"The Four Horsemen" WR stats and projections

Shane

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Lol so Kyler is keeping us from being a Super Bowl contender and not Kliff? You go off the rails with posts like this.

If anything ALL 3 are why will or wont be super bowl contenders.

Edit: I didnt read the rest, but I still kinda feel like I didnt have to. McVay got Goff to a Super Bowl.
Kliff is a given… Nothing he said about Kyler is really wrong. Do you know the only two QBs that have more ints then Kyler this year so far?? Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson… Thats some pretty bad company. Yes he’s a star and an incredible talent. But he needs to improve A LOT In overall decision making. No matter how much you guys try to excuse it. Every experts says the number one crippling thing for a team is TO‘s.
 
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ajcardfan

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Kyler is taking more shots downfield compared to his previous seasons. We all wanted that. INT numbers going up because of that was a given. It's risk, reward and, so far, the reward outweighs the risks. If we continue to put up 30+ points fairly consistently, and have a playoff season, then who cares about the ints other than football nerds?

That said, he is plenty aware that he needs to get even better. He has said it every week so far, for crissakes. If you look at completion % he has gotten a little better each game.
 
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SoonerLou

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Kliff is a given… Nothing he said about Kyler is really wrong. Do you know the only two QBs that have more ints then Kyler this year so far?? Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson… Thats some pretty bad company. Yes he’s a star and an incredible talent. But he needs to improve A LOT.
Do you know how many QBs have more TDs than Kyler Murray?

Tom Brady. Who also happens to have one less turnover than Kyler as well.

I'd argue the int against the Jags (which was terrible) was his only real bad decision on ints. I dont like the other ints either, but that was product of a great play by the defender, a poor throw and a facemask. If the ints continue to pile up then sure thats an issue. However, the Jags int is only one where he looked confused about something.

Sure I'd like him to be more calm in the pocket, but thats only because we face the Rams. I think we can beat the Packers and maybe even the Bucs with current Kyler. Heck he sliced that Bucs defense up (which features most of the same guys) in 2019.
 

Krangodnzr

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I feel like we are a playoff team in a really tough division which is about the best I expected before the season. Kyler and Vance are the two things keeping us from being a Super Bowl contender right now.

Before anyone jumps on this regarding Kyler, there is just no way he outduels Brady, Rodgers, or Stafford at this point. He 100% can get better over the course of the year and change this, but he is still too jittery in clean pockets and is way too impatient right now. Also, I feel like he still relies on Kliff's playcalls too much. Basically, there is a polish to QB play that you need to be a Super Bowl contender that Kyler doesn't have yet.

Vance is an issue because he can't scheme a blitz and our secondary while playing good is not talented enough to really lock teams down with their fundamentals. Everyone if too new playing with each other. Maybe that chemistry will develop but good schemes and QBs will pick us apart.
I agree, even as Captain of Team Murray.

Even on some of Murray's biggest highlight plays of the season where he leaves the pocket, most of the time the play would have been available from the pocket.

My issues with Kliff are almost 100% game management issue. He sucks at it, but he can design plays and call plays. Ideally he's really just a good offensive coordinator and not a head coach.

As you have stated over and over, we don't know what the play call was on any given play. Fans tend to blame every failure on Kliff and every success is attributed to Murray. What I have seen from Murray is a cavalier attitude towards throwing the ball downfield. Every interception he has thrown this season was 100% his fault, and on every interception, there was clearly an open receiver that would have moved the chains. That means the scheme is working.

I think Vance's defenses are solid for the most part schematically, but like you said, his blitzes rarely catch a team off guard. He also seems too late to adjust his defense to what the offense is doing. Todd Bowles was great at both of these things. He seemed to be able to adjust after a bad defensive series and get the team back on track.
 

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He 100% can outduel any QB any given game, the biggest issue we have by far is KK is a sorry coach.
This is Facts!!! 1000%. He can outduel and out play any QB in the league. Reading some of the posts here is insane really. We are complaining about KK and he has the Cardinals with the number rated offense and tied for most points scored in the NFL. And Minnesota whipped up on Seattle. Baltimore should have lost to Detroit. I mean you guys are complaining about KK and Kiem and we are winning games with talented players. We use!!! To be The Giants, the Jets, Detroit, Chicago, Atlanta, Washington, and now look at the Steelers. I mean we have a tough schedule but let’s see what we do the next 3 weeks before we call us pretenders. Kyler makes 1 or 2 bad plays. So does Lamar Jackson and now Mahomes too. Dude over threw a receiver on a pass he should have never attempted with under 2 minutes to go in a tie game. This board would have broken if Kyler made that throw. There was a caller on a XM radio station making fun of a Cardinals fan board saying that KK should have been fired at half time . The host called it idiotic. We avg almost 35 points a game and we have played 2 teams that are legit in the Titans and Vikings
 

Chopper0080

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Lol so Kyler is keeping us from being a Super Bowl contender and not Kliff? You go off the rails with posts like this.

If anything ALL 3 are why will or wont be super bowl contenders.

Edit: I didnt read the rest, but I still kinda feel like I didnt have to. McVay got Goff to a Super Bowl.
I should clarify a bit. I feel like Kliff has less impact on the offensive success of the team than Kyler which is why I left Kliff out. I feel the same way about most top level NFL QBs. Andy Reid is great, but Mahomes has more impact on their offensive success. Same with Bruce and Brady. Lafluer and Rodgers.

That said, Kliff will impact with situational coaching decisions and crap like the field goal would definitely sabotage our chances.
 

HammerCards

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This is Facts!!! 1000%. He can outduel and out play any QB in the league. Reading some of the posts here is insane really. We are complaining about KK and he has the Cardinals with the number rated offense and tied for most points scored in the NFL. And Minnesota whipped up on Seattle. Baltimore should have lost to Detroit. I mean you guys are complaining about KK and Kiem and we are winning games with talented players. We use!!! To be The Giants, the Jets, Detroit, Chicago, Atlanta, Washington, and now look at the Steelers. I mean we have a tough schedule but let’s see what we do the next 3 weeks before we call us pretenders. Kyler makes 1 or 2 bad plays. So does Lamar Jackson and now Mahomes too. Dude over threw a receiver on a pass he should have never attempted with under 2 minutes to go in a tie game. This board would have broken if Kyler made that throw. There was a caller on a XM radio station making fun of a Cardinals fan board saying that KK should have been fired at half time . The host called it idiotic. We avg almost 35 points a game and we have played 2 teams that are legit in the Titans and Vikings
Yep! well said.
 

Chopper0080

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And the Rams got rid of Goff because of this. A coach or scheme can only do so much. You need a top level QB who can get you into the right plays and out of the wrong plays to really compete. You need a QB who can execute when the defense knows you are passing because it is a defined passing situation. You need a QB who can throw teams out of their defensive scheme, vertical or underneath. Red zone, third down, four minute offense, and two minute offense all are more about your QB than the person calling the play.

Tom Brady's greatest ability as a QB is to know exactly what type of game he needs to play in order for his team to in. He knows when he needs to throw it 40 times being the hero and he knows when he needs to throw it 25 and play a part.
 

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To go even further on my post. We played awful. Gave up a miraculous play and trailed by 9. And never panicked. We use to lose these games. Not only did we win. We covered!!! We scored 24 points in the 2nd half and still had 430 yards. And we played conservative in the first half. We trailed against Minnesota and battled back when the Vikings were playing tough!! We adjusted. We changed it up and we won. FG miss or not. We usually lose those games. We don’t anymore. Will we beat the Rams ? I’m not sure. But I bet it’s a good game. I bet we make it a close competitive game. And if we do win. One can argue we will be the best team in the NFL except 90% of the fans on here. And I have been a fan since I was 7 and I’m 52. So I have seen the worse. We are a very good team. And KK scheme is impressive. How many of you have said why did Kyler make that throw he had 2 WRs wide open. We have WR wide open everywhere a lot. KK does make some bone headed choices but I’m all honesty I’m ok with that because that means his ceiling is even higher. And right now with bone headed decisions and not being at his best. We lead the league in offense and scoring which is what we brought him here to do. He actually deserves more credit. But you guys want him fired. Lol
 

Russ Smith

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And the Rams got rid of Goff because of this. A coach or scheme can only do so much. You need a top level QB who can get you into the right plays and out of the wrong plays to really compete. You need a QB who can execute when the defense knows you are passing because it is a defined passing situation. You need a QB who can throw teams out of their defensive scheme, vertical or underneath. Red zone, third down, four minute offense, and two minute offense all are more about your QB than the person calling the play.

Tom Brady's greatest ability as a QB is to know exactly what type of game he needs to play in order for his team to in. He knows when he needs to throw it 40 times being the hero and he knows when he needs to throw it 25 and play a part.


Agreed but I don't think they got rid of Goff because of getting into the right plays, Goff is smart, if he were a Patriot they'd call him "wicked Smaht", what he isn't is a guy who makes big plays. He's not weak armed but what Stafford does is go for the big play. he had 3 shots at Jackson yesterday the first 2 weren't there he missed short on one, but the 3rd one was perfect. I think Goff maybe takes 1 of those 3 shots he's just always been "afraid" to take those shots.

Stafford has a great arm always has but he also is willing to make tough throws and take the shots and that's what the Rams wanted and weren't getting from Goff.

With the Lions because they weren't good he had to take shots so you could get him in trouble and pick him. he got better he hasn't had more than 11 picks since 2016, but with the Rams the scheme is better and the overall talent is better(no Megatron but he's got talented Wr's) and suddenly he's sitting there with 9 TD's and 1 pick looking like an MVP.

I've always felt what Brady does best besides lead, is just get the ball to the open guy. he doesn't care who it is he won't play favorites he finds the mismatch and exploits it.
 

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And the Rams got rid of Goff because of this. A coach or scheme can only do so much. You need a top level QB who can get you into the right plays and out of the wrong plays to really compete. You need a QB who can execute when the defense knows you are passing because it is a defined passing situation. You need a QB who can throw teams out of their defensive scheme, vertical or underneath. Red zone, third down, four minute offense, and two minute offense all are more about your QB than the person calling the play.

Tom Brady's greatest ability as a QB is to know exactly what type of game he needs to play in order for his team to in. He knows when he needs to throw it 40 times being the hero and he knows when he needs to throw it 25 and play a part.
Lol. Yes let’s criticize Kyler by comparing him to the greatest QB of all time and a dude who has won 7 Super Bowls. That would be like your wife telling you. Hey you are not as successful as Elon Musk or not as attractive as The Rock. Lol
 

Chopper0080

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Lol. Yes let’s criticize Kyler by comparing him to the greatest QB of all time and a dude who has won 7 Super Bowls. That would be like your wife telling you. Hey you are not as successful as Elon Musk or not as attractive as The Rock. Lol
You can over-react to a comment regarding QB play in the NFL if you want I guess. Part of comparing Kyler to Brady is that they play in the same conference, Brady's team is the defending champs, and Kyler would need to beat Brady in order to get to the Super Bowl. Same with Rodgers. Same with Stafford. Russ is really good, but I don't believe the roster around him is so I don't believe Kyler would need to play perfect to beat Seattle.

So yeah...I tend to comment on the QBs Kyler would need to beat to get to a Super Bowl when having a convo about the Cardinals being a Super Bowl contender.
 

cheesebeef

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I should clarify a bit. I feel like Kliff has less impact on the offensive success of the team than Kyler which is why I left Kliff out. I feel the same way about most top level NFL QBs. Andy Reid is great, but Mahomes has more impact on their offensive success. Same with Bruce and Brady. Lafluer and Rodgers.

That said, Kliff will impact with situational coaching decisions and crap like the field goal would definitely sabotage our chances.

based on your history, I thought the above was pretty clear when you made your point. Kyler is special enough to will this team into the playoffs and even win a game or two on his own, but there's still one more level to go, to get to the HOF level consistently in the playoff, the perfect game in the biggest game of the year.

I don't think that's a knock. I think that's pretty high praise for a guy just starting his third season.
 

Krangodnzr

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Agreed but I don't think they got rid of Goff because of getting into the right plays, Goff is smart, if he were a Patriot they'd call him "wicked Smaht", what he isn't is a guy who makes big plays. He's not weak armed but what Stafford does is go for the big play. he had 3 shots at Jackson yesterday the first 2 weren't there he missed short on one, but the 3rd one was perfect. I think Goff maybe takes 1 of those 3 shots he's just always been "afraid" to take those shots.

Stafford has a great arm always has but he also is willing to make tough throws and take the shots and that's what the Rams wanted and weren't getting from Goff.

With the Lions because they weren't good he had to take shots so you could get him in trouble and pick him. he got better he hasn't had more than 11 picks since 2016, but with the Rams the scheme is better and the overall talent is better(no Megatron but he's got talented Wr's) and suddenly he's sitting there with 9 TD's and 1 pick looking like an MVP.

I've always felt what Brady does best besides lead, is just get the ball to the open guy. he doesn't care who it is he won't play favorites he finds the mismatch and exploits it.
I don't about this. One of the problems that McVay had with Goff is that he struggled to figure out defenses and where he needed to go with the ball on any given play. Apparently when McVay's QB goes to the sideline they go over what he saw and Goff couldn't figure out how to read defenses on the fly.

There is a reason that McVay was constantly talking to Goff via the headset up until when he couldn't.
 

Chopper0080

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based on your history, I thought the above was pretty clear when you made your point. Kyler is special enough to will this team into the playoffs and even win a game or two on his own, but there's still one more level to go, to get to the HOF level consistently in the playoff, the perfect game in the biggest game of the year.

I don't think that's a knock. I think that's pretty high praise for a guy just starting his third season.
High praise and exciting. I was probably one of the more vocal individuals when he was drafted mostly due to my feelings towards his inexperience in a number of areas and being a physical outlier. He has come a long way in a short time which is impressive. That said, it doesn't mean he is a finished product and there is another level for him to reach which I feel he has the physical skills to achieve but just don't know how quickly he will be able to get there.
 
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