Two trade proposals

[hcsilla]

Trade #1 (suggested also on this board)

PHO trade

Anfernee Hardaway

PHO get

Clarence Weatherspoon
Othella Harrington
Travis Knight

NYK get a quality swingman who can play even some point. They clear a roster spot for Matt Carroll.


Trade #2

PHO trade

Tom Gugliotta
Brevin Knight
Cezary Trybanski
CLE's pick

PHO get

Tony Battie
Eric Williams
Chris Mills

This trade works only after Dec 20th when Mills will be moveable again.

BOS get rid of Battie's contract who is probably tradeable after getting of LaFrentz and recovering of Baker. Gugliotta can get some minutes as a backup PF and Trybanski can block some shots as a backup C.Knight would be servicable for them as an unselfish, 1st pass PG. They like Williams but Brown seems to be improving and they got also Jones and Welsch.That's another rebuilding move where they acquire one more 1st rounder.



WHY IT COULD WORK FOR PHO:
Battie is an imprevement C and can backup also Stoudemire.Weatherspoon and Harrington are better backups than Gugliotta. They immediately cut Knight and Mills.They dump about 2 mil. from their pay-roll this year which saves 4 mil.
Travis Knight's expiring deal covers Battie's deal in the next 3 seasons. Hopefully Joe Johnson is ready to take the starting SG spot. Eric Williams would be a nice, veteran defensive-minded swingman.

LINE-UP:
PG-Marbury/Barbosa
SG-Johnson/Williams/Jacobsen
SF-Marion/Cabarkapa/Williams
PF-Stoudemire/Weatherspoon/Harrington
C- Battie/Voskuhl/Williams/(Sheppard)

 

[SirStefan32]

As far as the first one goes, I am in no hurry to get rid of Hardaway. Unless Kurt Thomas or the right to Milos Vujanic are included, I would not even consider doing this trade.

I like the 2nd one. Battie would fit really well. He is a very tough guy, he can run, he can defend, he can rebound, and he can knock down jumpers.

 

[slinslin]

I don't like Weatherspoon at all and that's why I don't like the first trade. But that might also just be a personal feeling.

Overall the trades would help us but not as much as if Charlie Ward would be included.

Joe Johnson or Hardaway starting doesn't make a difference anyway.
The argument that the Suns played better with Penny healthy is bogus. Every team will play better at 100% than at 90%.
Penny is injury prone.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
As far as the first one goes, I am in no hurry to get rid of Hardaway. Unless Kurt Thomas or the right to Milos Vujanic are included, I would not even consider doing this trade.

You are demanding too much.Don't forget that Suns move Penny Hardaway.....

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by slinslin


Overall the trades would help us but not as much as if Charlie Ward would be included.

Of course including Ward would be even better but to be honest I doubt that NY would do the 1st trade even without Ward.

 

[slinslin]

And why would the suns want Milos Vujanic anyway? One of the most overrated european players to be their third string PG?

They could just offer Sarunas Jasikevicius (who is much better) a contract instead of trading for the rights to Vujanic and signing him.

 

[green machine]

I don't see us unloading Googs. Unless we were one player away from a title I can't see dumping him doing any good.

After this year we get Googs' contract off the books, just in time for Marion's extension. If we were to trade Googs we'd have to take on salary to even it out. That would defeat the whole purpose of getting rid of him.

adam

 

[Espo]

i think all these deals are a waiste of time to talk about. I think that this team is still a few years out and i want to see bryan colangelo stick to his plan. I think we can add a key role player in free agency next year and with the rest of the team maturing we can be right in the mix for the west. Especially with the new divisions next year. Talk trade in February if we are in the mix for a top playoff spot until then let the roster stay the way it is. We arent as small as everyone seems to think. We arent going to find a center out there now that can compete with Duncan and Shaq. If the suns run a line up of Maurbary, Johnson, Marion, Zarko and Amare out on the floor that is a fairly big lineup even though Amare would be the only real post-up threat. Even if you take zarko out and put in Googs, williams, or little jake, you still have a decent size lineup. i think if zarko develops you could at certain times in the game move Marion to the two spot put zarko at small forward play amare at power and williams at center and you have a fairly good lineup too. or go Stephon, JJ, Marion,Zarko, and Amare. WE have a good core lets just see what happens early on in the season.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by green machine
I don't see us unloading Googs. Unless we were one player away from a title I can't see dumping him doing any good.

After this year we get Googs' contract off the books, just in time for Marion's extension. If we were to trade Googs we'd have to take on salary to even it out. That would defeat the whole purpose of getting rid of him.

adam

Actually Suns get expiring contracts (Mills and Williams) for Googs in these deals so they acquiring Battie without giving cap relief in 2004.
Moreover they get even more cap relief in 2004 since they dump Trybanski as well.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by PHX Phan
i WE have a good core lets just see what happens early on in the season.

And these deals don't touch our good core at all.

These deals

1. dump Suns' worst contract
2. bring a decent STARTING C
3. save money this and next season
4. don't reduce the cap flexibility next season

 

[Errntknght]

I do see a ray of hope in the Hardaway trade... if the team doesn't play any better this year without him on the floor than it did last year even BC may figure out Frank Johnson is a pathetic coach.

I'd like the second trade better if the Suns could throw in both Voskuhl and Williams... let's face it, the fewer options Frank has at center the better. Of course, he'd still play small ball a bunch but at least he'd have only one center to put of the floor when he did go 'big'. You never know, with enough PT Battie might settle in and do a decent job despite Frank's 'coaching'.

 

[elindholm]

I don't think Battie is the answer at center for the Suns. He isn't much larger than Stoudemire (6' 11", a mere 240) and he's quite injury-prone.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
I don't think Battie is the answer at center for the Suns. He isn't much larger than Stoudemire (6' 11", a mere 240) and he's quite injury-prone.

Anyway he is significantly better than Voskuhl.

BTW, who is the answer at C for the Suns?
It doesn't seem to be likely that you can get Shaq, Ming, Miller, Curry or Magloire.

 

[slinslin]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/1025suns1025.html

A league source told The Arizona Republic that the Suns and Boston Celtics have discussed a possible deal that would send Celtics center Tony Battie to Phoenix, possibly for point guard Brevin Knight. So far, however, no deal appears imminent.

Battie is a 6-foot-11, 240-pounder who wouldn't eat up much more space in the paint than the big men the Suns already have on their roster. He also has three years remaining on his contract; Knight has only one. But centers are difficult to come by.

 

[elindholm]

I think this would be fine if the Suns are willing to spend the money on Battie in '04-'05 and '05-'06, but I'd be surprised if they are. It will be a good sign if the Suns make this trade -- it will show that they are aware of the disaster in the middle and are willing to spend a little to try to address it.

 

[elindholm]

Anyway he is significantly better than Voskuhl.

I'm not so sure about that. It depends on how much "significantly" is.

BTW, who is the answer at C for the Suns?

The point is, it's not worth giving up a lot for a player who won't help much anyway. In your trade #2, the Suns give up a first pick and also take on Weatherspoon. That's too high a price, in my opinion.

But if the Suns make the Knight/Battie trade -- which basically means adding Battie for free, other than salary -- that seems fine to me.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
Anyway he is significantly better than Voskuhl.

I'm not so sure about that. It depends on how much "significantly" is.

Battie is tougher, a better leaper and shotblocker and has a better mid-range J than Voskuhl has.

The point is, it's not worth giving up a lot for a player who won't help much anyway. In your trade #2, the Suns give up a first pick and also take on Weatherspoon. That's too high a price, in my opinion.

Suns take Weatherspoon's contract but move Penny's which almost 3 times bigger than Weatherspoon's.

In these 2 deals Suns get Battie, Weatherspoon and Harrington for Penny who fill a bigger need than Penny would if JJ is ready to take the starting spot and all 3 players have much more moveable contracts than Penny has.
Suns save 4 mil. this year.

Are these things worth a future mid 1st rounder?IMO, they are.

But if the Suns make the Knight/Battie trade -- which basically means adding Battie for free, other than salary -- that seems fine to me.

You worry about taking of Weatherspoon's contract instead of Penny's but it's fine to take Battie's contract - who isn't a significant (if at all) improvement at C - instead of Knight's expiring one.

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

Originally posted by slinslin
I don't like Weatherspoon at all and that's why I don't like the first trade. But that might also just be a personal feeling.

Overall the trades would help us but not as much as if Charlie Ward would be included.

Joe Johnson or Hardaway starting doesn't make a difference anyway.
The argument that the Suns played better with Penny healthy is bogus. Every team will play better at 100% than at 90%.
Penny is injury prone.

Did you watch any of the games last year? I think it makes a big difference.

 

[slinslin]

Yes I watched the almost every game last year.

The point is every team that isn at less than 100% of their strength will play worse than it did when at 100%.
If Hardaway was injured or anyone else.

Besides that Joe Johnson is looking much much improved so he should easily take Penny's starting position anyway.

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

The reason Penny should start over Johnson is not because he'll put up better numbers than him its because he'll keep the offense moving smoother playing with marbury. The whole team was healthy the start of the season last year but lost everygame that penny was on the bench. The minute he started, with marbury, they started doing much better. Johnson can score as much as he wants but he won't get the same amount of shots playing wiht a line up of marbury, marion and amare. Penny is also shooting a better percentage than him taking less shots.

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

Maybe NY can trade keith van horn for penny.

 

[slinslin]

The team lost at the beginning of last year because of that thing called "motion offense".

Penny is a weak link on defense and tends to play very sloppy and careless.

Joe Johnson is a better defender, better 3pt shooter, more athletic than Penny and has a lot more untapped potential.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by slinslin
The team lost at the beginning of last year because of that thing called "motion offense".

Penny is a weak link on defense and tends to play very sloppy and careless.

Joe Johnson is a better defender, better 3pt shooter, more athletic than Penny and has a lot more untapped potential.

Historically, Penny hasn't been that careless of an offensive player (weak defense, yes).

I think his turnovers and "lazy passes" last year had alot to do with the thumb injury.

Just trying to be fair with the player.

 

[slinslin]

He did it before the thumb injury and after it.

In the playoffs at one point it looked like Penny wanted out of the game because of something. It looked like he didn't even want to be on the floor.

Some passes that Penny throws are just so lazy and forseeable it was just bad.

Also how often did Penny try to drive baseline and step out of bounds? I can remember him doing that same mistake several times even in crunch time ( Shawn Marion was guilty of it as well).

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin

In the playoffs at one point it looked like Penny wanted out of the game because of something. It looked like he didn't even want to be on the floor.

This is purely speculation and does nothing except fuel unsubstantiated accusations.