VSL day 8 recap from DraftExpress

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Vegas Summer League Recap, Day Eight

July 13, 2005
Sacramento Kings vs. Los Angeles Clippers

Halftime Score: Clippers 40 Kings 33.

Kings

Jonathan Givony

Kevin Martin- Martin was settling almost exclusively for the outside jumper in the first half. This is not his strong point right now and it wasn’t falling for him. He continued to rebound strong and play defense, and was again playing unselfishly. Martin was shooting 58% from the field before this game started, we’ll see what his average ends up at if he keeps settling for fadeaways like he has so far in the 1st half.

Francisco Garcia- Garcia on the other hand looks a lot better than he has in previous games for the Kings. His jumper was falling for him for once and he combined that with his trademark tough defense, getting in the passing lanes and even coming up with a couple of blocks.

Clippers

Eric Weiss

Chris Kaman-The book is out on Chris. He’s got all the moves, a nice shot, and great size. All Chris needs to do to be an impact center in the NBA is figure out when to do what. Kaman has hit the mid-range jumper, he has gone inside with some nice footwork, and he’s blocked a few shots. I love his skillset and he is easily the best player on the court right now, but he’s made no progress in his shot selection over the course of the week and needs to maximize his efficiency to impress me anymore.




Washington Wizards vs. Orlando Magic

Final Score: Wizards 73- Magic 65

Halftime Score: Washington Wizards 40- Orlando Magic 34

Wizards

Jonathan Givony

Donell Taylor- Taylor is having a nice little game for himself once again. He started off nailing the 18 footer from a couple different spots on the court, taking the ball strong to the basket and finishing, playing defense and even blocking a shot.

Taylor didn’t do much in the 2nd half unfortunately, partially because of a lack of a minutes and partially because he just wasn’t that good.

Peter John Ramos- Ramos showed some sparks here and there, but overall he is a pretty frustrating player to watch. His basketball IQ is low and he makes mistakes in almost everything he does. The problem is, the next time down the floor he’ll make an unbelievable move for a guy his size.

Hiram Fuller- Fuller has quietly had a pretty nice summer league for himself. He continued with that by having an excellent first half against the Magic. He was super active on the glass, he played good defense and blocked or challenged a number of shots, he used his athleticism and length on both ends of the floor and generally just did a good job down low for the Wizards.

Fuller finished with a double double thanks to his excellent effort in the paint and tenacity.

Andray Blatche- Blatche had another up and down game here today, showing a lot of the same things that he showed in the first few games, doing a lot of nice things from the perimeter but struggling a bit to maintain a consistent level of concentration throughout his time on the floor. He rebounded very well, though.

David Hawkins- Hawkins did more of the same of what we’ve been talking about him all along the week here, scoring in bundles, getting to the hoop with ease, playing defense and showing a great attitude and feel for the game. There isn’t much more to say about him really.


Magic

Eric Weiss

Travis Diener-Diener has taken full advantage of Jameer Nelson’s early “retirement” from the summer league. Diener has been hitting his outside shot with consistency and hasn’t needed much space to do so. Travis has also displayed good control of the offense and has collected assists off of a variety of passes, both difficult and fundamental. Though slight of build, Diener hasn’t been exposed on defense to any large degree. On offense, Travis has not had any trouble bringing the ball up against his opponents pressure. Best player for his team by a wide margin.

Diener was solid in the second half. He always puts the ball in a good position for his teammate to score in. Travis had a few really beautiful assists and even made some trips to the basket. Diener needs to add strength if he’s going to be effective long term, but after starting the summer league off slow he’s shown NBA potential in the last couple games.

Jerome Beasley-Jerome has had a pretty solid game for the most part. Beasley’s shot is not falling for him in the first half, but his moves have been fluid and decisive despite being matched up against a variety of different sized defenders. Beasley’s best attribute has been his rebounding. Jerome also was very vocal with his teammates and has tried to be a leader on the floor. Seems very active so far and is getting a long look now that Howard has left.

In the second half Jerome got his shot to fall a bit more, but all his moves to the hoop have been solid so it’s no surprise. Beasley rotated well defensively and really tried to get involved on both ends of the court.

Roger Mason Jr.-Roger really had his game working for him today. Mason’s outside shot was falling with regularity and his drives to the hoop were composed and effective. Roger doesn’t really make anyone else’s game better, but he showed judicious shot selection and moved the ball when he didn’t see an opportunity. Good game for him.




New York Knicks vs. Chicago Bulls

Final Score: New York Knicks 79- Chicago Bulls 77

Halftime Score: New York Knicks 44- Chicago Bulls 37

Chicago Bulls

Jonathan Givony and Eric Weiss

Eddie Basden- Was being a little bit more aggressive today on the offensive end, but not forcing things as usual. Basden knocked down a deep mid-range shot and took the ball strong to the basket in the first half, also rebounding strong and playing very good defense.

In the second half Eddie really upped his defensive intensity. Basden stripped at least two different Knick ball handlers and went in for a sweet finger roll where he hesitated at the cup, while in the air, to avoid the defense and then dropped the ball in with a delicate release. Some people are comparing him a young Bruce Bowen, and defensively it is a sound comparison, but if Eddie continues to explore his offensive game he could be much a much more dynamic player.

Basden must refine his perimeter shooting to take his game to the next level, but with his attitude and work ethic this shouldn’t be a problem. Eddie will also have Ben Gordon as an example to work with and Gordon’s offense is a perfect compliment to Basden’s defense and if the two hit it off they could really help develop one another.

Mario Austin- Austin was passing the ball extremely well once again, not forcing the issue one bit and always looking to make the right play rather than the play that would benefit his statline the most. He scored two very nice baskets in the first quarter and one in the 2nd, but for some reason did not get credit for it on the score sheet. He plays a little too laid back and under control for a competition like this.

Jared Reiner- You would never guess that Jared Reiner is one of the few players on this team with a full NBA season under his belt from the way he as been playing here, he’s shown absolutely nothing on either end of the floor here in any of the games.

New York Knicks

Eric Weiss and Jonathan Givony

Channing Frye- Channing started the game off very strongly for his club, may have been the best player. Frye started the game off with a couple nice post moves, a hook shot with contact and a leaning one-hander. Frye has looked comfortable fighting for positon inside against the Bulls frontcourt and has grabbed a few solid rebounds.

Frye continued to play well in the 2nd half and probably had his best all around game here in Vegas. He ran the floor hard time after time and presented himself well for the pass and easy finish, dunking the ball with authority every time, which is great to see out of him. He had a couple of very strong moves around the basket to finish with his trademark jump hook shot, looking very confident and smooth in the process. Really looked solid outworking his opponent for rebounds down low.

Nate Robinson-Robinson has started this game off a bit out of control, as his 3 turnovers will attest. Still, Robinson continues to show off consistency from long range, hitting his only 3 attempt of the game.

A little more of the same from Robinson in the third quarter, making one good move and then neutralizing it by making a bad one the next time down. It wasn’t a bad game for Nate here, just not as good as we’ve gotten used to seeing out of him in the amazing week he’s had here so far. An alley-oop pass to Trevor Ariza was probably his most exciting play of the game, a far cry from the walking highlight reel we saw in the previous four games here. Still, Nate displayed his excellent court vision on more than one occasion and has a great touch on the spectacular pass as well as the simple. There is a growing consensus around here that Robinson may have gone much lower than his skill set warranted.

David Lee-Lee has gotten extended minutes at the small forward position in each of the last two games and has looked comfortable doing so. Despite a hesitance to shoot from the outside, Lee has made effortless trips to the basket against his opponent thanks to his nice handle and strong lateral movement. When David hasn’t finished with power he’s shown a soft touch around the basket, even switching hands and twisting his body to put himself in a position to finish. Lee’s court vision is a huge plus for a player his size and his ability to come across the lane for rebounds make him a valuable asset.

Lee continued to work his butt off for every second he was on the floor in the 2nd half, being extremely active off the ball and trying to help out as much as he could on the defensive end as a SF, where he is clearly a liability. He proved the scouting report wrong by knocking down a 20 footer from the baseline, but then came back and missed two free throws in a row. Really showed a great sense of spacing and decision making in the open court, as did most of his unit.

Trevor Ariza-Ariza has shown a lot of energy today. He’s been able to tip a few rebounds to himself over taller opponents and get the ball out in transition with speed.

The second half was similar to the first for Trevor. Ariza does everything well, although he doesn’t stand out in any one area. Ariza’s got great length and shows nice vision, especially on the break where he can fill any role required to make the play happen.

Brent Wright- In limited minutes, Wright is putting together a nice little game for himself here. He hasn't done too much in Vegas so far, partially due to the fact that the Knicks aren't giving him minutes and partially due to the fact that he is being played at his NBA position, the three, rather than his true position, the four. Regardless, you can tell that this guy just knows how to play. He is strong, smart, skilled and willing to do whatever it takes to help his team out. He has great hands and feet and can do a little bit of everything out there on the court.

Jackie Butler-For all the Knicks fans who like this kid there’s good news, Jackie’s better than he was last year and has worked to improve his conditioning. Always soft with the touch around the basket, Jackie really showed some nice passing both as a high post man and down on the box. Butler’s range isn’t extensive and he must continue to work on sculpting his body and increasing the speed of his decision making but, as a 20 year old with no high level experience, he’s come a long way.

Feedback for this article may be sent to [email protected] [email protected] .
 

coloradosun

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Alright my post LV Vegas trade proposal

Travis Diener for Barbosa

Magic have Francis and Nelson already. They traded McGrady to get Francis, they traded a 2005 1st rounder for Nelson.

Barbosa would be a replacement for Doug Christie.


Diener last game
16 pts., 12 rebs., 6 asst and 3-4 from 3pt.
 
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Joe Mama

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coloradosun said:
Alright my post LV Vegas trade proposal

Travis Diener for Barbosa

Magic have Francis and Nelson already. They traded McGrady to get Francis, they traded a 2005 1st rounder for Nelson.

Barbosa would be a replacement for Doug Christie.


Diener last game
16 pts., 12 rebs., 6 asst and 3-4 from 3pt.

Andy, thegrahamcrackr, called me this afternoon from Las Vegas. He was watching a game where Diener was playing. He said that Diener would have been a nice choice at #21. He absolutely loves him. He said he reminds him a lot of Steve Nash.

Joe
 

coloradosun

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Joe Mama said:
Andy, thegrahamcrackr, called me this afternoon from Las Vegas. He was watching a game where Diener was playing. He said that Diener would have been a nice choice at #21. He absolutely loves him. He said he reminds him a lot of Steve Nash.

Joe

I remember Diener from the year that he and Wade made it to the Final Four, he had the same court awareness that you see in Nash.

I think Barbosa for Diener would be a great move.

I wonder why we sent them Gortat for only cash in return, I wish there would have been more involved in that deal.

edit: just went back and looked at the details of the Orlando trade for Gortat and it was actually more vague than I thought. It was stated that he was traded for future considerations. I wonder if the Suns did not want to actually finalize a deal with Orlando before they had Johnson and Bell signed. Those deals cannot be announced until after July 22 maybe that is when the future considerations can be announced.

I am holding my breath but there is a chance that we could have already acquired Diener. Folster said that Barbosa was going to moved so that we could move up in the draft, he did not say which round, maybe it was the second.

Gortat and Barbosa for Diener, I have no problem with that.

Chad Ford also stated that he wondered why Orlando picked Diener (he called it an interesting pick) and why Phoenix traded Robinson and Gortat. Orlando did not need a PG (there have been no rumors of Francis being traded) but needed a center, Phoenix had worked out Gortat and everyone thought he would be a great project for the Suns.
 
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green machine

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I thought Diener would go higher than he did, if not for his injury last season he might have. From what I remember watching him he seemed like he had a good shot, along with being a good leader and smart player. Suns would do good in getting him, if that's the case.
 

coloradosun

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I just keep wondering about this, maybe the Suns wanted to give Barbosa a chance in Las Vegas to run the team. If he did not look good this deal would be finalized. Francis and Nelson create too much depth at point but Barbosa makes sense because they are not sure what to expect with Doug Christie. We all are viewing Barbosa more like a 2 guard and maybe Orlando feels the same. With a rotation of Francis, Nelson and Barbosa you have 3 interchangeable pieces.

Secondly, the Magic are rumored to be possibly using the 'amnesty' on Grant Hill.

Thirdly, the salary of Barbosa and Diener plus Gortat may fall within the new 25% thresold on the new CBA and the deal may have to wait for that to be finalized.

Anybody know what the salary is for the 38th pick and the 57th pick. Barbosa's salary for 05-06 is 930K, 75% of that is 700K would that work.
 
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Joe Mama

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coloradosun said:
I just keep wondering about this, maybe the Suns wanted to give Barbosa a chance in Las Vegas to run the team. If he did not look good this deal would be finalized. Francis and Nelson create too much depth at point but Barbosa makes sense because they are not sure what to expect with Doug Christie. We all are viewing Barbosa more like a 2 guard and maybe Orlando feels the same. With a rotation of Francis, Nelson and Barbosa you have 3 interchangeable pieces.

Secondly, the Magic are rumored to be possibly using the 'amnesty' on Grant Hill.

Thirdly, the salary of Barbosa and Diener plus Gortat may fall within the new 25% thresold on the new CBA and the deal may have to wait for that to be finalized.

Anybody know what the salary is for the 38th pick and the 57th pick. Barbosa's salary for 05-06 is 930K, 75% of that is 700K would that work.

Wishful thinking. If the Phoenix Suns had acquired Diener he would be playing with their summer league team. They wouldn't care about Barbosa's feelings or him getting enough playing time if that was the case. I'm not sure teams are allowed to outright sell their draft picks, so they say they traded them for "future considerations".

If Diener looks as good as Andy says Orlando is not going to trade him for Barbosa.

Joe Mama
 

coloradosun

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Joe Mama said:
Wishful thinking. If the Phoenix Suns had acquired Diener he would be playing with their summer league team. They wouldn't care about Barbosa's feelings or him getting enough playing time if that was the case. I'm not sure teams are allowed to outright sell their draft picks, so they say they traded them for "future considerations".

If Diener looks as good as Andy says Orlando is not going to trade him for Barbosa.

Joe Mama

If the trade could not be finalized because of the 25% salary differential the announcement could not come until next Friday. I think both teams wanted each player in the LV Summer League so it did not matter.

Diener has not signed with Orlando yet. Barbosa sat out a game with a strained finger, not a big enough injury for the Suns to keep him from working on his game, but big enough for Orlando to protect their new asset.

Obviously the two teams were in contact on draft night, so there is an outside shot that there could be more detail involved.
 
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Joe Mama

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coloradosun said:
If the trade could not be finalized because of the 25% salary differential the announcement could not come until next Friday. I think both teams wanted each player in the LV Summer League so it did not matter.

Diener has not signed with Orlando yet. Barbosa sat out a game with a strained finger, not a big enough injury for the Suns to keep him from working on his game, but big enough for Orlando to protect their new asset.

Obviously the two teams were in contact on draft night, so there is an outside shot that there could be more detail involved.

have you been consulting with Moulder on this one?

Joe Mama
 

coloradosun

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Yep, this is my summer conspiracy theory. I try to come up with one every summer, last year it was Ratliff, this year Diener. I have got to keep my mind active, it must be the ADHD.
 

playstation

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where is this rumor about grant hill being waived because of the amnesty rule? i have heard nothing of it, and don't really think its legit. they've waited 4 years for him to get good, and now he is. he's got $30M left on his contract, so anything is possible, but just real hard to envision. if its true...wow. somebody's getting an all-star for nothing.
 

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Just got back in town. Diener was by far the most impressive player in the league. The game he played on Weds. had a messed up box score. They gave him 6 assists, but he easily had about 13. I know he was at 9 by half time.

He runs the break perfectly, knows exactly when and where to pass.

He is creative with the ball, but not flashy. Just gets the job done.

He is a surprisingly decent defender, using his intellingence to get steals (faking closeouts for example).
 

PhxGametime

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Maybe there will be a Trade, the reason he dropped was size but a few years backing up Nash and he can put on some extra weight, then take over (well I do believe Nash will be around for awhile) but you know what I mean...
 

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BbaLL_31 said:
Maybe there will be a Trade, the reason he dropped was size but a few years backing up Nash and he can put on some extra weight, then take over (well I do believe Nash will be around for awhile) but you know what I mean...

If he looks as good as Andy is saying Orlando isn't going to trade him for chump change.

Joe
 

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Joe Mama said:
If he looks as good as Andy is saying Orlando isn't going to trade him for chump change.

Joe


The only thing that worries me about him is his durability. Anytime he got hit, and it happened a fair amount, he would have to shake it off. Not sure if he would be able to keep his game up for a full NBA season.
 

coloradosun

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Joe Mama said:
If he looks as good as Andy is saying Orlando isn't going to trade him for chump change.

Joe

I wouldn't consider Barbosa chump change. Gortat might have been a good faith gesture.

I read somewhere that the rookie minimum contracts are going to increased due to the new CBA, so that could be one explaination for a delay on any trades involving a second round choice and an existing contract.
 

Joe Mama

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coloradosun said:
I wouldn't consider Barbosa chump change. Gortat might have been a good faith gesture.

I read somewhere that the rookie minimum contracts are going to increased due to the new CBA, so that could be one explaination for a delay on any trades involving a second round choice and an existing contract.

Colorado, if he was part of the trade going to the Phoenix Suns he would have played for their summer league team. if minimum contracts are increased that would only make a possible trade more likely to have been done already. Face it buddy. Unless he's part of a future deal involving other players he's not coming to the Phoenix Suns for next season.

Joe Mama
 

coloradosun

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Joe Mama said:
Colorado, if he was part of the trade going to the Phoenix Suns he would have played for their summer league team. if minimum contracts are increased that would only make a possible trade more likely to have been done already. Face it buddy. Unless he's part of a future deal involving other players he's not coming to the Phoenix Suns for next season.

Joe Mama

Joe

Not if they could not complete the deal because of salaries and the new CBA.

Chris Duhon was the 38th pick last year and will make 790K next season, Barbosa is due 930K next season. With the new CBA allowing for a 25% difference in salary the deal could not be completed until the new rules became official on July 22nd.

Why was Barbosa pulled from the lineup in the last few games because he hurt his "pinky". I don't think the Suns would hold him out for that.
 
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myrondizzo

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coloradosun said:
Joe

Why was Barbosa pulled from the lineup in the last few games because he hurt his "pinky". I don't think the Suns would hold him out for that.
maybe they watched him dominate scrubs enough and realized it wasnt helping much and they wanted to get a better look at some of the other guys on the squad.
 

Joe Mama

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coloradosun said:
Joe

Not if they could not complete the deal because of salaries and the new CBA.

Chris Duhon was the 38th pick last year and will make 790K next season, Barbosa is due 930K next season. With the new CBA allowing for a 25% difference in salary the deal could not be completed until the new rules became official on July 22nd.

Why was Barbosa pulled from the lineup in the last few games because he hurt his "pinky". I don't think the Suns would hold him out for that.

if that was correct... I don't think it is, but let's say it was correct. I don't think you would see either of these guys playing in the summer league. I also don't believe that the new CBA has to be officially finished in order for these moves to be made. I mean we already have players signing for when the new CBA is going change the minimum.

By the way, I believe that deal you brought up could be done because those contracts are within 15% of each other. That deal could be done under the old CBA or the new one.

Look, if you want to indulge yourself in this fantasy go right ahead. I won't bug you about it anymore. :)

Joe Mama
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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coloradosun said:
Joe

Not if they could not complete the deal because of salaries and the new CBA.

Chris Duhon was the 38th pick last year and will make 790K next season, Barbosa is due 930K next season. With the new CBA allowing for a 25% difference in salary the deal could not be completed until the new rules became official on July 22nd.

Why was Barbosa pulled from the lineup in the last few games because he hurt his "pinky". I don't think the Suns would hold him out for that.


your theory is crazy.
 

Mainstreet

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coloradosun said:
If the trade could not be finalized because of the 25% salary differential the announcement could not come until next Friday. I think both teams wanted each player in the LV Summer League so it did not matter.

Diener has not signed with Orlando yet. Barbosa sat out a game with a strained finger, not a big enough injury for the Suns to keep him from working on his game, but big enough for Orlando to protect their new asset.

Obviously the two teams were in contact on draft night, so there is an outside shot that there could be more detail involved.


Is it July 22nd yet. I mean the heat is getting to me. Even the conspiracy theories are sounding good. Tell me more coloradosun. :)

It's kind of like the movie, Conspiracy Theory... maybe one of us will get one right. :thumbup:
 

coloradosun

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Mainstreet said:
Is it July 22nd yet. I mean the heat is getting to me. Even the conspiracy theories are sounding good. Tell me more coloradosun. :)

It's kind of like the movie, Conspiracy Theory... maybe one of us will get one right. :thumbup:

The heat is getting to me as well, got over 100 in Denver yesterday, so this all could be a halucination.

If the grahamcracker and I, who are not professional scouts, can see that Diener would be a great fit in Phoenix I would assume the actual scouts could see the same thing. Barbosa did not do much to improve his point guard skills in Vegas, I would think that the Suns would have to consider a trade like this.

Orlando has Francis and Nelson and even brought Duhon as a possible singee, something has to be up, I feel it in my bones and am seeing in my mind (that's the heat playing on my mind).
 

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coloradosun said:
If the grahamcracker and I, who are not professional scouts, can see that Diener would be a great fit in Phoenix I would assume the actual scouts could see the same thing. Barbosa did not do much to improve his point guard skills in Vegas, I would think that the Suns would have to consider a trade like this.


I talked to several basketball ops people there, everyone was raiving about diener. It would be very hard for the Magic to move him now.
 

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coloradosun said:
If the grahamcracker and I, who are not professional scouts, can see that Diener would be a great fit in Phoenix I would assume the actual scouts could see the same thing. Barbosa did not do much to improve his point guard skills in Vegas, I would think that the Suns would have to consider a trade like this.

I think maybe you are giving some professional scouts too much credit. IMO after scout Percondani died for the Suns, there drafting has not been as good except for Stoudemire.

I mentioned the other day that recently Golden State seem more astute in selecting talent. However, Portland has been good since I can remember at collecting quality talent, but of course, some of their players have turned out to be problem children.

Sometimes, I think Phoenix just not look for quality big men, especially in the second round, where many can be found for development, e.g., Gadzuric and Boozer. I believe that was the year the Suns drafted Casey Jacobson late in the first round.... not a bad player but most of the fans on this Board wanted the Suns to select another big.

Perhaps the Suns need to look at strenghtening their scouting.

There are times when I feel the Suns give away draft picks away a little too freely (both first and second rounders).

The Suns, except for a few exceptions, have always had problems finding big men where some lessor teams have several.
 

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