Crimson Warrior
Dangerous Murray Zealot
>Jameis Winston has entered the chat
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Week 13 of the Arizona Cardinals off season. 04/01/24-04/07/24
- Thread starter Ronin
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>Jameis Winston has entered the chat
Crimson Warrior
Dangerous Murray Zealot
Who's on your Mt. Rushmore of Cardinals (franchise) QBs Solar7?
Solar7
Go Suns
Warner, Lomax, Hart, Palmer.
Not excited about it, and honestly I wasn't around for the Hart & Lomax years, but Kyler's got more work to do before I think of him as much more than Jake Plummer.
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Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
Clown take my man
Jake helped us win playoff games.
Something Kyler has yet to manage
Solar7
Go Suns
Statistically, maybe, in a different era. Jake beat the Cowboys in Dallas in the playoffs. With trash.
I guarantee you, if Kyler has a bad year this year and we replace him at QB, the overall narrative on Plummer is equal if not better to Kyler, at least as a Cardinal.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
Jake threw 20 interceptions. He was garbage.
That team was constantly climbing out of massive holes that Jake dug.
Your take is clown shoes.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
Jake was absolutely a trash QB that we all hoped would sniff Kyler's potential.
And yet,with all that potential Kyler he's yet to sniff Jakes accomplishments
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
Solar7
Go Suns
And Kyler let his team down when it counted. Jake had an okay game, they won, and the trajectory seemed like it would go nowhere but up. Kyler came out and did absolutely nothing, besides one of the worst playoff performances this team has seen in the modern era.
I need to be clear here - my argument is that Kyler is trending to be forgettable, like Plummer.
"Potential." He hasn't done anything of real note. I still haven't seen him make players around him better. He's still a player the fanbase and league argues over all the time.
At the end of the day, potential means nothing if the guy's attitude is in question and never brings us a playoff win.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
@Solar7 feel free to actually refute what I'm saying about Jake. I watched all those games, Jake would throw early interceptions at inopportune times that the team had to climb back from.
The 1998 Cardinals team was the single playoff team I've ever seen.
The 1998 Cardinals team was the single playoff team I've ever seen.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
Jake did none of this either. And he also didn't receive Pro Bowl invitations or Rookie of the Year.
You're just objectively wrong.
Solar7
Go Suns
I watched the games too. I have no problem with saying Jake was never all that good, but also Kyler isn't very good.
He was considered an up and coming NFL QB early on, and Pro Bowl invites meant more back then than they do now. The guy hasn't won us anything, got a controversial extension, got hurt, and played one good game since his return from injury.
This wasn't intended to be a Jake vs. Kyler convo, just that in the annals of a lot of franchise, Kyler has nowhere near "Mt. Rushmore" status. Unless Kyler does something new, 20 years from now we're not going to be talking about KM as some incredible player, maybe just what could have been.
You obviously misunderstand the meaning of "objectively"
Jake's take on this argument!
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Wins are not a QB stat. Kyler may not be great but he has played a lot better than Jake.
Adrian Murrell was a big factor in offense and Aeneas Williams led the defense with 2 INTs! It was a team effort for sure!
C'mon, it was a 9-7 season and we got lucky enough to face the Cowboys after sneaking into the playoffs. Statistics nerds say the 98 Cards were the 3rd worst team to EVER make the playoffs.
It was a fun season, but Jake was not a great QB. Even if Kyler never improves on any of his flaws he is significantly better than Jake. After a bad game, I see a lot of comments questioning if you can win in the playoffs with a QB like Kyler. Jake Plummer is living proof that the answer to that question is yes.
Imagine if Vikings fans lifted Case Keenum up as some sort of great QB. Case lead the Vikings to a 13-3 record and a playoff win, all while having significantly better stats than Jake.
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Solar7
Go Suns
I need to repeat this again... I'm not directly comparing Kyler and Plummer. Neither are all that significant.
Unless something new happens, both QBs will end up in the same tier of "whatever." Murray will not belong on some hallowed "Mount Rushmore" of Cardinals quarterbacking.
Solar7
Go Suns
I hope you realize that you're actually also making the argument here that Case Keenum has comparable stats to Kyler, with Keenum holding a better record.
Edit: Kyler has 3 less wins and the same amount of losses as Keenum. Only 6 passing attempts in difference.
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Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
No I don't.
Kyler has been to Pro Bowls and was a rookie of the year. He has a positive TD to INT ratio.
Jake did none of those things.
The primary judgement on how a player is judged against another is accolades, and Kyler blows Jake away in every way.
Objectively, Kyler Murray is a better player than Jake was.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
This is an unexpectedly passionate convo.
I loved Jake Plummer so much, but looking back he was often really bad until he had to try and make a miraculous comeback against prevent defenses in the 4th quarter.
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