Walter Nolen has a Calf injury to start camp

[kerouac9]

Saying he was drafted with an injury concern is just not true

Well I didn’t say that so nice straw man

 

[BACH]

What do you define as a bust then?

A player that had potential, shown that potential on the field, but got injured is not a bust in my book. BJ nor Jones had any injury concerns for their career longevity coming in.

Is that your list then?

You have 3 busts. Even with your non-conventional definition of a bust that's still a 89% success rate. Yeah, that is absolutely horrible.

 

[BACH]

Well I didn’t say that so nice straw man

So your comment that he was drafted with an injury was unrelated to him being a bust for being injured?

 

[kerouac9]

Is that your list then?

You have 3 busts. Even with your non-conventional definition of a bust that's still a 89% success rate. Yeah, that is absolutely horrible.

Dude do you not read the whole thread? Do you want to have a conversation or just Argue Online? I have no interest in the latter.

There’re tiers between bust and success. I detailed the three guys who are exceeding expectations. I detailed two bust trajectory.

I’d put Tune as a disappointment but not a bust. Benson has been disappointing so far. Wilson has probably been a disappointment. Jon Gaines has been a disappointment.

As I said, lots of incomplete grades from the 2024 draft class; it’s only been a year. But the standard for a great draft class is 2004. Monti hasn’t done that yet.

 

[kerouac9]

So your comment that he was drafted with an injury was unrelated to him being a bust for being injured?

He’s a bust for not being on the field enough and producing well enough when he has been on the field. He’s missed all three training camps he’s been here. He’s not going to play until at least the middle third of the season.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I’d put Tune as a disappointment but not a bust. Benson has been disappointing so far. Wilson has probably been a disappointment. Jon Gaines has been a disappointment.

Agree

But the standard for a great draft class is 2004. Monti hasn’t done that yet.

This

 

[Cardiac]

Very generous definition.

Beej was drafted injured. Monti doesn’t get to write that off.

Jones couldn’t get onto the roster at the end of this season and didn’t show he belonged in this training camp. He’s probably the fifth corner on the roster after we put two vets on IR.

Did we ever truly find out when the original knee injury occurred and if it was before we drafted him surely the medical staff cleared him to be drafted. He did recover in time to play his rookie season and did get 4 sacks. 2nd knee injury is simply bad luck.
Isn't Jones on the 53?

 

[Cardiac]

Bilal Nichols can't get on the field so far he's been a bust

Same thing

Dude is injury free and gets signed in FA and gets injured. That's not a bust but bad luck. I agree he has been basically worthless but that isn't a statement on Monti's talent evaluation skills, just bad luck.

 

[kerouac9]

Isn't Jones on the 53?

Making the 53 in your second season as a third-round pick is not successful.

Dude is injury free and gets signed in FA and gets injured. That's not a bust but bad luck. I agree he has been basically worthless but that isn't a statement on Monti's talent evaluation skills, just bad luck.

Do we get the season back or the contract? It’s not damning, but it is a data point.

 

[Cardiac]

Making the 53 in your second season as a third-round pick is not successful.

Do we get the season back or the contract? It’s not damning, but it is a data point.

First of all thanks for the conversation.
Making the 53 in your 2nd year isn't a negative thing.
The data point isn't a bust imo.

 

[kerouac9]

First of all thanks for the conversation.
Making the 53 in your 2nd year isn't a negative thing.
The data point isn't a bust imo.

Being 6th on the depth chart is a negative

Spending like $25 million to get 5 total starts from Jones and Nichols doesn’t show great acumen.

 

[602 Native]

Who??

Tune was a 5th round developmental QB that have a success rate of what... 0,01% and probably the closest to a bust.

Well they Packers picked Tune up and they have a pretty good success rate with assessing QB talent so maybe Monti isn't an idiot.

These 2 things can't both be true.

 

[unseenaz]

Twisting facts. He was drafted with a minor injury that is very common in the NFL, which is completely unrelated to the injury that has kept him out for a year.

Saying he was drafted with an injury concern is just not true

Careful - by this definition Will Johnson is on bust watch list.

 

[Cardiac]

Being 6th on the depth chart is a negative

Spending like $25 million to get 5 total starts from Jones and Nichols doesn’t show great acumen.

Let's give Jones a bit of healthy time to judge.
So Monti doesn't have a crystal ball, man he sucks. If you are arguing that the Browns were idiots for the deal they gave Watson then I'm with you. The Jones and Nichols deals aren't even close to that.

 

[Cardiac]

These 2 things can't both be true.

Well one of them must then be true. I'll give the nod to Bach and say the Packers acquired Tune to pick his brain since we play them in game 7 this year.

 

[kerouac9]

Let's give Jones a bit of healthy time to judge.
So Monti doesn't have a crystal ball, man he sucks. If you are arguing that the Browns were idiots for the deal they gave Watson then I'm with you. The Jones and Nichols deals aren't even close to that.

Cool. Let’s wait until MOJG get to .500 before saying they’re doing a great or good job.

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Cool. Let’s wait until MOJG get to .500 before saying they’re doing a great or good job.

so are we starting the season 0-0 or 12-22?

 

[Cardiac]

Cool. Let’s wait until MOJG get to .500 before saying they’re doing a great or good job.

That's fair. I'm going be optimistic based on what I've seen but you do you.

 

[kerouac9]

so are we starting the season 0-0 or 12-22?

We’re starting the season 0-0. MOJG are entering 2025 12-22.

That's fair. I'm going be optimistic based on what I've seen but you do you.

Cool. Be optimistic. I try to be extremely accommodating to people who want to hope for the best. But people looking back and saying things are going great isn’t supported by a ton of evidence.

For what it’s worth, I think Monti is an average GM. That’s a challenge because he dug a hole for himself and the other average and better GMs are starting from a hight baseline. Thats why I don’t give much credit for 8-9: that’s the default setting in the NFL.

I think JG might be an above-average CEO-type head coach. Unfortunately, I think he is either the third- or fourth-best head coach in the division, which means he needs a very good QB and above-average personnel elsewhere to consistently succeed.

 

[Cardiac]

We’re starting the season 0-0. MOJG are entering 2025 12-22.


Cool. Be optimistic. I try to be extremely accommodating to people who want to hope for the best. But people looking back and saying things are going great isn’t supported by a ton of evidence.

For what it’s worth, I think Monti is an average GM. That’s a challenge because he dug a hole for himself and the other average and better GMs are starting from a hight baseline. Thats why I don’t give much credit for 8-9: that’s the default setting in the NFL.

I think JG might be an above-average CEO-type head coach. Unfortunately, I think he is either the third- or fourth-best head coach in the division, which means he needs a very good QB and above-average personnel elsewhere to consistently succeed.

Let's just agree to disagree on Monti.
I get Mcvay is better than JG, I think he is top 5 in the NFL. But not sold on the other 2 .

 

[BulldogCard]

Well you know that legendary Cardinals scouting and contract management. No surprises that this roster is littered with busts and disappointments. Hopefully this roster and coaching staff get it turned around. This roster has some promise, but there is a big history of swings and misses; just overthinking in the draft and terrible decisions in free agency. If I were the Cards FO, I would be looking to make trades for a WR and looking for OL in free agency. Anything promising they can find at OL. Maybe contact the Raiders or Dolphins regarding Meyers or Hill. It's a longshot, but they need more good players at receiver, and more depth on OL. Because after what I saw from the backup OL, they'll be in big trouble if they have to rely heavily on backups on the OL. Kyler Murray won't play a whole season if there are too many injuries on the offensive line.

 

[PDXChris]

First of all thanks for the conversation.
Making the 53 in your 2nd year isn't a negative thing.
The data point isn't a bust imo.

He was on IR last season, don't fall for the semantics trap.

 

[kerouac9]

Let's just agree to disagree on Monti.
I get Mcvay is better than JG, I think he is top 5 in the NFL. But not sold on the other 2 .

You aren’t sure that Kyle Shanahan is better than Jonathan Gannon?

Okay bruddah.

 

[kerouac9]

He was on IR last season, don't fall for the semantics trap.

He was healthy enough to start practicing late but wasn’t good enough to join the active roster.

 

[Cardiac]

You aren’t sure that Kyle Shanahan is better than Jonathan Gannon?

Okay bruddah.

KS is good but what was his record last year
They had a bunch of injuries but so did we. You like stats but not so much when they aren't in your favor.