The Batman (2022)

[cheesebeef]

Yeah, the Justice League doesn't seem like a priority any longer for the studio. I am a little confused by Batfleck because he said he was 100% done and now he isn't. He will also be in the Flash movie coming off the Justice League new scenes. So, it sounds like as long as it's not a solo film Batfleck is still in. The studio obviously wants more hence the new solo Batman films. They can still use the flimsy "hey it's an alternate universe" to explain away films like Joker and this version of Batman.

I think hopes of a cohesive DC universe are dead on the vine. As it stands today there are four different versions of Batman/Bruce in Titans, Batgirl, The Flash Movie and now this new Batman film running around in the DC verse. Count 5 if you also count Keaton's return in The Flash.

I think only the hardcore comic fans care about any of the above. And they’ve got the overwhelming majority of you guys in their pocket anyway. Regular moviegoers just probably see a new Batman trailer and either think it looks good or don’t and will go based on that. It’s pretty clear at this point the DC properties ain’t Marvel and general public isn’t expecting them to be.

 

[cheesebeef]

I think you're right that The Batman was mostly set in motion before Joker. Do you think they might have retooled the story or feel though after Joker's success? They did have to shutdown production a couple times last year due to the pandemic and when Pattinson got covid. So they could have used the down times to re-evaluate their plan.

Doubt it. Matt Reeves is a beast of a director. If anything they might have had a chance to look at what they were doing themselves and then course correct. Which I think Reeves has actually talked about happening during the pandemic break.

 

[Chaplin]

Affleck got out a week before production on Joker started.

The Joker’s real name confirmed, and Joaquin Phoenix meets a clown in first ‘Joker’ photos

As scheduled, Joker starring Joaquin Phoenix began shooting in New York City this week and today we have the first set photos! Just Jared has our first look at Joaquin Phoenix in the Harlem neighbo…

batman-news.com

Ben announcement came out like Sept. 12th. And most of the stuff that hits the trades is usually weeks or a month behind what happened behind the scenes.

I think Justice League created a free for all for all of DC. Remember, Affleck was originally supposed to not just star in The Batman, but write and direct too. After Justice league disaster he began creeping away from all responsibilities it seemed like and when they brought Reeves in, I think it was probably inevitable they were eventually going in a diffferent direction.

I think we agree they were going in a different direction -- I remember hearing stuff about possible Batman Beyond possibilities, but it would be surprising if what we will be getting with Pattinson was what was intended a week before production on Joker started.

I guess the question is, where in the process was The Batman after the first couple weeks of Joker's release? And did Joker's success force The Batman's hand to go in a different direction? Or were they going in this direction the whole time regardless of the Joker's success?

 

[cheesebeef]

I remember reading that Warner Bros is the reason that Affleck isn't going to be Batman anymore. There was going to be a Batman solo movie with Deathstroke as the villain. It's alluded to at the end of the Snyder cut. Joe Manganiello (sp?) said the script was awesome and that Deathstroke was going to kill most of Bruce Wayne's close associates and the movie was really dark.

I know quite a few people here were ambivalent about the Snyder cut, but I loved it.

Yeah, some version of the above happened.

And I was actually surprised that I really dug it too.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think only the hardcore comic fans care about any of the above. And they’ve got the overwhelming majority of you guys in their pocket anyway. Regular moviegoers just probably see a new Batman trailer and either think it looks good or don’t and will go based on that. It’s pretty clear at this point the DC properties ain’t Marvel and general public isn’t expecting them to be.

Actually I brought this up because I have heard from multiple casual fans how confused they are about how many Batmans there are. Hardcore fans get it. The casual fans that make these things megahits do not. Even for a hardcore like me I still see a vast difference between Marvel's approach and the rudderless mess that is DC.

 

[cheesebeef]

I think we agree they were going in a different direction -- I remember hearing stuff about possible Batman Beyond possibilities, but it would be surprising if what we will be getting with Pattinson was what was intended a week before production on Joker started.

I guess the question is, where in the process was The Batman after the first couple weeks of Joker's release?

I mean... the new Batman movie was only like two and half months of their production starting. Can’t imagine they made that many changes after likely months and months of prep leading up to that shoot. For it to have a real effect, we’re likely talking rewrites to a script and then getting those changes all processed by production within a month of shooting? Possible? Maybe but I highly highly doubt for a production with that kind of prep and money riding on it.

 

[cheesebeef]

Actually I brought this up because I have heard from multiple casual fans how confused they are about how many Batmans there are. Hardcore fans get it. The casual fans that make these things megahits do not. The DC verse is just a rudderless mess.

Proof will be in the pudding and so far, the box office disagrees with you as both Aquaman and Joker were both totally out of order from Justice League and each were DC’s highest grossers so far.

If The Batman is good, I expect that streak to continue.

 

[Chaplin]

I mean... the new Batman movie was only like two and half months of their production starting. Can’t imagine they made that many changes after likely months and months of prep leading up to that shoot. For it to have a real effect, we’re likely talking rewrites to a script and then getting those changes all processed by production within a month of shooting? Possible? Maybe but I highly highly doubt for a production with that kind of prep and money riding on it.

Joker was released 2 years ago now -- even with the pandemic break, we know they were still filming earlier this year. So I think in a normal production, you're right -- not much call to make changes 2 months into production, but the timing on this is pretty unique.

It doesn't make a difference either way, but it's interesting to speculate -- you have comic fans, you have non-comic "normal" people, and you have people like us who actually have some knowledge of how these type of productions get done. Plus it's nice to not have nasty arguments with people on ignore.

 

[Covert Rain]

Proof will be in the pudding and so far, the box office disagrees with you as both Aquaman and Joker were both totally out of order from Justice League and each were DC’s highest grossers so far.

If The Batman is good, I expect that streak to continue.

Casual fans didn't have to worry about multiple iterations of Aquaman or even follow any of the other properties for that matter. I think the standalones for DC is the best way to go because it is such a mess to follow. That ship has sailed. Batman is one of the most beloved characters in the entire universe so I expect those films to have some success with the casual crowd no matter what. My point wasn't that the mess would prevent people from going to see a popular character only that even casual fans can see what mess the verse is.

In terms of Justice League which version? The original lost the studio around 60 million (750 million break even, grossed only $657 million with foreign box office). The new version of Just League excited the fan boys but didn't turn into a massive number of permanent subscriptions that HBO thought it would.

 

[Covert Rain]

Joker was released 2 years ago now -- even with the pandemic break, we know they were still filming earlier this year. So I think in a normal production, you're right -- not much call to make changes 2 months into production, but the timing on this is pretty unique.

It doesn't make a difference either way, but it's interesting to speculate -- you have comic fans, you have non-comic "normal" people, and you have people like us who actually have some knowledge of how these type of productions get done. Plus it's nice to not have nasty arguments with people on ignore.

Speaking of knowledge (she is not there yet), my daughter is switching her major. She is going to study Digital Art/Film. She wants to be a storyboard artist. She is a brilliant artist already. She has had her worked looked at by DC Comics already and is really excited about the new facilities her school is about to open. I am excited for her.

 

[Chaplin]

Speaking of knowledge (she is not there yet), my daughter is switching her major. She is going to study Digital Art/Film. She wants to be a storyboard artist. She is a brilliant artist already. She has had her worked looked at by DC Comics already and is really excited about the new facilities her school just opened. I am excited for her.

That's fantastic! What school is she going to?

 

[Covert Rain]

That's fantastic! What school is she going to?

She is currently at ASU but we are considering options. ASU is opening their Creative Futures Laboratory which is supposed to be one of the best in the world. Evidently, they worked with the film production, gaming media arts industry to develop the curriculum and the facilities. They have all the latest and greatest technology. It's brand new and they are moving those colleges to that location. I guess next semester or the following. This all just happened recently so we are talking to her academic advisers now. They are saying her initial classes will be the same so where she is now won't impact much but should consider moving her there when the facility opens.

Updated: I misunderstood her. She said will be opening soon. I am getting this information literally day by day. Updated my post.

 

[Chaplin]

She is currently at ASU but we are considering options. ASU is opening their Creative Futures Laboratory which is supposed to be one of the best in the world. Evidently, they worked with the film production, gaming media arts industry to develop the curriculum and the facilities. They have all the latest and greatest technology. It's brand new and they are moving those colleges to that location. I guess next semester or the following. This all just happened recently so we are talking to her academic advisers now. They are saying her initial classes will be the same so where she is now won't impact much but should consider moving her there when the facility opens.

I basically did the equivalent at UofA -- it was called Media Arts at the time.

 

[Covert Rain]

I basically did the equivalent at UofA -- it was called Media Arts at the time.

I am just glad to see her passionate about this. She has always loved art but had no clue what she wanted to do with it. She went into this semester taking generals for digital art etc. Her roommate is a film major and so she started looking into it. Boom. All of the sudden she is excited. I will take it.

 

[cheesebeef]

Were they filming after Joker was released? Or at least polishing the script upon the release? Or it sounds like you think it's likely a coincidence that this Batman movie and Joker appear to be in the same universe/style?

Didn’t see this earlier. Interesting. I actually don’t think these movies look very much in the same universe or style at all. Joker was an obvious rip off of late 70’s era filmmaking, going for a gritty Taxi Driver feel and look. There were no hero shots (or anti-hero shots as it were) and it felt as grounded as possible, going even further than a Nolan movie to make it as non-comic book-y as possible. I think The Batman looks pretty stylized, and chock full of the type of explosions and sweeping comic book scenes that didn’t exist in Joker. It doesn’t look like a moving painting like a Snyder movie, or the gothic comic book come to life like Burton’s Batman, but it doesn’t seem to fit Joker’s universe either. It’s one of the reasons my curiosity is piqued because it looks like Reeves is bringing his own vision into it.