The Tough Questions and the Disturbing Patterns

[Mitch]

1. Crisper 57 started an excellent post about "When Did You Know" the season was going into the tank.

For me---there is no question---the moment was last January when Ken Whisenhunt's response to Kurt Warner's retirement was appointing Matt Leinart as the clear starter.

There was no cred in that move whatsoever---it made no sense. Sure it made sense to have Leinart "in the mix"...but to annoint him the clear choice...in light of a) his poor play in 2009; b) the impending escalators in his contract which could make him the next Antrel Rolle; and c) the dubious perceptions around the league about Leinart.

Can you imagine what the players thought of Whisenhunt's decision to crown Leinart's arse?

The questions are:

a) Was Whisenhunt acting on his own accord, or was he basically told by the FO to make Leinart "the guy" and to coach him up and make him fit?

b) For a coach whose mantra is centered on "creating competition" for every position---wasn't the Leinart decision hypocritcial?

c) Did Whisenhunt at ANY point really feel that Leinart could be "the guy"?

My hunches are:

a) Leinart was forced on Whiz the way Clancy Pendergast was.

b) Whiz was acting out of character by making such an appointment in January.

c) No. Whiz never ever even remotely felt that Leinart could be "the guy."

Thus...the tough question here is...just how much of a disconnect is there between Whisenhunt and the FO?

It felt to me like Whisenhunt was coaching this season in a vindictive manner...as if he was trying to hammer home his point to the FO that hey you are handcuffing me and the team.

Next tough question: If Whisenhunt and his coaches indeed pleaded with the FO to go and sign Marc Bulger, why would the FO balk at the idea?...especially when they had already planned to give Warner $11M that season and weren't paying Leinart and Anderson half of that combined for this season. What did Bulger sign for in Baltimore? Two million? Think it would have worth another two million to have an added fallback plan if indeed Leinart and Anderson struggled or got injured?

Are the Bidwills that cheap?

Are they that pigheaded about the players they want to play?

Why wouldn't they listen to the one coach who ever took them to the Super Bowl?

Next tough question: What is up with Assistant Head Coach/Running Game Coordinator/Offensive Line Coach Russ Grimm?

Has he virtually no influence on Ken Whisenhunt?

I mean---really---does anyone think Grimm was happy with the direction of this offense?

How many times did the cameras catch Grimm standing alone on the sidelines looking like he was standing there carved in stone?

How about the look on his face?

The question is: is Russ Grimm simply a figurehead?

When Russ Grimm is standing there, is he thinking to himself, man I should have beaten Whisenhunt to this job...because what's going on here is ridiculous?

You have to wonder.

Has Russ Grimm been simply going through the motions and biding his time?

Next: will Ken Whisenhunt ever put a respectable defense on the field in Arizona? You know the kind that shows up every week?

Does he even know what it takes to build a defense?

Did anyone catch the innuendo of his remarks today regarding coaching changes?

He said that with the lockout looming that it would make it tough to put in a new system.

Does that mean there will be no major changes on the defensive staff?

Whiz had already stated that he felt there was little need to change the offensive staff...which, in truth, is about as vanilla a staff as you can get. There's no coach on it who coaches with an edge---noone even remotely like Todd Haley.

Are the coaches on this staff, including Whisenhunt himself, capable of developing confidence in any QB who is not named Warner?

This is a major concern...and one of the major reasons why this coaching staff is on shaky ground moving forward.

They had Matt Leinart in their system for three years. And when Leinart wasn't getting coached by them he was learning from a sure first ballot Hall of Famer---and he's so bad at the end of those three years that he doesn't make the team, even when he's the only QB on the roster who really knows the system?

What players have gotten consistently better in Whiz's system?

Levi Brown?

Can you really say that about him?

Larry Fitzgerald? Is he nearly as dynamic as he was when Haley was challenging him?

Steve Breaston? Was it Warner who built him up? The coaches?

The offensive line in general?

The tight ends?

The running backs?

Why was Whisenhunt POUNDING Beanie Wells into the opposing defenses play after play in the second halves of meaningless pre-season games?

Even worse, why did that continue after Wells got hurt?

Wells came into this season in great shape and with the attitude that he was going to take the offense on his back.

Why was Wells treated like a mule?

These questions could go on and on---and I hope you will add any and all questions you have---because it will be cathartic for us to try to come up with and understand the answers.

Lastly---did anyone else find it curious that Whisenhunt is finally talking about "being honest" with the players now that the season is over? Wasn't it curious that he said that because of "personal feelings" he had developed for some of his players, he's been letting things go?

One of the best moves Whisenhunt ever made was benching Edgerrin James---becuase it sent a clear message to the entire team---even if you are a star player, you'd better perform.

That move helped spawn the three game winning streak over the NFC West teams that year---that sealed up the first NFC West Championship.

Yet, this year---Whiz admits he let some things go out of personal feelings?

Again---this is the guy who certainly enamored me and many of you with his philosophy about "creating competition" and that "the best players play."

Why would or should that philosophy ever change?

 

[82CardsGrad]

Good questions Mitch... we'll never know the facts, but, it's fun to contemplate and guess nonetheless... I'll add one or two of my own:

1.) Who really controls talent acquisition? It's been said that decisions rest solely with Whiz, yet, we all know that Whiz isn't writing the checks...What role does Graves play, if any? And, how involved are Bill and Mike, respectively, in the decision-making process? I think if these questions could somehow get answered, we just might have a more clear understanding of what went down with Matty... and perhaps Dansby as well.

2.) Do the players trust Whiz? After a mass exodus of talent, where all were essential players in the "glory years" of this team, Whiz failed miserably by all measures. I honestly can't think of one move/decision Whiz made that panned out. Rhodes was a very nice addition - but, many seem to see that as a wash with Rolle. A few of his draftees showed promise...but, who cares when you only win 5 games and consistently get destroyed in your losses... particularly to your division rivals!! I wonder what players like DD, Wilson, Fitz, Campbell, DRC, Rhodes, Deuce really... I mean really think about Whiz? His play-calling is putrid and laughable. He then thinks about handing off the duties to Mike Miller?? Who??? Is that a joke??
He chose Billy Davis. And by any measure, Davis has been an enormous failure. Yet, nothing changes there. Why? Russ Grimm... seriously... ok, he's now officially a Hall of Famer. However, how many Hall of Famers have become great coaches?? Not many... and Russ is yet another Hall of Famer who seems incapable of transferring his playing skills to the coaching realm. Yet, even though by ALL measures, what Grimm has been responsible for has failed miserably, nothing changes... Why?
Of course, the way in which Whiz dealt with the Matty situation must have, at minimum, confused many players... it was awkward and extremely atypical of what would normally occur in similar situations throughout the NFL when you have a first rounder sitting behind a future hall of famer for 3 years. It's virtually indefensible that the first rounder gets CUT the year the future hall of famer retires! Wow...
His dealings with Q.... what sort of taste did that leave with the players?
His handling of Beanie Wells.... where he consistently down-played the seriousness of Beanie's knee injury, in the process putting Beanie in a completely compromised position where he simply had no other choice but to continue to play, or, face the ridicule that would come from people who would not know how bad he was actually hurt. Why do that? Why not give Beanie and the rest of the team the respect they deserve and simply face up to how bad he was hurt?
Going with Hall over Skelton... Ok, this is splitting hairs perhaps... But, I think it's fair to suggest that Skelton was/is more NFL-ready than is Hall. Yet, Whiz consistently painted Skelton as not being ready. Not wanting to "damage" him. Yet, somehow, he thought playing Max Hall was a better option? What does that say?? Does he care more about Skelton than Hall? He didn't mind seeing Hall get beat around like a hack-a-sack? Heck, Skelton has a ton to learn, but can you seriously say that he was worse or looked worse than Max Hall?? What was Whiz really thinking there??
So - all of that and more... what has that done to the way the players feel about him, and can they/do they still trust him? If the answer is "no", we are all in for a long period of 5 win seasons....

 

[THESMEL]

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning with a coach threatening to kick him in the Nuts every chance He got. I couldn't disagree with you more Mitch. I respect your opinion but disagree.

I stand by my post that the Cards should have invested in Matt leinart and went all in when Kurt Retired. They should have gave him a 6 year $100 Million contract with the bonus money up front in the uncapped year, If He failed they could cut him after 2.

This grab you by the throat and see how you respond culture does not work and is not even pretended on other teams. Like playoff teams. If you want the best out of Tom, Peyton, Drew or Matt Leinart you treat them like men.

And Matty's 1 start in 3 years was decent, His rookie season was excellent, in spite of Whiz not preparing him by starving him for snaps, I understand your view. But Matt Leinart and the rest of this team was prepared to fail.

Matt leinart will be an elite QB for the next 10 years probably in the NFCW but not for the Cardinals. He's that good, Did you see what he did in spite of Whiz's efforts on this awful team in August!

Deuce, Reggie Wells, Rolle, Cody Brown, Q, Kurt, Dansby, Freaking leonard Pope how about Mcfadden going back to the Super Bowl, Cause Davis asked him to do what he was not built to do!

Every unit on both sides of the ball is broken, worse of the worse division ever in History of earth. Its not the players its how they are handled.

Now maybe somebody on here understands me, Putting The Bean on the Bench behind THT is a crime. and Whiz is busted.

 

[Pariah]

was [Whis] basically told by the FO to make Leinart "the guy" and to coach him up and make him fit?

If that's the case, you'd think he would have had to play with him on the roster this past season. If The Cardinals were set on ML, then there's no way Whis would get the green light to cut him virtually on the eve of the season.

[Leinart] was learning from a sure first ballot Hall of Famer...

An aside: I don't think many people outside of AZ think Warner is a first-ballot guy. The conversation I hear is "is Warner a HoFer?" Not "Is Warner a first-ballot HoFer?".

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Wow, Mitch, interesting comment on Grimm being "carved in stone" because I've noticed the same thing.

At Fan Fest this year I heard someone in the autograph line congratulate Grimm on his Hall of Fame selection. The man did not react. Not a smile. Not an acknowledgement. Nothing. Which surprised the heck out of me because most people would react in that situation with a huge grin. So since that time I've kind of watched him. Can't figure out if he's just not an emotional guy or what, but you nailed what I've observed.

 

[Darkside]

1. Crisper 57 started an excellent post about "When Did You Know" the season was going into the tank.

For me---there is no question---the moment was last January when Ken Whisenhunt's response to Kurt Warner's retirement was appointing Matt Leinart as the clear starter.

There was no cred in that move whatsoever---it made no sense. Sure it made sense to have Leinart "in the mix"...but to annoint him the clear choice...in light of a) his poor play in 2009; b) the impending escalators in his contract which could make him the next Antrel Rolle; and c) the dubious perceptions around the league about Leinart.

Can you imagine what the players thought of Whisenhunt's decision to crown Leinart's arse?

The questions are:

a) Was Whisenhunt acting on his own accord, or was he basically told by the FO to make Leinart "the guy" and to coach him up and make him fit?

b) For a coach whose mantra is centered on "creating competition" for every position---wasn't the Leinart decision hypocritcial?

c) Did Whisenhunt at ANY point really feel that Leinart could be "the guy"?

My hunches are:

a) Leinart was forced on Whiz the way Clancy Pendergast was.

b) Whiz was acting out of character by making such an appointment in January.

c) No. Whiz never ever even remotely felt that Leinart could be "the guy."

Thus...the tough question here is...just how much of a disconnect is there between Whisenhunt and the FO?

It felt to me like Whisenhunt was coaching this season in a vindictive manner...as if he was trying to hammer home his point to the FO that hey you are handcuffing me and the team.

Next tough question: If Whisenhunt and his coaches indeed pleaded with the FO to go and sign Marc Bulger, why would the FO balk at the idea?...especially when they had already planned to give Warner $11M that season and weren't paying Leinart and Anderson half of that combined for this season. What did Bulger sign for in Baltimore? Two million? Think it would have worth another two million to have an added fallback plan if indeed Leinart and Anderson struggled or got injured?

Are the Bidwills that cheap?

Are they that pigheaded about the players they want to play?

Why wouldn't they listen to the one coach who ever took them to the Super Bowl?

Next tough question: What is up with Assistant Head Coach/Running Game Coordinator/Offensive Line Coach Russ Grimm?

Has he virtually no influence on Ken Whisenhunt?

I mean---really---does anyone think Grimm was happy with the direction of this offense?

How many times did the cameras catch Grimm standing alone on the sidelines looking like he was standing there carved in stone?

How about the look on his face?

The question is: is Russ Grimm simply a figurehead?

When Russ Grimm is standing there, is he thinking to himself, man I should have beaten Whisenhunt to this job...because what's going on here is ridiculous?

You have to wonder.

Has Russ Grimm been simply going through the motions and biding his time?

Next: will Ken Whisenhunt ever put a respectable defense on the field in Arizona? You know the kind that shows up every week?

Does he even know what it takes to build a defense?

Did anyone catch the innuendo of his remarks today regarding coaching changes?

He said that with the lockout looming that it would make it tough to put in a new system.

Does that mean there will be no major changes on the defensive staff?

Whiz had already stated that he felt there was little need to change the offensive staff...which, in truth, is about as vanilla a staff as you can get. There's no coach on it who coaches with an edge---noone even remotely like Todd Haley.

Are the coaches on this staff, including Whisenhunt himself, capable of developing confidence in any QB who is not named Warner?

This is a major concern...and one of the major reasons why this coaching staff is on shaky ground moving forward.

They had Matt Leinart in their system for three years. And when Leinart wasn't getting coached by them he was learning from a sure first ballot Hall of Famer---and he's so bad at the end of those three years that he doesn't make the team, even when he's the only QB on the roster who really knows the system?

What players have gotten consistently better in Whiz's system?

Levi Brown?

Can you really say that about him?

Larry Fitzgerald? Is he nearly as dynamic as he was when Haley was challenging him?

Steve Breaston? Was it Warner who built him up? The coaches?

The offensive line in general?

The tight ends?

The running backs?

Why was Whisenhunt POUNDING Beanie Wells into the opposing defenses play after play in the second halves of meaningless pre-season games?

Even worse, why did that continue after Wells got hurt?

Wells came into this season in great shape and with the attitude that he was going to take the offense on his back.

Why was Wells treated like a mule?

These questions could go on and on---and I hope you will add any and all questions you have---because it will be cathartic for us to try to come up with and understand the answers.

Lastly---did anyone else find it curious that Whisenhunt is finally talking about "being honest" with the players now that the season is over? Wasn't it curious that he said that because of "personal feelings" he had developed for some of his players, he's been letting things go?

One of the best moves Whisenhunt ever made was benching Edgerrin James---becuase it sent a clear message to the entire team---even if you are a star player, you'd better perform.

That move helped spawn the three game winning streak over the NFC West teams that year---that sealed up the first NFC West Championship.

Yet, this year---Whiz admits he let some things go out of personal feelings?

Again---this is the guy who certainly enamored me and many of you with his philosophy about "creating competition" and that "the best players play."

Why would or should that philosophy ever change?

I disagree about the part where you wonder whether Whiz tried to stick it to the FO and about being vindictive (regarding the QB situation). Whis has nothing to gain by that and everything to lose. When it's all said and done, he's responsible for wins. That's it, wins. No one cares who tied your hands or who forced their will on you because every coach deals with that. In the end, all that matters is if Whis won games, and after this pathetic season, if there was a power struggle, Whis lost.

I do, however, see an interesting link between his jockeying with the FO and his own admission that he let personal feelings--about players--cloud his judgement. To me, this signals that if there was any type of "power struggle" or having his hands forced by the FO, that he was so enamored with certain players and certain talent that he believed he could coach his way out of those handicaps.

He also made a point in his interview today to specifically say that certain players "think they're better than they are." Bickley wrote that in the player exit interviews many were going to leave unhappy with what they heard from Whis. Whoever these players are, Whis too must have thought they were better than they are.

Maybe we thought they were better than they are. Maybe Warner and some others hid those deficiencies.

Couple things I'd like to know:

1. Why the insistence on trying--after almost 4 years--to convert to a 3-4 defense when we obviously don't have the linebacker depth or talent? What we do have is a hella-badass defensive line in Dockett, Campbell, Williams, and whomever else you want to throw in there to play a 4-3.

2. Who thought DA could complete passes? Who's ego looked at DA's college and pathetic Pro stats and believed they could improve him? Sometimes you just are what you are. DA introduced us to a whole new level of suck.

3. I'm all for loyalty, and Whisenhunt's "promote from within" philosophy looks good on paper, but in reality sometimes it takes an outside eye to properly evaluate a team and its strengths and weaknesses. I get it that Whisenhunt still feels like he got screwed over in Pitt but destroying your own career to prove a point is foolish. He says he has a system, and hasn't brought in an OC yet. He's probably afraid the OC will look at his "system" and tell him it's crap without a HOF QB.

HOF QB's are a blessing and a curse. The blessings are obvious, but the void they leave is unmistakable (look at Denver). They mask tons of deficiencies from the coaching staff to the players to the schemes to formations to everything.

 

[Mitch]

Wow, Mitch, interesting comment on Grimm being "carved in stone" because I've noticed the same thing.

At Fan Fest this year I heard someone in the autograph line congratulate Grimm on his Hall of Fame selection. The man did not react. Not a smile. Not an acknowledgement. Nothing. Which surprised the heck out of me because most people would react in that situation with a huge grin. So since that time I've kind of watched him. Can't figure out if he's just not an emotional guy or what, but you nailed what I've observed.

Yeah, Dems, they ought to just carve a statue of Grimm, place him in the proximity of the bench and let the real breathing Grimm go watch a Springsteen concert!

 

[THESMEL]

We are fixing to give the 5th overall draft pick and more for Kevin Kolb, Reid gave him a 1 year 12 million dollar extension, He's a back up all year to their new starter after sending a hOFFER in mcnabb to Washington.

You watch and let me tell you my grade, Matt is a much better QB that Kevin Kolb, Equal to Vick and Mcnabb. And we let him off the hook! for nuthin.

Matt Leinart was as good as Kurt Warner after Kurt declined in 2009, no mVp, numbers, pro bowl on this Cardinals team. and if anyone thinks Matt got a fair shake, I feel asorry for you.

Again this aint my first rodeo as a fan.

 

[82CardsGrad]

We are fixing to give the 5th overall draft pick and more for Kevin Kolb, Reid gave him a 1 year 12 million dollar extension, He's a back up all year to their new starter after sending a hOFFER in mcnabb to Washington.

You watch and let me tell you my grade, Matt is a much better QB that Kevin Kolb, Equal to Vick and Mcnabb. And we let him off the hook! for nuthin.

Matt Leinart was as good as Kurt Warner after Kurt declined in 2009, no mVp, numbers, pro bowl on this Cardinals team. and if anyone thinks Matt got a fair shake, I feel asorry for you.

Again this aint my first rodeo as a fan.

You seriously need to go start a www.ilovemattleinart.com site! Wow...

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We are fixing to give the 5th overall draft pick and more for Kevin Kolb, Reid gave him a 1 year 12 million dollar extension, He's a back up all year to their new starter after sending a hOFFER in mcnabb to Washington.

You watch and let me tell you my grade, Matt is a much better QB that Kevin Kolb, Equal to Vick and Mcnabb. And we let him off the hook! for nuthin.

Matt Leinart was as good as Kurt Warner after Kurt declined in 2009, no mVp, numbers, pro bowl on this Cardinals team. and if anyone thinks Matt got a fair shake, I feel asorry for you.

Again this aint my first rodeo as a fan.

Your obsession with Leenart is pretty creepy. Just sayin... I have to say, I do admire your unwavering devotion to him though, despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

[Mitch]

I disagree about the part where you wonder whether Whiz tried to stick it to the FO and about being vindictive (regarding the QB situation). Whis has nothing to gain by that and everything to lose. When it's all said and done, he's responsible for wins. That's it, wins. No one cares who tied your hands or who forced their will on you because every coach deals with that. In the end, all that matters is if Whis won games, and after this pathetic season, if there was a power struggle, Whis lost.

I do, however, see an interesting link between his jockeying with the FO and his own admission that he let personal feelings--about players--cloud his judgement. To me, this signals that if there was any type of "power struggle" or having his hands forced by the FO, that he was so enamored with certain players and certain talent that he believed he could coach his way out of those handicaps.

He also made a point in his interview today to specifically say that certain players "think they're better than they are." Bickley wrote that in the player exit interviews many were going to leave unhappy with what they heard from Whis. Whoever these players are, Whis too must have thought they were better than they are.

Maybe we thought they were better than they are. Maybe Warner and some others hid those deficiencies.

Couple things I'd like to know:

1. Why the insistence on trying--after almost 4 years--to convert to a 3-4 defense when we obviously don't have the linebacker depth or talent? What we do have is a hella-badass defensive line in Dockett, Campbell, Williams, and whomever else you want to throw in there to play a 4-3.

2. Who thought DA could complete passes? Who's ego looked at DA's college and pathetic Pro stats and believed they could improve him? Sometimes you just are what you are. DA introduced us to a whole new level of suck.

3. I'm all for loyalty, and Whisenhunt's "promote from within" philosophy looks good on paper, but in reality sometimes it takes an outside eye to properly evaluate a team and its strengths and weaknesses. I get it that Whisenhunt still feels like he got screwed over in Pitt but destroying your own career to prove a point is foolish. He says he has a system, and hasn't brought in an OC yet. He's probably afraid the OC will look at his "system" and tell him it's crap without a HOF QB.

HOF QB's are a blessing and a curse. The blessings are obvious, but the void they leave is unmistakable (look at Denver). They mask tons of deficiencies from the coaching staff to the players to the schemes to formations to everything.

I think your response is outstanding...and agree with it...except the first part. The moves Whisenhunt made this year in personnel on the offense and in the utterly inane playcalling cost this team a legitmate chance to three-peat. Plus...he allows for too many embarrassing losses and, imo, has lost his team becasue of it. Like he said, "it's harder to deal with close losses." Er, wrong coach, close losses build character....blow outs deflate character.

I don't think this guy watches tape. In all seriousness. I watched almost all of the 49er games this year...and if it's one thing they did well more than anything else it was defend screen passes...and yet as AWFUL as he has taught this team to sell and execute screens, he calls a screen pass on 3rd and 7 in the first half which, of course, was blown up at the spot. This was just when Skelton was getting a better rhythm too.

It felt like me that in key situations Whisenhunt would call the play least likely to succeed....it was uncanny...just as it was when he refused to go for it on 4ths and short, even in the opponent's territory.

Remember you are punting the ball back to a defense that is quite capable of laying down at any moment.

 

[Assface]

Lastly---did anyone else find it curious that Whisenhunt is finally talking about "being honest" with the players now that the season is over? Wasn't it curious that he said that because of "personal feelings" he had developed for some of his players, he's been letting things go?

Talking about this:

Whisenhunt said he had gotten “emotionally attached” to some players, judging them on what they had done in the past instead of the present. That was something he learned over the course of the season, something he plans to correct going forward.

Since Whisenhunt has admitted that he's held on to old impressions of players I wonder if that has any relevancy to how he handled Matt Leinart. When Matt broke his collarbone he helped break down film every week and worked with Kurt and the coaching staff to put together the game plan for the next opponent. When it was announced that next preseason would feature an open competition between him and Kurt for the starting job he was one of the first people at the facility every day working. Yet when Whisenhunt arrived Matt was the Heisman winning, "Hollywood" QB from USC who didn't yet know just how much more work the required to be successful than college did and I'm not sure Whiz ever moved on from that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We are fixing to give the 5th overall draft pick and more for Kevin Kolb, Reid gave him a 1 year 12 million dollar extension, He's a back up all year to their new starter after sending a hOFFER in mcnabb to Washington.

You watch and let me tell you my grade, Matt is a much better QB that Kevin Kolb, Equal to Vick and Mcnabb. And we let him off the hook! for nuthin.

Matt Leinart was as good as Kurt Warner after Kurt declined in 2009, no mVp, numbers, pro bowl on this Cardinals team. and if anyone thinks Matt got a fair shake, I feel asorry for you.

Again this aint my first rodeo as a fan.

you have to be either mentally ******** or Matt's 11 year old cousin. I can come to no other conclusion based on your horrific grammar and just general idiocy.

 

[Mitch]

you have to be either mentally ******** or Matt's 11 year old cousin. I can come to no other conclusion based on your horrific grammar and just general idiocy.

That's lame, cheese. I love ya man but stay classy and cool, will ya?

 

[bg7brd]

you have to be either mentally ******** or Matt's 11 year old cousin. I can come to no other conclusion based on your horrific grammar and just general idiocy.

YOU NAILED IT!!!!! LOL

 

[Catfish]

Mitch old friend-----one of the most disturbing patterns I have noticed about Whiz, is his propensity for calling his own plays. One would think that after this sad excuse for a football season, he would be questioning his own success, (or utter lack of it), at least where play-calling is concerned. Yet when asked about that in his interview on KTAR today, he said that he felt that he had been pretty successful in calling his own plays, and went on to say that he saw no real reason not to continue to do so.

I found that extremely bothersome. He had just made what I believe was a huge admission on his part that some of his trusted and most valued players did not perform as they should have, and that he needs to address that. He as much as admitted that he let friendship get into the mix of whether, and where a man played. In that sense, it really confirmed to me that he allowed his like or dislike of the person affect whether or not that person played, or where he played. Performance really had little to do with his decisions in some cases. I believe that this trait had a far greater effect on this team than he is even now willing to acknowlege. I have said all along that he did not put all his players into a position from which they could succeed. I believe that he even carried this farther than that, and that he placed some players in a position from which only failure could result. How else can one deduce that Derek Anderson out performed Matt Leinart, or that Hightower was a better choice than Beanie, or that Daryl Washington rode the bench for so long during the season.

If you limit the opportunities for a player to engage, then you task him to perform unrealistic things, how can you not view him as the failure that you perceived he was before you even gave him a chance to prove otherwise? And by doing this, what are you doing to a young player's confidence when he cannot possibly please his coach? That is precisely what he did with Leinart by having the ground rules be different for him than they were for Anderson. The same can be said for starting his trusted Bryan Robinson every game this year, after having made it clear to Dan Williams that every game that Robinson started was proof that Williams was not doing his job. One can also include Daryl Washington here, because he was played at the SILB spot instead of the WILB position where his talents were far better suited. Even so, when he was allowed onto the field, he made a difference, as did Dan Williams. But how much damage was done with each of these two rookies in the process? Who would blame them for choosing to leave such a situation when their contract expires, just as many other good players have opted to do.

As I said, it was a positive sign when Whiz acknowleged that he allowed his personal friendship to influence who played and who didn't, although it was a terrible thing for a coach to do. It is even worse that he stacked the so-called competition between other players who were led to believe that the playing field would be equal. To me, he has violated his right to expect loyalty and trust from not only the players which he forced this behavior upon, but to those who witnessed it happening. I don't know how he can ever expect his players to trust him in the future. That is a bad position from which to go forward in my opinion.

 

[LarryStalling]

I think you can clearly define the ineptitude of the coaching staff. Mike Miller is being groomed to become the offensive coordinator. Well, just what kind of background does he have. He has not played a down of football in the pro's or better yet even in college. If he was the talent evaluator of Matt Leinart shame on him, but what background does he have to make such a measurement. I remember someone on here saying that the players are certainly aware of what kind of background their coach has and to some extent that is the starting point for what kind of respect that the player has initially for the coach. They must be laughing all the way to the bank (so to speak) with the folly that the Cardinals trotted out for the offensive coordinator this year. it kind of reminds me of the trial that the Cubs tried years ago of rotating head coaches as the season went along. What a farce that was as was this years offensive experiment!

 

[Red Dawn]

Speaking of disturbing patterns, in retrospect it seemed the rise of Doucet last year seemed to foreshadow the departure of Anquan. This year, I can't shake the feeling that the frequent targeting of Roberts the last few games of the season is foreshadowing the departure of Stevie B. I realize injuries played a part in both situations. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Buckybird]

Great, great stuff Mitch!!!

A few things:
1) I don't think the team has any desire to resign Breaston. I think they see him as injury prone like Boldin & will not invest $5-7 mil in a player they see as an injury risk regardless of his skillset. There is a reason Roberts was added in the draft & playing most of the time the last few games.

2) If Wiz doen't fire Davis sometime this week & hire someone to run the offense other than 1 of the Millers, he will seal his fate after this season.

3) I really believe Wiz is smart enough to make changes in this roster next year & will have a serviceable QB sometime before the season if there is one. 2010 opened Wiz's eyes to his faults, but did it open both eyes? It's a long way back to respectability IMO & it's starts with adding a big time QB somehow, someway!!!

Are the Bidwills that cheap?

Yes they are, though I think most of cheapness still comes from Mr B. The "same old Cards" still exists & anyone who doesn't believe that needs to look no farther than the seasons of 2010 & 1999. I'm afraid this will never change until Bowtie is eating ice cream in the sky!!!

 

[cardpa]

Mitch old friend-----one of the most disturbing patterns I have noticed about Whiz, is his propensity for calling his own plays. One would think that after this sad excuse for a football season, he would be questioning his own success, (or utter lack of it), at least where play-calling is concerned. Yet when asked about that in his interview on KTAR today, he said that he felt that he had been pretty successful in calling his own plays, and went on to say that he saw no real reason not to continue to do so.

I found that extremely bothersome. He had just made what I believe was a huge admission on his part that some of his trusted and most valued players did not perform as they should have, and that he needs to address that. He as much as admitted that he let friendship get into the mix of whether, and where a man played. In that sense, it really confirmed to me that he allowed his like or dislike of the person affect whether or not that person played, or where he played. Performance really had little to do with his decisions in some cases. I believe that this trait had a far greater effect on this team than he is even now willing to acknowlege. I have said all along that he did not put all his players into a position from which they could succeed. I believe that he even carried this farther than that, and that he placed some players in a position from which only failure could result. How else can one deduce that Derek Anderson out performed Matt Leinart, or that Hightower was a better choice than Beanie, or that Daryl Washington rode the bench for so long during the season.

If you limit the opportunities for a player to engage, then you task him to perform unrealistic things, how can you not view him as the failure that you perceived he was before you even gave him a chance to prove otherwise? And by doing this, what are you doing to a young player's confidence when he cannot possibly please his coach? That is precisely what he did with Leinart by having the ground rules be different for him than they were for Anderson. The same can be said for starting his trusted Bryan Robinson every game this year, after having made it clear to Dan Williams that every game that Robinson started was proof that Williams was not doing his job. One can also include Daryl Washington here, because he was played at the SILB spot instead of the WILB position where his talents were far better suited. Even so, when he was allowed onto the field, he made a difference, as did Dan Williams. But how much damage was done with each of these two rookies in the process? Who would blame them for choosing to leave such a situation when their contract expires, just as many other good players have opted to do.

As I said, it was a positive sign when Whiz acknowleged that he allowed his personal friendship to influence who played and who didn't, although it was a terrible thing for a coach to do. It is even worse that he stacked the so-called competition between other players who were led to believe that the playing field would be equal. To me, he has violated his right to expect loyalty and trust from not only the players which he forced this behavior upon, but to those who witnessed it happening. I don't know how he can ever expect his players to trust him in the future. That is a bad position from which to go forward in my opinion.

Could not agree with this more Catfish.. I have been saying the same things for some time now. The biggest obstacle for Whiz to overcome is Whiz himself.

I also mentioned that he put players in position to fail not succeed.

He has this so called system that he believes in and nothing will cause him to deviate from it. I also do not see him bringing in anyone who might challenge the system. As long as he is promoting within, his system is safe.

I said 8-10 weeks ago that Whiz was playing players based on who he liked better than on ability alone and his mantra of "playing who gives us the best chance to win" was utter BS!

 

[THESMEL]

Creepy

Your total disregard for the well being of the Arizona Cardinals is creepy, What the hell have you been watching for the last 10 years. The only bad game Matt Leinart has had in 10 years was that preseason Oakland game.

name the others?

Kurt had way more horrible games than Matt ever had for the Cardinals. I am not a USC fan, I was a Cleveland Brown fan until The Cards came to AZ in 1988. I watch college but I've been all in on the NFL since I was 4 years old.

The Cards are doomed to repeat history, I've seen it before. But not when Matty was on the field.

Your obsession with Leenart is pretty creepy. Just sayin... I have to say, I do admire your unwavering devotion to him though, despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Your total disregard for the well being of the Arizona Cardinals is creepy

Ha, clearly you don't know anything about me. Per Kurt, I was as big of a darksider as anyone on this board. (with good reason)

What the hell have you been watching for the last 10 years.

Mostly awful football, with the exception of two glorious seasons.

The only bad game Matt Leinart has had in 10 years was that preseason Oakland game.

I don't know why I'm even going through the effort, because what you say is just patently stupid. Anyway, I'll indulge you:

CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
6 9 54 66.7 6.00 16 0 1 1 43.1
13 32 203 40.6 6.34 58 0 2 3 36.3
14 35 157 40.0 4.49 22 1 1 4 51.7
20 38 216 52.6 5.68 43 0 2 1 47.7
20 35 214 57.1 6.11 24 0 2 3 51.4
14 28 102 50.0 3.64 15 1 2 1 41.1
9 20 53 45.0 2.65 10 0 0 1 52.1
7 13 100 53.8 7.69 27 0 1 1 47.0
13 21 96 61.9 4.57 22 0 2 0 33.1

ALL LEINART STARTS. ALL BAD GAMES.

Kurt had way more horrible games than Matt ever had for the Cardinals.

Prove it. Of course you won't, because you can't, and you run around making ridiculous comments without any critical thinking or backing.

To compare what Leinart did here to Kurt is somewhere beyond hilarious. Kurt Warner should be a first ballot hall of famer for taking the most pathetic sports franchise in history to within minutes of a super bowl victory. His only mistake was leaving time on the clock for our pitiful defense to fold like origami, per usual.

Matt Leinart was the direct beneficiary of perhaps the best backfield in college history, and was surrounded by superior talent at every position. In the NFL, he hasn't done anything to show him being worthy of his draft position.

In a league so bereft of QB talent, a guy that you claim is a superior starter with hall of fame talent (pause, for laughter) don't you think it's a little bizarre that he couldn't even get a job as a backup? Seems like all the scouts in football know nothing, and you're the talent evaluation genius. (or perhaps the opposite is true?)

 

[red desert]

Mitch old friend-----one of the most disturbing patterns I have noticed about Whiz, is his propensity for calling his own plays. One would think that after this sad excuse for a football season, he would be questioning his own success, (or utter lack of it), at least where play-calling is concerned. Yet when asked about that in his interview on KTAR today, he said that he felt that he had been pretty successful in calling his own plays, and went on to say that he saw no real reason not to continue to do so.

I found that extremely bothersome. He had just made what I believe was a huge admission on his part that some of his trusted and most valued players did not perform as they should have, and that he needs to address that. He as much as admitted that he let friendship get into the mix of whether, and where a man played. In that sense, it really confirmed to me that he allowed his like or dislike of the person affect whether or not that person played, or where he played. Performance really had little to do with his decisions in some cases. I believe that this trait had a far greater effect on this team than he is even now willing to acknowlege. I have said all along that he did not put all his players into a position from which they could succeed. I believe that he even carried this farther than that, and that he placed some players in a position from which only failure could result. How else can one deduce that Derek Anderson out performed Matt Leinart, or that Hightower was a better choice than Beanie, or that Daryl Washington rode the bench for so long during the season.

If you limit the opportunities for a player to engage, then you task him to perform unrealistic things, how can you not view him as the failure that you perceived he was before you even gave him a chance to prove otherwise? And by doing this, what are you doing to a young player's confidence when he cannot possibly please his coach? That is precisely what he did with Leinart by having the ground rules be different for him than they were for Anderson. The same can be said for starting his trusted Bryan Robinson every game this year, after having made it clear to Dan Williams that every game that Robinson started was proof that Williams was not doing his job. One can also include Daryl Washington here, because he was played at the SILB spot instead of the WILB position where his talents were far better suited. Even so, when he was allowed onto the field, he made a difference, as did Dan Williams. But how much damage was done with each of these two rookies in the process? Who would blame them for choosing to leave such a situation when their contract expires, just as many other good players have opted to do.

As I said, it was a positive sign when Whiz acknowleged that he allowed his personal friendship to influence who played and who didn't, although it was a terrible thing for a coach to do. It is even worse that he stacked the so-called competition between other players who were led to believe that the playing field would be equal. To me, he has violated his right to expect loyalty and trust from not only the players which he forced this behavior upon, but to those who witnessed it happening. I don't know how he can ever expect his players to trust him in the future. That is a bad position from which to go forward in my opinion.

Agree with most if not all of your post.

 

[THESMEL]

worse

Yes Kurt had some of the most outstanding games ever played as an AZ Cardinal, My stupid point is Matt lost 3 fumbles as an AZ cardinal! Kurt had 128 Ints and 102 Fumbles in his career!

Matt has never came close to problems our 2010 QB's have. Check downs were appropriate! And most those games that you mentioned splitting snaps with Kurt, Hell Kurt had more attempts per game allmost than Matt had completions in 5 games, I wonder why.

Matt Leinart was screwed by Whisenhunt Outright and public in the worse possible way. heres the latest
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/415213/matt-leinart

QB Matt Leinart will be coveted by the Texans if coach Gary Kubiak keeps his job. Kubiak has been impressed with how hard Leinart has worked, not to mention his talent. Leinart wants to play, and he won't play in Houston as long as Matt Schaub is healthy. (Updated 12/27/10) TSX



Franchise QB's are hard to come by, watch what happens when Leinart hits the field again, for somebody else. I noticed on the Orange bowl "5-6 of the last heisman trophy winners never won the National Championship, theexception being MATT LEINART!" WE as fans got hosed!

Now Philly, Giants and Vikings were all world class embarresssments of coaching preparation by Ken Whisenhunt in our SB year. But Matt will never even come close to Kurts Downer games, EVER! And thats a good thing!

Kurts worse IMO was the Jets game in 08, 3 INT and lost 2 fumbles in the first half, Yea He mounted a spirited comeback, but the teams throat was cut by Kurts performance.


New York's defense rattled Kurt Warner and forced three fumbles and two interceptions in the first half, and the Jets set a franchise record by scoring 34 points in the second quarter.
"That's more like it," safety Kerry Rhodes said. "We came after them with some looks and wrinkles they hadn't seen."

Throwing six touchdown passes was awesome," Favre said. "That had nothing to do with how I felt I played. It was one of those games. More importantly, I felt the overall game itself, I managed it well."
Favre, showing no signs of a left ankle injury that hobbled him during the week, finished 24-for-34 for 289 yards and an interception for the Jets (2-2).
"I asked him if he had tied a career high and he said, 'I've never thrown six,'" said Jerricho Cotchery, who had two TD catches. "That was like the end of the conversation because I'm scratching my head, like, 'Really? He's never thrown six touchdown passes before?' He played great today.


OF COURSE SOME DON"T AGREE

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/recap/NFL_20081221_ARI@NE

But on Sunday, the Patriots showed total superiority to the struggling champions of the weak NFC West. They pressured Kurt Warner into one of his worst games in 11 pro seasons as he threw for just 30 yards.
The Cardinals' defense was more miserable than the weather, allowing the Patriots to score on nine of their 10 possessions before Matt Cassel got the rest of the game off.

New England held a huge margin of 514 to 186 yards over the NFL's second-highest scoring team.

Cassel completed 20 of 36 passes for 345 yards and three touchdowns a week after throwing for four touchdowns in a 49-26 win at Oakland as the Patriots seized control early for the second straight game.

"I've never played in the snow before," said Cassel, who barely played at all the past seven seasons at Southern California and New England. "It was a lot of fun."
Heisman Trophy winner Matt Leinart, who kept Cassel on the bench for his last two college seasons after Carson Palmer did it for his first two, replaced Warner with 3:27 left in the third quarter. He went 6-of-14 for 138 yards with an interception, a fumble and a 78-yard touchdown on which Larry Fitzgerald ran most of the way to cut the lead to 47-7 with 6:17 left.

Ha, clearly you don't know anything about me. Per Kurt, I was as big of a darksider as anyone on this board. (with good reason)



Mostly awful football, with the exception of two glorious seasons.



I don't know why I'm even going through the effort, because what you say is just patently stupid. Anyway, I'll indulge you:

CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT
6 9 54 66.7 6.00 16 0 1 1 43.1
13 32 203 40.6 6.34 58 0 2 3 36.3
14 35 157 40.0 4.49 22 1 1 4 51.7
20 38 216 52.6 5.68 43 0 2 1 47.7
20 35 214 57.1 6.11 24 0 2 3 51.4
14 28 102 50.0 3.64 15 1 2 1 41.1
9 20 53 45.0 2.65 10 0 0 1 52.1
7 13 100 53.8 7.69 27 0 1 1 47.0
13 21 96 61.9 4.57 22 0 2 0 33.1

ALL LEINART STARTS. ALL BAD GAMES.




Prove it. Of course you won't, because you can't, and you run around making ridiculous comments without any critical thinking or backing.

To compare what Leinart did here to Kurt is somewhere beyond hilarious. Kurt Warner should be a first ballot hall of famer for taking the most pathetic sports franchise in history to within minutes of a super bowl victory. His only mistake was leaving time on the clock for our pitiful defense to fold like origami, per usual.

Matt Leinart was the direct beneficiary of perhaps the best backfield in college history, and was surrounded by superior talent at every position. In the NFL, he hasn't done anything to show him being worthy of his draft position.

In a league so bereft of QB talent, a guy that you claim is a superior starter with hall of fame talent (pause, for laughter) don't you think it's a little bizarre that he couldn't even get a job as a backup? Seems like all the scouts in football know nothing, and you're the talent evaluation genius. (or perhaps the opposite is true?)

 

[nidan]

Folks keep it civil.

We just had a our first timeout out for a personal attack in some time.