Week 17 Snap Counts and Thoughts

[oaken1]

We have an abysmal front 7 re: run stoppers. That doesn't mean the defense as a whole can't shut down an offense.

Tell me which of those front 7 would start on good teams based on their ability to stuff the run? I'll wait.

they held the entire dallas team to 45 yards on the ground....with a healthy zeke elliot averaging 1.8 per carry
ill give some of that to **** coaching on mccarthy,..but our guys did the job early and made them not want to run.

 

[Krangodnzr]

A lot more goes into defense than just run defense; pass defense is arguably much more important than run defense. Also, we've gotten some bad coaching against us where the opposition stops pounding the rock. I realize that's part of VJ's plan--the bend but don't break plan that hopes the other team gets impatient. That helps a defense. It also helps the defense if a scheme is put together to help them in their individual deficiencies. I agree that VJ hasn't done that well. That does not, however, mean that these players are all good run stuffers. I think we have below average run stuffers in the front 7. The secondary has done a LOT of work to save their asses on many, many occasions.

I think it's hard to tell. My reasoning is that I have seen way too many situations this season where the Cardinals players just weren't in position to stop the run.

This week they were and they shut down a pretty good run game.

Even against the Colts, the Cardinals stopped Jonathan Taylor six times for no gain or a loss, the most any team in the league has.

So they have had moments of competency and moments of incompetence. I would say from what I see, it looks like a defense that is gearing up to not give up the big pass play at the expense of the run game, but have at times, been good against the run when they have played teams that are known to be run heavy.

 

[Stout]

I think it's hard to tell. My reasoning is that I have seen way too many situations this season where the Cardinals players just weren't in position to stop the run.

This week they were and they shut down a pretty good run game.

Even against the Colts, the Cardinals stopped Jonathan Taylor six times for no gain or a loss, the most any team in the league has.

So they have had moments of competency and moments of incompetence. I would say from what I see, it looks like a defense that is gearing up to not give up the big pass play at the expense of the run game, but have at times, been good against the run when they have played teams that are known to be run heavy.

I'd agree with all of that. The individual talent, IMO, isn't there for the front 7 to just tell the offense we're stopping the run without giving any advantage up in the passing game. I particularly agree that VJ gear up to not give up the big pass play and sacrifices run defense. If we had better front 7 run stoppers, I feel we'd hold up better in those situations.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think it's hard to tell. My reasoning is that I have seen way too many situations this season where the Cardinals players just weren't in position to stop the run.

This week they were and they shut down a pretty good run game.

Even against the Colts, the Cardinals stopped Jonathan Taylor six times for no gain or a loss, the most any team in the league has.

So they have had moments of competency and moments of incompetence. I would say from what I see, it looks like a defense that is gearing up to not give up the big pass play at the expense of the run game, but have at times, been good against the run when they have played teams that are known to be run heavy.

They also made Derrick Henry irrelevant in the Tennessee game.

 

[Stout]

they held the entire dallas team to 45 yards on the ground....with a healthy zeke elliot averaging 1.8 per carry
ill give some of that to **** coaching on mccarthy,..but our guys did the job early and made them not want to run.

You quoted my post without addressing the question.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'd agree with all of that. The individual talent, IMO, isn't there for the front 7 to just tell the offense we're stopping the run without giving any advantage up in the passing game.

We can agree on this premise. Even Chandler Jones and Marcus Golden who are both decent pass rushers have never really been great against the run.

If you think about it, a lot of this IS a function of talent. The Cardinals just haven't thrown a ton of 1st day picks on the DL or OLB. Granted the two picks at ILB are a bit of a doozy though that they aren't having more of an impact.

I particularly agree that VJ gear up to not give up the big pass play and sacrifices run defense. If we had better front 7 run stoppers, I feel we'd hold up better in those situations.

For all of the handwringing, the Cardinals defense has been pretty good. Same with the offense. You'd think that the Cardinals were 5-11 from reading the comments on this board. This team is literally a top five Cardinals team all time. I think we want more and we deserve more after all we've been through.

 

[oaken1]

You quoted my post without addressing the question.

all of them.
they start on this team.

its the scheme...vj expects the front four to disrupt.....but a lot of our guys are a bit light in the ass as we favor speed over power.... Peters is a prototype dlineman... allen, if I recall,...is more suited to 4-3 DE than 3-4 DE due to his length and lower weight.
fotu has good weight but he is 6'5...if he were 6'2 he would be a bit better suited to run stuffing IMO,... the lower center of gravity helps...lawrence is only 308...allen like 280
the scheme puts the LB's in coverage in the middle a lot which means if these guys in the front3 or 4 dont make the stop we are giving up five yards.... jones isnt known as a run stuffer but his quickness helps him make stops behind the line occasionally. Jordan phillips is our biggest dude at 340...he has played well when he is on the field... 3 tackles per game ... just dont know if he will ever play a full season

 

[TheCardFan]

We can agree on this premise. Even Chandler Jones and Marcus Golden who are both decent pass rushers have never really been great against the run.

I don't disagree with you but it seems like Chandler has stepped it up vs the run in the last few games.

 

[TheCardFan]

Right now Collins is chewed up almost $9 million in cap space for 2021 and will use over $10 million in 2022 and over $12 million in 2023.

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[Krangodnzr]

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Cheap starter. Expensive backup.

 

[cardpa]

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My error I was looking at the wrong numbers. Still I rather have a player who contributes in teh first year instead of sitting on the bench.

 

[DVontel]

Chandler might of had his best, or at least 2nd best, game of the season. He was giving one of the best OTs in the league, Tyron Smith, absolute work all game long.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

A lot more goes into defense than just run defense; pass defense is arguably much more important than run defense. Also, we've gotten some bad coaching against us where the opposition stops pounding the rock. I realize that's part of VJ's plan--the bend but don't break plan that hopes the other team gets impatient. That helps a defense. It also helps the defense if a scheme is put together to help them in their individual deficiencies. I agree that VJ hasn't done that well. That does not, however, mean that these players are all good run stuffers. I think we have below average run stuffers in the front 7. The secondary has done a LOT of work to save their asses on many, many occasions.

I think I have said this on the board before, (definitely to Linderbee) that I wouldn't be surprised if the Cards are 'purposely' bad at stopping the run. The will line up/call plays in a way that protects from the pass first.

 

[juza76]

Chandler might of had his best, or at least 2nd best, game of the season. He was giving one of the best OTs in the league, Tyron Smith, absolute work all game long.

His three best games Tennessee Seattle Dallas
Against Lewan, who was coming from an injury and not ready to play
And Tyron Smith who is playing his worse football ever
And Seattle tackles
But i think he will be a force in the playoff

 

[Krangodnzr]

Chandler might of had his best, or at least 2nd best, game of the season. He was giving one of the best OTs in the league, Tyron Smith, absolute work all game long.

Yeah I saw Smith get away with a ton of blatant holds too, so the stat sheet doesn't show just how much Chandler worked him.

 

[Totally_Red]

Cardinal defense needs to get turnovers. Against a team like GB that rarely turns the ball over, and has two very good RBs it is amazing that the defense did enough to give us a chance at the end, even with multiple picks by the GB defense.

With J.J. and Dhop healthy this is/was Super Bowl roster.

 

[Chopper0080]

It shouldn't be a shock that the game we stopped Zeke is the game you heard Budda's name called the most and Murphy had his worst game. This season, Vance has kept his S's deep. He has chosen to prevent the big pass play than adding Budda in the box to stop the run. Vs Dallas Vance turned Budda loose. You can argue that he did it almost too long but that what changed.

Stopping the run is pretty much gap integrity and tackling. That is why Vance plays Joe Walker over Zaven Collins inside. The problem is that the NFL is more of a passing league and it is tough to learn from the bench.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Allen, Peters, Lawrence, Hicks.....there are quite a few decent run stoppers in this group.

I think the biggest issue is the damn scheme, not individual players. Vance is much more concerned (rightfully) about stopping the pass than the run.

That's exactly why Dolphin & Bronco fans hate him lol. That was their #1 gripe about him & now we're seeing it.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Chandler might of had his best, or at least 2nd best, game of the season. He was giving one of the best OTs in the league, Tyron Smith, absolute work all game long.

Plus getting held a whole lot that they didn't call.

 

[Stout]

Cardinal defense needs to get turnovers. Against a team like GB that rarely turns the ball over, and has two very good RBs it is amazing that the defense did enough to give us a chance at the end, even with multiple picks by the GB defense.

With J.J. and Dhop healthy this is/was Super Bowl roster.

No, just no to this. Normally I'd agree, but this conveniently ignores how many weapons/OL the Pack was missing on offense. We should have been MUCH better against them defensively that game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

they held the entire dallas team to 45 yards on the ground....with a healthy zeke elliot averaging 1.8 per carry
ill give some of that to **** coaching on mccarthy,..but our guys did the job early and made them not want to run.

Zeke is definitely not healthy. Had him on my fantasy team this year. Definitely not healthy.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Cardinal defense needs to get turnovers. Against a team like GB that rarely turns the ball over, and has two very good RBs it is amazing that the defense did enough to give us a chance at the end, even with multiple picks by the GB defense.

With J.J. and Dhop healthy this is/was Super Bowl roster.

With a healthy Hudson, Dhop and JJ, we pimp-walk into the Superbowl like bosses. Nobody could stop us, not even GB.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Zeke is definitely not healthy. Had him on my fantasy team this year. Definitely not healthy.

Where you been Ouchie?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Where you been Ouchie?

Banned lol

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Banned lol

Try to stay out of trouble sir! haha.