Waiting to trade Crowder

Phrazbit

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I don't get this board's dislike for Randle. Like nearly every NBA player, he has his flaws. But he does things that no one else on the roster is able to do, except for Ayton, who is able but not willing.

Randle spends most of his time on offense lurking around the perimeter and clanking open looks. He is not a very efficient scorer. On defense he just kinda stinks.


One might try to convince themselves that last year was a fluke and he will return to the numbers from his breakout season, but for the rest of his career he's been a bad shooter, 2021 looks like the fluke. Afterwards he got his big contract and he returned to the "meh" player he was previously.
 

sdscard4

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Ain't trading Bridges ...he's just a shot away from being an all star. Before the season I'm doing it all day but seeing him play again he's so damn good for this team. I'd take Randle in a heartbeat. I'd rather do that trade than Durant at this point
 

Phrazbit

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We do this dance every time Mikal is on a heater lol.

I've had this stance for years. Mikal, statistically, is arguably the best player on this team. His on court/off court stats crush everyone else on the roster. He's also never missed a game, he's THE premiere player type in the modern NBA... a true "3 and D". A great 3 point shooter, who's only weakness is that he doesn't shoot enough, and one of the best defenders in basketball.

He's also on one of the best bargain contracts in the league, AND a glue guy AND has said he never wants to play anywhere else.

I'm not giving up this 26 year old who can easily be a key linchpin for a long term contender for a dude who is on the last few years of his career and MIGHT maginally improve out title chances for a year or so... if he doesn't get hurt, like he has several years, or crap the bed in the playoffs, like he did last year.
 

Sparky16

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Jae and Dario for Randle straight up works. If you're interested in Julius Randle. And at this point, I'm leaning to "why not?" We literally lose nothing in this trade so it's all about having to deal with what we get back, which is Randle for 4 years at over 20m per year.
I will take it, his handles would be 2nd best on the team after CP. Its brutal watching Booker try to play point. I like the idea of bringing in some toughness and a legit PF that can score
 

elindholm

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Randle spends most of his time on offense lurking around the perimeter and clanking open looks. He is not a very efficient scorer. On defense he just kinda stinks.

I'm comparing Randle's stats to those of Anthony Davis, who I think is washed but who over his career has often been considered a top player, and Deandre Ayton, whose game we are all familiar with.

Percentage of shots taken inside three feet (career): Randle .359, Davis .346, Ayton .447. Ayton does more of his work right at the rim than either of the other players, but he has the benefit of playing with Chris Paul. Randle has the fewest dunks, by a wide margin. So if we thought Ayton was soft...

Percentage of shots that are three-pointers: Randle .194, Davis .092, Ayton .022. So you're right that Randle spends a lot more time looking for the long ball.

Three-point make percentage: Randle .332, Davis .302, Ayton .266. Not really relevant in Ayton's case, since he takes so few of them. I was surprised at how bad Davis is, since he shoots 1.6 per game and that number has, in some seasons, been much higher. But the real question is whether Randle makes enough from out there to justify shooting them so much. I'd say it's borderline, but, in any case, not a great strength.

Make percentages at 3-10 feet, and at 10-16 feet: Randle .396, .402, Davis .441, .421, Ayton .536, .448. Basically the first of these numbers are shots in the paint but not at the rim, and the second number is midrange. Randle's weakness is evident here, although he's not much worse than Davis. When Ayton is effective, it's because he's making use of the advantage he has on shots from these distances. Randle, in addition to shooting poorly in these ranges, doesn't take many.

Offensive, defensive, total rebounds per 36 minutes: Randle 2.3, 8.4, 10.7, Davis 2.6, 8.0, 10.7, Ayton 3.7, 8.5, 12.2. Defensive boards are remarkably similar; Ayton has the edge as an offensive rebounder.

Defensive rating (low is good): Randle 110, Davis 103, Ayton 109. But Davis has been worse the last couple of years, so this stat is probably a wash.

Based on these numbers, it looks to me that Randle is kind of like a poor man's Anthony Davis -- which is to say, a 2022 Anthony Davis. I agree that that's not very appealing. Randle is overpaid and his contract runs until 2026.

So you've talked me out of him. I still think it wouldn't be a terrible pickup, but it's likely to mean a cost-cutting measure down the road, so overall he's probably not worth it.
 

Mainstreet

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It sounds like the more realistic targets for the Suns are familiar names in Harrison Barnes, Kyle Kuzma and Kenyon Martin Jr.

The Suns may not want to take on the contract of John Collins.

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Covert Rain

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I don't see the Suns being willing to include Mikal.

If we trade for Durant it will be Ayton as the center piece.
Ayton has a right of refusal this season. So, I wouldn't bank on that unless it's what Ayton wants and I don't see him wanting to become part of the perennial nightmare that is the Nets organization. I know if I was him? That team wouldn't be on my list. The Nets are not going to take scraps for KD so to get him Bridges might have to be on the table. Not that I want that.

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John Collins (PF) - 6' 9", 226 lbs
- Pts - 12.6
- Reb - 7.7
- Assists - 0.9
- Blks - 1.4
- TO - 4.4
- FG% - 49.3%
- 3P% - 22.7%
- PER - 13.45
- Salary - 23.5M, 25.3M, 26.5M, 26.5M, (UFA 2026)

Kyle Kuzma (PF/SF) - 6' 9", 221 lbs
- Pts - 18.3
- Reb - 8.1
- Assists - 3.1
- Blks - 0.4
- TO - 2.6
- FG% 45.5%
- 3P% - 32.3%
- PER 14.51
- Salary - 13M, 13M (UFA 2024)

Harrison Barnes (SF) - 6' 8", 225 lbs
- Pts - 11.6
- Reb - 5.5
- Assists - 2.1
- Blks - 0.2
- TO - 1.0
- FG% - 43.9%
- 3P% - 25.5%
- Per 13.10
- Salary - 18.3M (UFA after this season)

Kenyon Martin JR (SF) - 6' 7", 215 lbs
- Pts - 10.9
- Reb - 4.7
- Assists - 1.5
- Blks - 0.7
- TO - 1.2
- FG% - 52.9%
- 3P% - 35.7%
- PER 14.54
- Salary - 1.7M, 1.9M (RFA 2024)
 
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Mainstreet

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I'm not sure why the Kings trade Barnes while they are winning and the contract of Collins is probably too rich. The Wizards are winning as well so maybe they keep Kuzma awhile longer.

The Suns like their slashers so I can see Kenyon Martin Jr. of the Rockets near the top of their list. Martin can also shoot.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I'm not sure why the Kings trade Barnes while they are winning and the contract of Collins is probably too rich. The Wizards are winning as well so maybe they keep Kuzma awhile longer.

The Suns like their slashers so I can see Kenyon Martin Jr. of the Rockets near the top of their list. Martin can also shoot.
Isn’t Martin also the smallest of those guys at 6’7? So another SF playing PF. I’d like to see us get some versatility instead of continuing to send waves of wings (even recognizing that’s the trend in the nba right now.

Booker
Bridges
Cam johnson
Torrey
Lee
Shamet
Ish

All wings.
 

Covert Rain

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Isn’t Martin also the smallest of those guys at 6’7? So another SF playing PF. I’d like to see us get some versatility instead of continuing to send waves of wings (even recognizing that’s the trend in the nba right now.

Booker
Bridges
Cam johnson
Torrey
Lee
Shamet
Ish

All wings.
I updated the info above to include FG%, 3P%, size and weight.
 

Muggz

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Randle spends most of his time on offense lurking around the perimeter and clanking open looks. He is not a very efficient scorer. On defense he just kinda stinks.


One might try to convince themselves that last year was a fluke and he will return to the numbers from his breakout season, but for the rest of his career he's been a bad shooter, 2021 looks like the fluke. Afterwards he got his big contract and he returned to the "meh" player he was previously.
Got a better fit, that we could possibly pull off? Speak up.
Eric Gordon at 33 years old and injury prone?
Grayson Allen at 4 yrs old and just a raging douche?
Or the list of 20 guys in this thread that are playing lights out that we have no freaking chance of getting.
Randle is the best we can get for the price and NY is shopping him, but even this trade wont happen because who the hell wants Jae Crowder.
 

Goldfield

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I’d take Kuzma, he would fit right in perfectly.
 

Mainstreet

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Isn’t Martin also the smallest of those guys at 6’7? So another SF playing PF. I’d like to see us get some versatility instead of continuing to send waves of wings (even recognizing that’s the trend in the nba right now.

Booker
Bridges
Cam johnson
Torrey
Lee
Shamet
Ish

All wings.

I think wings at the PF slot is the new trend. As I'm sure you recall, Monty loved Abdel Nader. He likes those players who can slash, shoot and defend.

The Suns would still likely add a more traditional PF later on but I think talent rules.
 

Mainstreet

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I'd do this trade if Kenyon Martin Jr. is included with Eric Gordon for Jae Crowder.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Phrazbit

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Got a better fit, that we could possibly pull off? Speak up.
Eric Gordon at 33 years old and injury prone?
Grayson Allen at 4 yrs old and just a raging douche?
Or the list of 20 guys in this thread that are playing lights out that we have no freaking chance of getting.
Randle is the best we can get for the price and NY is shopping him, but even this trade wont happen because who the hell wants Jae Crowder.
I would say the current roster is a better fit. I don’t think Randle solves anything for this team.

The Knicks are trying and failing to move him because he has negative value.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I think wings at the PF slot is the new trend. As I'm sure you recall, Monty loved Abdel Nader. He likes those players who can slash, shoot and defend.

The Suns would still likely add a more traditional PF later on but I think talent rules.
I don’t believe this.
 

Mainstreet

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I don’t believe this.

The Suns would still have an open roster spot in the above scenario and loaded with wings and guards, so I think the Suns would add a role playing 4 later on.
 
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