This team has quit, so I want my money back.

[ajcardfan]

Bryant has sucked yes. But, the way he's been handled by the team has been atrocious. There was no bending on the mincamp deal for him, or the rookie deal. That put him behind the eight ball immediately. Not surprisingly, he does little last season. Even worse, they practice him at two positions all last year, meaning he really had no chance to get full speed at either one.

This year, they decide to bulk him up and play him at DT only. He shows good flashes in preseason, then gets hurt. Then, when he returns, he's switched to DE. So, now all his bulking up is actually a liability. And, on top of it, he's not 100% on that leg which is more of a liability at DE. If they wanted him at DE, he should've spent the offseason slimming down and building speed off the ball.

Bryant is by far the most we've ever screwed up in handling a draft pick in recent years. We've botched it so bad, you really can't tell if he's a true bust or not. Last year, he should've been practing one spot, and even one situation. For example, 3rd down pass rush DT. This year, he should not have been switched back to DE.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
he was talking about criticism of the cards and he said something like those expletives have been saying that since before a lot of the expletives in the lockerroom were even here.

I assumed the first one rhymed with basspole but I couldn't frankly guess what he meant with the 2nd one since I took it to mean he was calling his teammates an expletive, but in a good way.

I took the secoind expletive as a shot...and not a nice one. But that was my interpretation which is why I said he was placing blame elsewhere.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
I ma making excuses?

Your the one calling Bryant's season bad because of his ankle sprain.

I am not making excuses for Pace. But unlike you, I am willing to give the kid a chance. How can you say "...he might develop into a nice complimentary player someday"? Thats ridiculous.


As for Bryant, well I have seen one very distrubing thing (one that Johnson, Pace, and even fat Marcus Bell dont do) and that is Bryant has zero motor. He gives up on the play and relaxes way to much. Stands up and dances with the guard until the play is by him...maybe that can be blamed on his ankle now, but what about the past 2 years?

Case in point Strahan had 3 tackles 1 sack as a rookie, only 4.5 in year 2, and broke the NFL single season sack record. And he was a 2nd round pick probably not rated a whole lot differently than Pace was at the same point. Not saying he's going to be a Strahan but I bet the Giant fans in year 1 and 2 didn't forsee what Strahan has become. One thing people overlook is there's a HUGE difference in being the LDE to the RDE, even Strahan is still a LDE and doesn't match up with the elite RT's. Simeon Rice bless his heart said that when Strahan broke the sack record, if he's so good, how come he won't move to RDE?

The big problem I have with Wendell is supposedly we moved him to DE awhile back, one would assume in that move he'd try to take off some weight to get faster, but his gut is getting bigger week to week. I just don't see the work ethic in the games and I'm not seeing it off the field. He came into camp in good shape, everyone said so, is the ankle sprain THAT bad that he can't stay in shape, and if it is why isn't he on IR?

I haven't given up on him but i expected a breakout year from the guy and he's not even close.

 

[MAKTEN]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
he was talking about criticism of the cards and he said something like those expletives have been saying that since before a lot of the expletives in the lockerroom were even here.

I assumed the first one rhymed with basspole but I couldn't frankly guess what he meant with the 2nd one since I took it to mean he was calling his teammates an expletive, but in a good way.

Thank you for the clarification. I don't normally see him quoted in the papers, so I was interested in what he had to say.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Case in point Strahan had 3 tackles 1 sack as a rookie, only 4.5 in year 2, and broke the NFL single season sack record. And he was a 2nd round pick probably not rated a whole lot differently than Pace was at the same point. Not saying he's going to be a Strahan but I bet the Giant fans in year 1 and 2 didn't forsee what Strahan has become. One thing people overlook is there's a HUGE difference in being the LDE to the RDE, even Strahan is still a LDE and doesn't match up with the elite RT's. Simeon Rice bless his heart said that when Strahan broke the sack record, if he's so good, how come he won't move to RDE?

The big problem I have with Wendell is supposedly we moved him to DE awhile back, one would assume in that move he'd try to take off some weight to get faster, but his gut is getting bigger week to week. I just don't see the work ethic in the games and I'm not seeing it off the field. He came into camp in good shape, everyone said so, is the ankle sprain THAT bad that he can't stay in shape, and if it is why isn't he on IR?

I haven't given up on him but i expected a breakout year from the guy and he's not even close.

couldnt agree more.

And Strahan is very good. Whether he were to move to RDE or not he would still be solid. (single season sack record solid? No, but solid nonetheless) Hell Strahan routinley gets 70 tackles a season and is in the top 10 or so for TFL.

Anyway, your point is very valid. Given the chance Pace might very well turn into the same mold. who knows. But after 13 games, facing elite tackles, and being thrown into a starting role, we just dont know yet. However, we are starting to see Bryant's production a little more clearly now.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Originally posted by MAKTEN
can anyone tell me what wendell said in the paper...did he even say anything.

Exact quote from the paper:


Added defensive tackle Wendell Bryant, "Those (expletives) have been saying that since long before I got here, since long before most of these (expletives) got here. It’s cliché, but you can’t worry about what everyone is talking about."

 

[Brevity]

Bryants quote almost sounds like he is washing his hands of their performance.

*This team has been losing long before any of us got here and none of us are going to change that*

At this point I question his motivation.

 

[SeattleCard]

This team is disgusting. They have taken the "fun" out of fall sunday afternoons. Now I look at sundays with mild anticipation wondering what good matchups will be on, outside our sorry team. At least we got #81 this year - without him it would be even worse.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
couldnt agree more.

And Strahan is very good. Whether he were to move to RDE or not he would still be solid. (single season sack record solid? No, but solid nonetheless) Hell Strahan routinley gets 70 tackles a season and is in the top 10 or so for TFL.

Anyway, your point is very valid. Given the chance Pace might very well turn into the same mold. who knows. But after 13 games, facing elite tackles, and being thrown into a starting role, we just dont know yet. However, we are starting to see Bryant's production a little more clearly now.

I will say this, given what Suggs has done even if Pace were the starting LDE and had 4-5 sacks, he'd be betting ripped because Suggs has been so good.

I think the Giants were smart with Strahan, when he got good they didn't decide to just move him to the other side, he's getting sacks off the "vision side" why move him to the blind side?

Of the top 5 sack guys in the NFL this year, Simeon Rice is the only RDE, Strahan, Ogunleye, Rucker and Ellis all play against RT's every week. Rice may be a jerk but he's a hell of a pass rusher 15 sacks again this year.

 

[conraddobler]

No one is a bust until the new guy says they are and that's my viewpoint and I am sticking to it.

You simply can't tell a whole lot of anything out of this cluster we have going on. Desperation has caused playing people out of position, there has been precious little player development and schemes are as bad as they can legitimately be in the NFL.

If we manage to get a very good coach I will not be suprised to see people get better everywhere along the whole team. There will also be people thought to be safe or good who may turn out to be run out of town really fast and some who we thought would be or are busts will turn out to be in fact busts. It just isn't real easy to know who that will be yet.

I think the two biggest suprises next year will be Bryant who finally sticks at end Josh McCown at QB.

I still think we are out of time to just stick with him at QB no matter how good he does we either have to get a quality FA QB or draft Eli or Ben R. No more casting about desperately for the next QB savior. Nail it down and let them come out of a competition pit and may the best slinger win the job.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

WB

Originally posted by SECTION 11
To be more specific, I want Wendell Bryant to reimburse me.

11 tackles, zero sacks, zero forced fumbles, zero knocked down passes through 13 games. Only two assists through 13 games!! TWO!!
Nice hustle. Nice effort. Way to play. I'm inspired.

He's a turd that should be flushed.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I don't think that Wendell has played well all year, but look at the old tapes from before he hurt his ankle, and he was the ONLY D-lineman getting ANY push. Am I disappointed with his season? Yeah, but I'll back a player when I think he's getting too much heat.

As for McKinnon, I only hit on him when I think that people are getting a little too into a guy who doesn't make plays in coverage, and lets an RB drag him for three more yards as often as he gets to him in the hole, and was letting a rooke 6th round pick break his crappy arm tackles last week in Chicago.

Pace I'm just saying is underachieving. What was the one great play he made this season? Dennis Johnson's highlight reel is longer. He was supposed to be the starter, just on the other side. Make all the excuses you want (god knows Mistler and Pasch have been all season), but the guy has had NO impact this season. He was up against another Rookie LT who was taken lower than him yesterday and (surprise, surprise) had no impact. He might develop into a nice, complementary player, but people were comparing him to Simeon Rice in the preseason, and he hasn't had ANYWHERE near that kind of effect. Maybe it's the coaching, but I expect more from a healthy 1st round rookie DE than I do a 2nd year DT with an ankle sprain.

There may have been a valid arguement for Pace's play when he has gone up against the better LT in the league. But at this point he is no where even close to being a first round pick.

I am certain that we will get a new coach next year. Mac is done. I just hope the new coach will be able to salvage Pace's confidence. This goes for Bryant as well.

One more year and I will no longer be a nice guy when it comes to this team.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Originally posted by RedStorm
There may have been a valid arguement for Pace's play when he has gone up against the better LT in the league. But at this point he is no where even close to being a first round pick.

I am certain that we will get a new coach next year. Mac is done. I just hope the new coach will be able to salvage Pace's confidence. This goes for Bryant as well.

One more year and I will no longer be a nice guy when it comes to this team.

Agree that Pace has been disappointing. Whats kind of sad is how much money he and Johnson are getting. But then think of Carson Palmer. Anyway, theres no way we give up on Pace yet. Excellent points by Russ Smith on Pace in this thread.

As far as Bryant, I disagree with those that are condeming him, and agree with those saying he has been mishandled (hey, it happens) However, next year is a make or break year for him. If he has fifteen tackles for 2004, his butt ends up on the waiver wire in January 2005.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by conraddobler

You simply can't tell a whole lot of anything out of this cluster we have going on.

No truer words have ever been written!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by RedStorm
There may have been a valid arguement for Pace's play when he has gone up against the better LT in the league. But at this point he is no where even close to being a first round pick.

I am certain that we will get a new coach next year. Mac is done. I just hope the new coach will be able to salvage Pace's confidence. This goes for Bryant as well.

One more year and I will no longer be a nice guy when it comes to this team.

It isnt an excuse. Take a look at who he plays against week in and week out. Regardless that arguement is irrelevant b/c my whole point is that I just cant codemn the kid yet after 13 games in his ROOKIE season.

He has had flashes where he has put pressure on the QB time after time but didnt get the sack. He has had flashes of playing the run very very well. and he has had flashes were he danced with the LT as the play moves past him.

He still has the speed, athleticism, smarts, and frame to be a very good DE. Perhaps getting s stud pass rusher and moving Pace over to the other side might work, who knows?

I have a feeling that if he works hard this off season on his rush moves he will improve greatly next year!

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Another beautifully executed first round pick.

But still a pick that almost everyone was happy with!

He was a position of need and considered by many to be the best DT available. Heck he was considered to be the best out of the 5 that came out that year by some people.

Hard to argue with the selection!

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Shane H
But still a pick that almost everyone was happy with!

He was a position of need and considered by many to be the best DT available. Heck he was considered to be the best out of the 5 that came out that year by some people.

Hard to argue with the selection!

However, making the pick and then developing the pick are two different ballgames. I maintain the Cards haven't done good by developing Wendell and in return Wendell has done his impression of the Invisible Man.

I agree at the time it was a good pick but the execution part is more than what happens on a specific day in April.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
To be more specific, I want Wendell Bryant to reimburse me.

11 tackles, zero sacks, zero forced fumbles, zero knocked down passes through 13 games. Only two assists through 13 games!! TWO!!
Nice hustle. Nice effort. Way to play. I'm inspired.

Oh boy!

I want to be re-imbursed by Brian Gilmore.

I could poop in a sock, throw it out on the field, and get more production.

Peace

 

[Shane]

Originally posted by AZCB34
However, making the pick and then developing the pick are two different ballgames. I maintain the Cards haven't done good by developing Wendell and in return Wendell has done his impression of the Invisible Man.

I agree at the time it was a good pick but the execution part is more than what happens on a specific day in April.

Agreed but with this team its nothing new!

I come to expect it!

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Shane H
Agreed but with this team its nothing new!

I come to expect it!

If the Cardinals EVER hope to have any success, they have got to get first round production out of their first rounds picks. It is very depressing.

Maybe as depressing as the nightmare I had last night about Miami firing Wannstedt and Graves falling all over himself to hire the guy. If that really happens....it won't be pretty.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I don't think that Wendell has played well all year, but look at the old tapes from before he hurt his ankle, and he was the ONLY D-lineman getting ANY push. Am I disappointed with his season? Yeah, but I'll back a player when I think he's getting too much heat.

As for McKinnon, I only hit on him when I think that people are getting a little too into a guy who doesn't make plays in coverage, and lets an RB drag him for three more yards as often as he gets to him in the hole, and was letting a rooke 6th round pick break his crappy arm tackles last week in Chicago.

Pace I'm just saying is underachieving. What was the one great play he made this season? Dennis Johnson's highlight reel is longer. He was supposed to be the starter, just on the other side. Make all the excuses you want (god knows Mistler and Pasch have been all season), but the guy has had NO impact this season. He was up against another Rookie LT who was taken lower than him yesterday and (surprise, surprise) had no impact. He might develop into a nice, complementary player, but people were comparing him to Simeon Rice in the preseason, and he hasn't had ANYWHERE near that kind of effect. Maybe it's the coaching, but I expect more from a healthy 1st round rookie DE than I do a 2nd year DT with an ankle sprain.

Think I see where this is going.

They all suck.

And I agree they do. There should be drastic lay off after the last game of the season in order to create cap room for next year.

Peace

 

[KingofCards]

Originally posted by Brevity
Bryants quote almost sounds like he is washing his hands of their performance.

*This team has been losing long before any of us got here and none of us are going to change that*

At this point I question his motivation.

Reporter: " There's no 'I' in team."

Bryant: "Yeah, there ain't no we either."