The Official: Who Do You Want to Coach Next Year?

Griffin

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Posts
3,726
Reaction score
1
Location
EU
If D'Antoni is fired, it will be precisely for this reason (quoting Bordow):
But the Suns can’t fire the entire roster if they’re eliminated by the Spurs. And they’re so squeezed by the salary cap that it’s unlikely they can make any major off season moves to improve the team.
If the Suns lose this series and they want to keep selling tickets and merchandise next season, they have to do something. Unfortunately, about the only thing they can do is to make changes in the coaching staff and philosophy. This may give enough (false?) hope to the fans that they will continue to sell out games. But, ultimately, it will be the players who decide how far this team goes.
 

Cheesewater

(ex-Uriah Heep)
Joined
May 27, 2007
Posts
2,094
Reaction score
509
Location
Granite Creek
If D'Antoni is fired, it will be precisely for this reason (quoting Bordow):

If the Suns lose this series and they want to keep selling tickets and merchandise next season, they have to do something. Unfortunately, about the only thing they can do is to make changes in the coaching staff and philosophy. This may give enough (false?) hope to the fans that they will continue to sell out games. But, ultimately, it will be the players who decide how far this team goes.

It would be interesting to see what the relationship is between dollars spent by a fan to how much they demand a severe change in the system after another year with no championship.
 

nowagimp

Registered User
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Posts
3,912
Reaction score
0
Location
Gilbert, AZ
If D'Antoni is fired, it will be precisely for this reason (quoting Bordow):

If the Suns lose this series and they want to keep selling tickets and merchandise next season, they have to do something. Unfortunately, about the only thing they can do is to make changes in the coaching staff and philosophy. This may give enough (false?) hope to the fans that they will continue to sell out games. But, ultimately, it will be the players who decide how far this team goes.

Well you can be sure that ownership wont own up to cheaping up and dumping KT and JR plus 3 1st round picks for chump change, so they have the goat. And most of the fan base will agree to blame it on the coach. In the future, perhaps it will be realized that its sarver and that Kerr wa san enabler of the cheapskate owner. Certainly Kerrs gets the credit for the shaq trade and ditching of KT and JR plus picks.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,609
Reaction score
61,353
Well you can be sure that ownership wont own up to cheaping up and dumping KT and JR plus 3 1st round picks for chump change, so they have the goat. And most of the fan base will agree to blame it on the coach. In the future, perhaps it will be realized that its sarver and that Kerr wa san enabler of the cheapskate owner. Certainly Kerrs gets the credit for the shaq trade and ditching of KT and JR plus picks.

while I agree that Sarver and Kerr are idiots of the highest order (basketball intelligence/forethought), no one forced DA to keep KT on the bench for most of Game 1 last year, when once again, the Spurs came in and stole home-court, making an entire team that was already tight, even tighter and which remained as tightly wound up as possible, following their leader who couldn't control himself on the sidelines until they all literally blew off the bench in Game 4, including every single coach. all 3 guys are the problem and since Sarver ain't gonna fire himself and Kerr just got here to be his hatchetman, DA will be the first to go. Once the crowds go, hopefully Sarver sells the team and goes with him.
 
OP
OP
H

hsandhu

Hall of Famer
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Posts
2,485
Reaction score
197
According to 7 seconds or less, he apparently does. He preaches defense and rebounding to his team. Rather than guess, which is what most do on here, I am going to go with what was written by someone who spent a season with the coaches.

He doesn't preach defense. He preaches chaos on the defensive side. Getting in the passing lane, deflections, creating turnorvers, scrambling all over in order to fuel the fast break. That's not defense, that's a gimmick. Defense is stepping up and stopping a team time after time. Not relying on forcing turnovers but saying to another team "you may get a shot off, but our defense is so strong it's gonna be a bad shot, if you even get one off"


There is no "holding players accountable" in the NBA. This isn't the NFL where you can just cut someone for underperforming. The NBA is about managing the psychology of these players as much as it is anything else. There is definitely teaching that happens with younger teams, but that isn't us. Amare is in his 6th season. He isn't going to suddenly become a great defender and rebounder until he really wants to be.

No question a lot of it is on amare. But coaches can alter mindsets of teams. Two years ago avery took the allas mavericks and had them playing pretty solid defense. They didn't change the players, they still had horrid defenders like dirk and terry. But avery stressed a new defensive approach and they got better, not great, but better during their finals run. Was it just coincidence this happened after the switch from nellie to avery?

Hmm, I believe Amare made All NBA Second team playing the 5. This "D'Antoni doesn't adjust" is one of the dumbest statements on the board right now. He has adjusted this team repeatedly this season due to extreme player turnover. He tossed his entire system out the door after the trade. He tried tinkering with a zone defense because there are so many bad defenders on this team now. Of course when he tried the zone people bitched about that.

Hmm, I also believe amare gave up career highs to centers NIGHT AFTER NIGHT! Bynum, jefferson, etc.... But yes the argument above is the argument mike would make, offensively he's great at the 5 (but better at the 4 as we see now, and don't think the mental strain of not playing the 5 doesn't have everything to do with it) so who cares if he gives almost all of it back on d!



Would you like him to say "Diaw has sucked a lot for us this year"? How would that work for you if your boss said that at your work? How would that work out for you if you were already a passive kind of guy. Likely you would lose more confidence or simply care less. He is trying to build the guy up and hope he performs again at that level. Again go read 7 seconds or less and get some insight into what coaching in the NBA really is. Or go read any of Phil Jackson's books and he tells you the same thing.

Yeah I know phil jackson has been referring to Sasha as the 11:00 am superstar in public for the past few years. Because he was great in practice. That hasn't hurt his growth. And don't compare phil to d'antoni, look at the young player jackson has aided in developing in just the past couple years, turiaf, farmar, sasha, bynum. Only bynum was a high pick. And yes I'm completely on board with you here that sarver's cheapness didn't give us enough chances at draft picks.

But back to diaw, he doesn't even have to call him out in public. Just let him know that a 4ft hook shot is better than a wide open three. But it is clear from mike's philosophy that is not the case so he doesn't see a problem with diaw's play. Also, how about playing him at the natural spot of 3, worked out pretty well yesterday...


DJ Strawberry doesn't belong on a NBA roster. His defense is grossly overrated on this board and doesn't account for his inability to run an offense or hit a 10 foot jump shot. As I have said, someday he might be as good as Jacque Vaughn, maybe. Right now he sucks. Everyone is yelling for Jeff Van Gundy and he just was laughing about playing this guy "Who is he going to play off that bench"

Clearly D'Antoni would love to have real bench players. Giricek has had no problem getting minutes from the moment he walked on the court.

At the beginning of the year would you have said leon freakin' powe deserved to be on nba roster? He's getting minutes on the best team in the league. I can go down the roster of every top team and give you a leon powe.


You are grossly overstating the impact a coach has on a NBA team. Hold your players accountable for their mistakes and quit blaming the coach.

Just a baffling comment. Coaching doesn't have a huge impact in the nba? Let me just give you the examples that come to the top of my head:

1) Spurs win a title in 99, their last two titles are '05 and '07, only one player from the 99 team remains. Duncan is the greatest pf ever, but to rebuild an entire team in a 6 year span and win another title doesn't have anything to do with coaching, emphasis of a system and way to play and developing of talent?

Let me ask you this, if pop took over in minny in '03. And molded his philosophy around garnett, would they have missed the playoffs the last 3 years? That seems to emphasise the importance of coaching and philosophy, dont you think?

2) Look at the lakers during the rudy t run. They had kobe, odom, and butler but were horrid. You're telling me phil jackson hasn't had a huge impact on changing things. I'm talking even before the gasol trade.

People forget, last year before all the injuries in jan the lakers were a top 5 team. And that was replacing buter with kwame, but he made that team much better than rudy t.

How can you say coaching is overrated? Is it just a coincidence that those known as good coaches usually produce good teams?
 
Last edited:

Chris_Sanders

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
37,967
Reaction score
27,099
Location
Scottsdale, Az
1) Spurs win a title in 99, their last two titles are '05 and '07, only one player from the 99 team remains. Duncan is the greatest pf ever, but to rebuild an entire team in a 6 year span and win another title doesn't have anything to do with coaching, emphasis of a system and way to play and developing of talent?

They win because they have great players who have bought into a team concept instead of being concerned with individual accolades.

Let me ask you this, if pop took over in minny in '03. And molded his philosophy around garnett, would they have missed the playoffs the last 3 years? That seems to emphasise the importance of coaching and philosophy, dont you think?/

Yes. Minnesota didn't have the players to make the playoffs regardless of who the coach was.

2) Look at the lakers during the rudy t run. They had kobe, odom, and butler but were horrid. You're telling me phil jackson hasn't had a huge impact on changing things. I'm talking even before the gasol trade.

Jackson's impact has been managing Kobe's ego and that's about it. They had no big men during Rudy's days. Now they have a plethora and they are winning. Winning comes with great players not great coaches.

People forget, last year before all the injuries in jan the lakers were a top 5 team. And that was replacing buter with kwame, but he made that team much better than rudy t.

And they Lakers have lost to the Suns two years in a row despite that "impact coach" who has never won anything without having the most dominant players of that time.

How can you say coaching is overrated? Is it just a coincidence that those known as good coaches usually produce good teams?

Good teams have good players. That is it. The coach matters little compared to that. You will see next year when we aren't any better and are another 1 and done (if we are lucky).
 

Chris_Sanders

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
37,967
Reaction score
27,099
Location
Scottsdale, Az
At some point Suns fans need to wake up and just realize San Antonio is a better team than us. Coaching won't change that.
 

82CardsGrad

7 x 70
Joined
Dec 31, 2004
Posts
35,480
Reaction score
6,924
Location
Scottsdale
At some point Suns fans need to wake up and just realize San Antonio is a better team than us. Coaching won't change that.

Agree that the Spurs are a better team. But I also believe Pop is a better coach...

That said, why does this have to be a zero-sum game? A coach is not more important that quality players, and quality players are not more important that a quality coach... To win championships, you need both, along with great ownership and management, and a great culture...

The Suns are lacking with regard to players and coaching... Ownership is also questionable. And until the Suns win a championship, I'll continue to feel this way...
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,445
Reaction score
4,751
Location
Harrisburg, PA
I can't even get the keyboard coaches on this board to understand why Micheal Finley being open in game 1 was Amare's fault. If you can't understand basketball 101, please stop pretending like you know more than a coach.

I am sorry Chris, but most of us understand the concept of defensive switching after a screen. Just because a couple of people don't understand that big man has to rotate in that situation doesn't mean we are all imbeciles and that you are oh so much smarter than everyone else.

I fully understand defensive switch after a screen, and I think D'Antoni flat out sucks. A real coach would make a difference.
 

nowagimp

Registered User
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Posts
3,912
Reaction score
0
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I am sorry Chris, but most of us understand the concept of defensive switching after a screen. Just because a couple of people don't understand that big man has to rotate in that situation doesn't mean we are all imbeciles and that you are oh so much smarter than everyone else.

I fully understand defensive switch after a screen, and I think D'Antoni flat out sucks. A real coach would make a difference.

So, you understand about switching on screens and you are not a basketball professional. Imagine that, a professional who thinks basketball 24/7 and has 5 years experience as a pro with a dedicated big man coach(ivaroni) doesnt switch on screens. Hmmm doesnt sound like nuclear physics to me, pretty simple, just switch on screens. What exactly do you think a coach can do about it. Is the guy such a moron that he needs special ed classes in basketball 101? What exactly do you think an all-NBA player that has a guaranteed max contract will do, suddenly get religion when the new coach leads him to the defensive cult of stopshoot? I suppose reality is difficult for suns fans, they think good coaches are magic, they get terrible defensive players to change their ways, like a drunk drying out. What poor defensive player with a big secure contract has POPs or larry Brown or Sloan, or PJ ever changed? I dont expect you will answer that one, good luck. Hey I hear PJ is working on Radman, he's gonna be a real stopper next year.
 
Last edited:

SunsTzu

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Posts
4,787
Reaction score
1,484
It has been a while since I checked. The Suns are 9th in salaries, but are all but certain to go higher next year

I haven't bothered to look at other teams cap situation so I don't know where the Suns will rank, but the Suns will have a lower payroll next season with Shaq(who keeps the same salary) than they would if they had kept Marion and Banks(both of whom have salaries that go up).
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,445
Reaction score
4,751
Location
Harrisburg, PA
I'll tell you one thing though- Larry brown's Philli team played defense. Every Phil Jackson team played defense. Jerry Sloan's Utah always played defense. Pop's Spurs always played defense. JVG's Knicks played defense.

You are talking individual plays and individual players, I am talking general mindset. Coach couldn't do anything about Amare not switching on that one play because defensive mindset isn't there.
Don't even give me that garbage that "D'Antoni preaches defense". He doesn't. Going for steals and going for blocked shots isn't defense.

Amare Stoudemire is never going to be Tim Duncan or Ben Wallace on defense. Steve Nash will never be Jason Kidd on defense- that's fine, we all understand that. You can have good team defense without a single defensive superstar.
 

mojorizen7

ASFN Addict
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Posts
9,159
Reaction score
431
Location
In a van...down by the river.
Wow. Again...the D'Antoni apologist's defend this teams poor basketball IQ,inconsistent effort from one night to the next,lack of usable players beyond the 8th man and their universally recognized piss poor defense by blaming the players and not the man who's been responsible for bringing in many of these players.....not to mention "coaching" them for years. If D'Antoni and coaching isn't to blame here let's just bring in Joe Blo from Texas Christian Community College who'll coach for the NBA minimum.
Sarvers meddling has been a factor no doubt but does anybody here really believe that a team doesn't take on the "personality" and "mentality" of their coaching staff? Of course they do.
 

cly2tw

Registered User
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Posts
5,832
Reaction score
0
At some point Suns fans need to wake up and just realize San Antonio is a better team than us. Coaching won't change that.

DA himself said last year that the Suns were more talented than the Spurs. And I agree with him. Why can't we win with better talent?

When they let a simple PNR play destroy the Suns in game 3, is that really the players fault to not bring the energy or not execute the perfect game plans by the coach?

Coaching changes all this. DA himself did it with game 4. Recall he refused to play KT for game 1 last year, and that a hurting Hill hurt us in the first 3 games, it's safe to say that DA is simply too stubborn, thus always reacting/adjusting too late.

Within games and series, it reduces our winning chance to below our relative talent level is capable of. Over a season and seasons, it has consequences on how he wants the roster built and how he rotates among players, which also affects how free agents decide whether to sign with Suns.

Coaching matters. Big time.
 

nowagimp

Registered User
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Posts
3,912
Reaction score
0
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I'll tell you one thing though- Larry brown's Philli team played defense. Every Phil Jackson team played defense. Jerry Sloan's Utah always played defense. Pop's Spurs always played defense. JVG's Knicks played defense.

1) larry browns philli team had some nice defenders, brought in specifically for their defense including mutombo, eric snow, george lynch, aaron McKie, theo ratliff, tyrone hill. there were no nashs and no amares to hide in the defense. Larry Brown was driven crazy by AI, perhaps his only poor defender, he would never want to coach Nash, amare, and LB.

2) PJ, you didnt see the game last night did you, terrible transition defense by the lakers, and JR smith made it all the way to the rim in the halfcourt several times. The lakers are not a good defensive team with guys like radman, vujacic, gasol playing major minutes. However they can win it all anyway, they dont need to be that good defensively because they are very good on offense. PJ's bulls were not a special NBA defense, the 1993 team allowing 106ppg and 47% opponents FG%. THey did defend the perimeter well, but their low post D was mediocre. Defensive stiffs like luke longeley, bill wennington, Will perdue, and bill cartwright roamed the lane for years on those bulls. tony kukoc was also another poor defender on those bulls. PJ found a way to win with those teams without great defense, or just great defense in short spurts.

3) Jerry sloans Jazz are worse than the suns this year in opponents FG%, with several 2 guards recording season highs including manu(47) and josh howard(47). I dont think anyone believes that the jazz are a good defensive team with Memhet okur patrolling the lane intimidating everyone.

Objectivity is apparently not a strong suit of many of the arguements stated here. The best defensive team in the west by all measures is coached by Addelmann(the rockets), he of kings "no defense" fame. The best defensive teams in the NBA, the pistons and celtics are struggling with the 76ers and hawks right now.
 
Last edited:

nowagimp

Registered User
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Posts
3,912
Reaction score
0
Location
Gilbert, AZ

nashman

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 3, 2007
Posts
10,497
Reaction score
7,197
Location
Queen Creek, AZ
You guys are seriously delusional if you think we can get a better coach than Dantoni right now. While you may not like him, NO ONE wants the Suns job, Dantoni isn't going anywhere.
 

jagu

#13 - Legendary
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Posts
4,772
Reaction score
207
Jeff Van Gundy if he wants to coach again :)
 

Chris_Sanders

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
37,967
Reaction score
27,099
Location
Scottsdale, Az
And your new coach of the Tucson Suns...Lute Olson! :D


Seriously though my guess would be Avery Johnson. It will likely be someone with Tucson/Spurs ties.
 

nowagimp

Registered User
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Posts
3,912
Reaction score
0
Location
Gilbert, AZ
And your new coach of the Tucson Suns...Lute Olson! :D


Seriously though my guess would be Avery Johnson. It will likely be someone with Tucson/Spurs ties.


With avery Im sure the suns will just "need to concentrate a little more", and Nellie and the warriors will own them. But avery is one of kerrs boys, so they will go down together in flames.
 

DeAnna

Just A Face in The Crowd
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Posts
7,279
Reaction score
750
Location
Goodyear, AZ
Jeff Van Gundy if he wants to coach again :)

I would hate to see D'Antoni get fired, but Van Gundy is starting to grow on me. I had no idea he had such a good sense of humor and likes to read People Magazine. :)
 

Cheesewater

(ex-Uriah Heep)
Joined
May 27, 2007
Posts
2,094
Reaction score
509
Location
Granite Creek
From ESPN.com: ( http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/news/story?page=Roundtable-Suns-080429 )

2. Will Steve Kerr fire Mike D'Antoni? Should he?

Abbott: Their primary asset is the remaining years of Steve Nash's peak. What are we talking about, two years? As much as the current model may be broken, is there really time to build something different? If Phil Jackson or Gregg Popovich is available, that's one thing. But it could be that, despite everything -- and I think D'Antoni has made mistakes -- the smartest thing might be to just double down one last time.

Adande: It's never good for a coach's long-term security when the GM didn't hire him. Steve Kerr has no vested interest in Mike D'Antoni. Owner Robert Sarver has no compelling reason to keep D'Antoni. It's not fair to judge a coach for a team that wasn't built for his style. But someone will have to take the blame for the Suns' regression.

Broussard: The million-dollar question. Some sources close to the situation will tell you that D'Antoni wanted to trade for Shaq, while Kerr did not. Others will dispute that. Whatever the case, even before the trade, Kerr definitely wanted D'Antoni to focus a little more on defense and post play for Amare, so there have been philosophical differences. But this group of players is built to play D'Antoni's style, so bringing in a defensive head coach probably won't work because Nash and Shaq can't defend, and right now, Amare won't defend. Getting a defensive assistant and going with a mix of the old and the new might be the best option.

Bucher: Some in D'Antoni's camp believe Kerr could. Should he? Only if he (Kerr) plans to take over. D'Antoni has done too much to restore the Suns to prominence to be shunted aside for one disappointing season. Give him at least a full training camp to incorporate Shaq and show he can coach a slow-tempo team as well as he does a fast one.

Ford: He might, but he shouldn't. Look around the league. Look at the coaches who are out there. And then ask how many GMs would love to replace their coach to have D'Antoni running their team. I think Kerr has to swallow his pride, take a step back and let D'Antoni do it his way.

Hollinger: I can't get into his head, but obviously there are rumors of discord. I can't imagine a coach as successful as D'Antoni getting the ax, but the history books tell us a coach rarely survives a change of general managers for long.

Legler: Mike D'Antoni's job should be safe for a couple of reasons. First, the personnel on the Suns' roster make it imperative that this team plays the style that D'Antoni excels in teaching. They have skill players, not defensive players. Second, D'Antoni has been incredibly successful in the regular season, yet has dealt with significant issues each postseason. Because of injuries, suspensions and trades, he has never coached the same group in the playoffs that he worked with all season.

Sheridan: Don't think he will, and don't think he should. D'Antoni deserves at least a full season to try to make the Nash-Amare-Shaq trio functional.

Stein: There wouldn't be so much smoke emanating from the desert if the Suns weren't considering it. But D'Antoni definitely shouldn't go … no matter how much some segments of the Suns' fan base want to portray their most successful coach ever as the scapegoat. D'Antoni is the best coach for Nash (who isn't going anywhere, last I checked) and adapted to the most challenging midseason modification possible (integrating Shaq) better than anyone could have expected.
 

TucsonDevil

Good to be back!
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Posts
2,575
Reaction score
19
Location
SLC, UT
Avery Johnson? That would be interesting. I have always liked him, but don't think he is the type of guy the Suns need right now.

Suns need the following characteristics in a new head coach:

Commands the respect of Nash and Shaq
Has a track record of getting the most out of journey men
Teaches defense and the philosophy of "the more the stop the opponent, the less you have to score"
Offense works best from the inside-out... not the outside-in.

I don't think the new head coach needs to have championship rings. I don't think the new head coach needs to be someone coaching right now in the league. I can't give examples, but I would like the search to be done, looking for the above. What was Phil Jackson before the Bulls? What was Popp before the Spurs?
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
537,390
Posts
5,269,734
Members
6,276
Latest member
ConpiracyCard
Top