrible player. Chriss is the guy that really disappointed me. With his body that guy should have averaged double digit rebounds.

Chriss to me, had short arms, eye test.

 

[AzStevenCal]

JJ is a valuable guy off the bench. He may not be consistent enough offensively to start. You need guys like him to fill out your roster. Had we picked him in the second round, or later in the first round, we would be talking about what a value pick he is. He is not a horrible player. Chriss is the guy that really disappointed me. With his body that guy should have averaged double digit rebounds.

The stats scream otherwise. Those of that like him (and that includes me) have to make excuses and exceptions for him, that's the only way he can be called anything other than a horrible player. IIRC, he does grade out as the actual worst offensive player in the game (with minimum minutes). I expect him to get much better but right now, he is truly a horrible player.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The stats scream otherwise. Those of that like him (and that includes me) have to make excuses and exceptions for him, that's the only way he can be called anything other than a horrible player. IIRC, he does grade out as the actual worst offensive player in the game (with minimum minutes). I expect him to get much better but right now, he is truly a horrible player.

He has value as an energy guy off the bench and still has upside to get better obviously. Certainly wouldn't want to just dump him at this point.