The NBA is rigged

[Larry Schweikart]

Suns beat the Clippers and the refs tonight

Most of you guys are too young to remember that Ritchie Powers likely stole the 1976 series from us. End of game, score was tied, Celtics grabbed a rebound, and
Havlicek (as I recall) called timeout. But they didn't have any left. It should have been a technical foul sending the Suns to the line for the win. Powers was looking right at Havlicek.
He ignored him. I'm sure there was a memo that was burned after the fact that said "We don't want this little market team winning the championship, do we?"

Still would have been one more game in PHX, but I think the momentum was such the Suns would have won, and did so without Keith Erickson (ankle sprain) who had just destroyed Golden State in the last two games.

 

[Russ Smith]

Most of you guys are too young to remember that Ritchie Powers likely stole the 1976 series from us. End of game, score was tied, Celtics grabbed a rebound, and
Havlicek (as I recall) called timeout. But they didn't have any left. It should have been a technical foul sending the Suns to the line for the win. Powers was looking right at Havlicek.
He ignored him. I'm sure there was a memo that was burned after the fact that said "We don't want this little market team winning the championship, do we?"

Still would have been one more game in PHX, but I think the momentum was such the Suns would have won, and did so without Keith Erickson (ankle sprain) who had just destroyed Golden State in the last two games.

That's the infamous Ricky Sobers starts a fight with Barry on purpose series

 

[AzStevenCal]

Getting 20k fans into Maddison Square Garden....in a city of 9 million people isn't that impressive. Plus, its a tourist destination.

We were talking TV ratings. Who has more "fans" that wear the gear and jump on the hype train when convenient than the LA Lakers? I would bet over 1/2 of the people following the Lakers or their players on social media dont even know they are out of the playoffs....or where ever in them....or what the playoffs are!

You brought up a point about age so I thought you were trying to make the point that the loss of big market fans was due to the younger fans disinterest. And you're really reaching with your argument on the Lakers there. How likely is it that one franchise would have all the stupid fans in the world?

As for TV ratings, I haven't seen this year's but the Lakers were number 1 coming into the season. The Knicks were still packing the arena but yes, their TV numbers were way down (below ours even). I'm sure they took a big jump this season as they were finally a watchable team again but that's the way it goes with TV ratings - if your team sucks, your viewing numbers shrink. But the larger populations rebound quickly when the team starts to win.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's the infamous Ricky Sobers starts a fight with Barry on purpose series

We tell it differently in Phoenix. That Richie Powers BS came after the series where the heroic Ricky Sobers retaliated against the infamous Rick Barry on purpose.

 

[AZman5103]

Take a look at the Knicks TV ratings for nationally televised games, courtesy of ShowBuzz Daily.

REGULAR SEASON
Average audience: 0.33 million (67.02 percent less than in 2018-19)
Average rating: 0.20 (69.47 percent less than in 2018-19)

 

[AZman5103]

You brought up a point about age so I thought you were trying to make the point that the loss of big market fans was due to the younger fans disinterest. And you're really reaching with your argument on the Lakers there. How likely is it that one franchise would have all the stupid fans in the world?

As for TV ratings, I haven't seen this year's but the Lakers were number 1 coming into the season. The Knicks were still packing the arena but yes, their TV numbers were way down (below ours even). I'm sure they took a big jump this season as they were finally a watchable team again but that's the way it goes with TV ratings - if your team sucks, your viewing numbers shrink. But the larger populations rebound quickly when the team starts to win.

I get it...and I know I am exaggerating to a large extent....but honestly...I'm gonna stay with my point. What are the chances the Lakers have all the stupid fans....pretty high I think! The dodgers have the stupidest fans. The Rams have the stupidest fans. The Raiders had stupid fans when they were in LA.

It's pretty easy to have a large population of fake or disengaged "fans" when you are also the Hollywood, Movie Star team, in the land of perfect weather and beautiful people. There are still a lot of people that romanticize southern California....but haven't been there in a while. Reality is that LA is basically the countries most expensive, dirtiest homeless encampment....with the highest taxes and barbed wire around the freeway signs. If your a millionaire Im sure its great...otherwise its a dump.

 

[Russ Smith]

We tell it differently in Phoenix. That Richie Powers BS came after the series where the heroic Ricky Sobers retaliated against the infamous Rick Barry on purpose.

I've never seen it but for years the story in the Bay Area has been that Sobers admitted he did it on purpose and even suggested he was told to do it. Worked, Barry was a hothead he fell for it and honestly I guess I remember it wrong because googling it says Rick was NOT ejected but he was so mad at teammates not jumping in to help him after Sobers punched him that he "tanked" the 2nd half by not shooting very much. Barry denies it but Bill Simmons apparently wrote it in a book.

Weird for all this time I remembered Rick got ejected but per google he didn't.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I get it...and I know I am exaggerating to a large extent....but honestly...I'm gonna stay with my point. What are the chances the Lakers have all the stupid fans....pretty high I think! The dodgers have the stupidest fans. The Rams have the stupidest fans. The Raiders had stupid fans when they were in LA.

It's pretty easy to have a large population of fake or disengaged "fans" when you are also the Hollywood, Movie Star team, in the land of perfect weather and beautiful people. There are still a lot of people that romanticize southern California....but haven't been there in a while. Reality is that LA is basically the countries most expensive, dirtiest homeless encampment....with the highest taxes and barbed wire around the freeway signs. If your a millionaire Im sure its great...otherwise its a dump.

The homeless problem is world-wide, it's not just LA. I live in a city with roughly 200,000 people (an hour away from Los Angeles) and if I never left this area I'd think I lived amongst the largest homeless population in the world. Homeless camps seem to be everywhere in this city. But as you visit larger and larger cities you'll see greater and greater numbers of homeless.

Every non-Eastern franchise has to deal with fair weather fans because the weather and geography provide so many distractions for fans when their team isn't doing well. But both the Lakers and the Knicks still tend to sell out even when they are down.

 

[Western Font]

I lived in NYC for a long time and my experience was that the Knicks, Rangers, Giants, Jets, and Yankees all had pretty unimpeachable fan bases. The population makes it easy for them to sell out and they have bandwagon fans like anyone else, but none of the fans I knew ever really disengaged. The Yankee fans were spoiled but still took mid-season losses hard. Mets fans got a little demoralized but there were still lots of die-hards. Isles were the team that didn’t seem to have much support, but they weren’t as much a city team. Same for the Devils and Nets when they were still in NJ. I didn’t overlap with the Nets in Brooklyn but didn’t know anyone who planned to switch allegiances.

But the good fans there weren’t any better than the good fans anywhere else, contrary to what they would have you believe

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Im gonna disagree with NY. They have the Knicks and the Nets....and people still don't care.

I would argue the best fan base in NY is the Buffalo Bills....by a massive amount.

Boston and Philly you are right. But you also have far more "born and raised" in Philly and Boston...people are lifelong fans.

I know this is a stupid point...but honestly I know a lot of people from New York...and none of them have every cared about the Knicks. These guys are in their 30's....but unless you want to hang your hat on "almost beating the Bulls a couple of times 25 years ago"....why on earth would people waste their time with that team? The owner is a nutjob and hates the fans.

Really none of this is true in my experience.

I despise the Knicks, but they have a much stronger, although obnoxious, fan base than you give them credit for - it's very much a basketball culture and it's complicated, but it's there

The bills have a solid, but probably even more obnoxious fan base - like most they'll crawl out of the woodwork with success

Speaking of success, I would say the team that has the most support and interest across the state is Syracuse basketball

Also, dont sleep on the rangers or either baseball team - the Yankees have huge support across the entire state

 

[AzStevenCal]

I've never seen it but for years the story in the Bay Area has been that Sobers admitted he did it on purpose and even suggested he was told to do it. Worked, Barry was a hothead he fell for it and honestly I guess I remember it wrong because googling it says Rick was NOT ejected but he was so mad at teammates not jumping in to help him after Sobers punched him that he "tanked" the 2nd half by not shooting very much. Barry denies it but Bill Simmons apparently wrote it in a book.

Weird for all this time I remembered Rick got ejected but per google he didn't.

I don't doubt it, Rick Barry was often targeted by opposing teams. He was an incredible player but he was very thin-skinned with a short trigger. I never heard Sobers admit that he was told to do it but I had no doubt at the time that he was instructed to create tension with Barry, if not outright told to start a fight.

When I see Booker get upset with a play or a teammate or the refs I'm always reminded of Barry and how he drove the fans (and the league) away from him. He makes very similar faces as Rick and people just don't like to see that kind of behavior. I'd love to see him become as dominant as Barry is but I'd rather he mimicked someone else's countenance.

 

[AZman5103]

I feel like...no wait I know...that if we need to get scrappy...or maybe need a Raja Bell clothesline heat check...Jae Crowder is ready to step up to the plate!

I wouldn't mind giving Beverly and Marcus Morris a little something to think about over the off-season. Jae would salsa on their heads!

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't doubt it, Rick Barry was often targeted by opposing teams. He was an incredible player but he was very thin-skinned with a short trigger. I never heard Sobers admit that he was told to do it but I had no doubt at the time that he was instructed to create tension with Barry, if not outright told to start a fight.

When I see Booker get upset with a play or a teammate or the refs I'm always reminded of Barry and how he drove the fans (and the league) away from him. He makes very similar faces as Rick and people just don't like to see that kind of behavior. I'd love to see him become as dominant as Barry is but I'd rather he mimicked someone else's countenance.

I grew up watching Barry. My dad used to say as a player yes try and be like that, as a person no not a good role model. I probably posted this before I went to the Rick Barry camp as a kid. Think I was 9 or 10 not sure. Was so excited to meet the guy, figured he'd teach us to shoot FT's underhand. First day of camp he was there, shot a few underhanded, then was gone and we never saw him again. I think it was a Fri through Sun camp by the end I was so mad I remember telling my mom why have his name on the camp if he's not here.

Great player major jerk

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I wouldn't say they were trying to rig this game. They certainly made some bad calls and blocking fouls called with PG driving possibly being the worst, but most of the replay decisions I agree with.

The call overturned to being out on Booker is IMO the right call as Booker is in fact the last person to touch the ball. It's similar to when a player gets that ball slapped into their foot when driving. No way they would call that out on the defense and I don't see a big difference here.

The one where they stopped play to determine if Booker committed a flagrant was BS in the way they did it, but I do believe that to be an offensive foul on Booker.

Ultimately the way they were running the replays at the end actually helped us in the end because it essentially gave us an extended timeout to draw up that lob to Ayton.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Im gonna disagree with NY. They have the Knicks and the Nets....and people still don't care.

I would argue the best fan base in NY is the Buffalo Bills....by a massive amount.

Boston and Philly you are right. But you also have far more "born and raised" in Philly and Boston...people are lifelong fans.

I know this is a stupid point...but honestly I know a lot of people from New York...and none of them have every cared about the Knicks. These guys are in their 30's....but unless you want to hang your hat on "almost beating the Bulls a couple of times 25 years ago"....why on earth would people waste their time with that team? The owner is a nutjob and hates the fans.

Having lived back East for eight years and having a ton of buddies from NYC I can tell you the thoughts are much different for those in their 40s and 50s. They are diehard knicks fans. DIEHARD.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I literally felt like I was watching a robbery in progress. IDGACrap what anyone says......

Foster is clearly affected by the Suns and should never officiate our games again.

Beverly is a dirty player. Like....... Flying head butt to our best player dirty.
Morris has a vendetta against this team. We all know why.
The Clippers cant continue to be this dirty and get away with it
And Playoff P choked.

 

[AZman5103]

I wouldn't say they were trying to rig this game. They certainly made some bad calls and blocking fouls called with PG driving possibly being the worst, but most of the replay decisions I agree with.

The call overturned to being out on Booker is IMO the right call as Booker is in fact the last person to touch the ball. It's similar to when a player gets that ball slapped into their foot when driving. No way they would call that out on the defense and I don't see a big difference here.

The one where they stopped play to determine if Booker committed a flagrant was BS in the way they did it, but I do believe that to be an offensive foul on Booker.

Ultimately the way they were running the replays at the end actually helped is in the end because it essentially gave us an extended timeout to draw up that lob to Ayton.

Gotta disagree. Those comparisons are different...a ball getting dribbled off a players foot is cut and dry.

This call was so so strange...because Bev CAUSED the ball to go out of bounds. He put the force on the ball...and the momentum was such that it just rolled off Bookers fingers....as it always would in that situation. I would equate it more to when players used to try and rifle the ball at a guys legs while falling out of bounds...just to bounce it off them. The league decided that play was kind of a bush league move...went against the intent of the play or was a way players were taking advantage of a rule, etc...and it really tapered off. In fact I think there is a rule against it now.

The other thing that makes it rough is that I think the NBA even admitted already that if that didn't happen in the last 2 min...it would have been Suns ball 100% of the time. The call in the moment...for every ref...was Suns ball. Its hard to swallow that all of them were wrong due to a technicality. Thats a bad rule. In fact...if this rule stays in place, wouldn't it make more sense for players to take closed fist punches at the ball? Less of a chance of getting the last fingernail on the ball?

 

[AzStevenCal]

I literally felt like I was watching a robbery in progress. IDGACrap what anyone says......

Foster is clearly affected by the Suns and should never officiate our games again.

Beverly is a dirty player. Like....... Flying head butt to our best player dirty.
Morris has a vendetta against this team. We all know why.
The Clippers cant continue to be this dirty and get away with it
And Playoff P choked.

I have a real problem with Foster but I'm pretty sure that fans of just about every team would say he's biased against their team. He's a lousy referee but he seems to hate individual players more than teams. He doesn't like Paul, he doesn't like Booker, he doesn't like Harden - the list is long.

And I have no argument on Beverley. He's as dirty a player as we've ever seen. Marcus has extra motivation against Phoenix but I don't know if Morris has a particular problem with Booker and the other Suns he played with, I just think that's who Marcus is. He's not Beverley but he's not too much different from Crowder. Tough, hard-nosed player, sometimes crosses the dirty line.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Beverly plays reckless D which eventually injures people but looks like its accidental. He is a menace and the league needs to figure out how to deal with this.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I literally felt like I was watching a robbery in progress. IDGACrap what anyone says......

Foster is clearly affected by the Suns and should never officiate our games again.

Beverly is a dirty player. Like....... Flying head butt to our best player dirty.
Morris has a vendetta against this team. We all know why.
The Clippers cant continue to be this dirty and get away with it
And Playoff P choked.

I was just shocked to see the nba allow the clippers to get away with 80s-90s bad boys and knicks thug ball. The headbutt, morris’ push, beverleys tackle, cousins shove. I was sure the nba had gotten far away from that crap, but last night proved me wrong. Sad bc basketball had gotten more entertaining again. The clips are going to injure someone with their thuggery. I won’t be the least bit surprised if we see Beverley undercut Ayton or Bridges at some time in this series.

 

[AZman5103]

You must be registered for see images attach

Crowder's phone rings.....it's Raja Bell.

"Sweep the leg"

"But Sensai, I'll be disqualified"

"No Mercy"

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Gotta disagree. Those comparisons are different...a ball getting dribbled off a players foot is cut and dry.

This call was so so strange...because Bev CAUSED the ball to go out of bounds. He put the force on the ball...and the momentum was such that it just rolled off Bookers fingers....as it always would in that situation. I would equate it more to when players used to try and rifle the ball at a guys legs while falling out of bounds...just to bounce it off them. The league decided that play was kind of a bush league move...went against the intent of the play or was a way players were taking advantage of a rule, etc...and it really tapered off. In fact I think there is a rule against it now.

The other thing that makes it rough is that I think the NBA even admitted already that if that didn't happen in the last 2 min...it would have been Suns ball 100% of the time. The call in the moment...for every ref...was Suns ball. Its hard to swallow that all of them were wrong due to a technicality. Thats a bad rule. In fact...if this rule stays in place, wouldn't it make more sense for players to take closed fist punches at the ball? Less of a chance of getting the last fingernail on the ball?

The ball still hit his hand last. Beverly didn't hit the ball out of Booker's hand, but hit it into his hand and that cause Booker to dribble it out. All the refs can possible look at in that moment is who it touched last and they should without a doubt look at it in that juncture of the game.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The ball still hit his hand last. Beverly didn't hit the ball out of Booker's hand, but hit it into his hand and that cause Booker to dribble it out. All the refs can possible look at in that moment is who it touched last and they should without a doubt look at it in that juncture of the game.

I'm not sure why you're responding to me on this, I haven't said anything about that particular call. For the record, I agree the call was correct. But, I've seen that same thing happen many times and it's not usually called on the ball-handler unless it hits their body after it clearly leaves the hand.

Still, complaining about that decision is something like complaining about a foul because it was called late. If the call is correct, that's more important than the fact they called it late or the fact it isn't usually called that way.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I'm not sure why you're responding to me on this, I haven't said anything about that particular call. For the record, I agree the call was correct. But, I've seen that same thing happen many times and it's not usually called on the ball-handler unless it hits their body after it clearly leaves the hand.

Still, complaining about that decision is something like complaining about a foul because it was called late. If the call is correct, that's more important than the fact they called it late or the fact it isn't usually called that way.

Fixed

 

[AZman5103]

The ball still hit his hand last. Beverly didn't hit the ball out of Booker's hand, but hit it into his hand and that cause Booker to dribble it out. All the refs can possible look at in that moment is who it touched last and they should without a doubt look at it in that juncture of the game.

but the Refs know this rule...have seen how replay overturns the call on a technicality....and STILL said if that play had happened at any other point in the game it would have been Suns ball.

Its just a bad rule that they need to figure out. The intent...and letter of the law..makes sense in theory...but you watch it unfold in real-time and it was just a really bad look. All three announcers (Former Players and Coaches) said it was rediculous.The rule is either written poorly, understood poorly, or is just a bad rule that needlessly complicates the game.