The Ayton Plan

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There are factors that need to be included like age, injury, defense, shooting, rebounding, speed and mobility. It gets pretty close when everything is factored into the equation.

Another way to look at it, which center would you trade Ayton for in a straight up trade?

I guess Jokic is probably #1 but the Suns beat the Nuggets 4-0 in the playoffs last season and Ayton did quite well in this match-up.

If age weren’t a factor every single person would likely take embiid over Ayton and a likely super majority take jokic over him too.

 

[Mainstreet]

If age weren’t a factor every single person would likely take embiid over Ayton and a likely super majority take jokic over him too.

If Embiid were healthy his whole career it wouldn't even be close but I'd hesitate to trade Ayton for him with the injury factor.

Jokic is a machine. He is so automatic but I like Ayton better defensively.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't get where people say Ayton has bad hands. He seems to do ok to me. I remember centers with bad hands--R. Lopez, Len, Big Jake, Gortat, Plumlee, and others. Ayton is miles better than those guys at catching the ball.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If Embiid were healthy his whole career it wouldn't even be close but I'd hesitate to trade Ayton for him with the injury factor.

Jokic is a machine. He is so automatic but I like Ayton better defensively.

There’s no doubt Ayton is better defensively. But I think the chasm between them offensively (including play making) is way beyond that. That said, I think you also have to consider construct of team. Ayton may be better for the suns construction due to the balance of skills. But it would be fascinating to see what jokic could do with the suns talent.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't get where people say Ayton has bad hands. He seems to do ok to me. I remember centers with bad hands--R. Lopez, Len, Big Jake, Gortat, Plumlee, and others. Ayton is miles better than those guys at catching the ball.

Ayton’s gotten much better. But early in his career his hands were awful. He still gets stripped far too often in the post for my liking (happened twice last night again), and some games it’s still like he’s got meat tenderizers for hands. But those are much fewer these days.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

I don't get where people say Ayton has bad hands. He seems to do ok to me. I remember centers with bad hands--R. Lopez, Len, Big Jake, Gortat, Plumlee, and others. Ayton is miles better than those guys at catching the ball.

It's because he has bi-polar hands. It's very bizarre. One game he'll look like Deandre Hopkins, the next game he'll look like Edward Skillet Hands. I think that indicates the problem is mental, which means he can overcome it.

 

[Mainstreet]

There’s no doubt Ayton is better defensively. But I think the chasm between them offensively (including play making) is way beyond that. That said, I think you also have to consider construct of team. Ayton may be better for the suns construction due to the balance of skills. But it would be fascinating to see what jokic could do with the suns talent.

Suns would be totally unstoppable with Jokic but there is only one ball to go around.

 

[Hoop Head]

Maybe that should be something the front office considers when CP3 hangs them up. Plant seeds Jokic wants out of Denver and offer Ayton and a boatload of picks for him.

I can't see Denver being happy to pay luxury tax every year to fall short. I can't see MPJ ever being healthy enough to help them for a sustained run. Jokic has to grow frustrated in time. Maybe the stars align and he wants out when we're in the market for a new playmaker.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Pay Ayton, don't screw this up.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It's because he has bi-polar hands. It's very bizarre. One game he'll look like Deandre Hopkins, the next game he'll look like Edward Skillet Hands. I think that indicates the problem is mental, which means he can overcome it.

I have a theory about that. It has something to do with Elon Musk's favorite number.

 

[TJ]

Pay Ayton, don't screw this up.

“Challenge accepted.”
~Robert Sarver

 

[Cheesebeef]

Pay Ayton, don't screw this up.

This is literally a no-brainer.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Lmao so your problem is he thinks he’s the best?

really? you're laughing your *ss off?
that's a bit stupido, Finito considering that i said it was a "minor concern" and "confidence is good, but he (and his agent) need to accept that there are better centers in the league and that there are things he needs to improve."

regarding some of the other analysts,
Ayton said he IS "the best" not that he "would be the best" and the last time i checked:
Jokic and Embiid were top picks for MVP and Ayton is probably just a top 20 player for the season and hasn't even been an All-Star yet

 

[Finito]

really? you're laughing your *ss off?
that's a bit stupido, Finito considering that i said it was a "minor concern" and "confidence is good, but he (and his agent) need to accept that there are better centers in the league and that there are things he needs to improve."

regarding some of the other analysts,
Ayton said he IS "the best" not that he "would be the best" and the last time i checked:
Jokic and Embiid were top picks for MVP and Ayton is probably just a top 20 player for the season and hasn't even been an All-Star yet

Yeah I hate when players I root for think there the best. I mean I remember that time we were playing the Spurs and Amare came out after game 1 and said Tim Duncan was so much better than him. It was so refreshing.

He can get the max and he will his number is capped.

 

[1tinsoldier]

i said he should get the max a few weeks back in this thread, but that's besides the point. to say he's the best doesn't jive with anyones reality, including your own,so it's not the most encouraging position to take when it's obvious there are things he needs to work on and management wants him to be more consistent and motivated TO BE the best instead of assume he's already there.

yes, it is refreshing to hear great players acknowledge another player as the best. and the bonus is that some superstar won't be driven to make you eat your words next time they play you.

what's not refreshing is your witless sarcasm. you're the worst
finito

 

[Hoop Head]

i said he should get the max a few weeks back in this thread, but that's besides the point. to say he's the best doesn't jive with anyones reality, including your own,so it's not the most encouraging position to take when it's obvious there are things he needs to work on and management wants him to be more consistent and motivated TO BE the best instead of assume he's already there.

yes, it is refreshing to hear great players acknowledge another player as the best. and the bonus is that some superstar won't be driven to make you eat your words next time they play you.

what's not refreshing is your witless sarcasm. you're the worst
finito

Why do you turn every minor disagreement into some personal confrontation? It's not that serious.

 

[Matt L]

I'll be pretty annoyed if we trade ayton for gobert.

 

[SirStefan32]

Ayton is not going anywhere. Dude is objectively a top-five center in the league at a very young age. It's reasonable to argue he is probably top-three. He'll get paid and he will stay in Phoenix. Jones is not an idiot.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Why do you turn every minor disagreement into some personal confrontation? It's not that serious.

as if you don't know that jumping on a point someone makes with a snide remark is rude and antagonistic. no, my post wasn't so stupid that it made him "laugh his *ss off". He just didn't like what i said and was too lazy to manufacture a real counter-point. i think you know that knee-JERK impulse too. resist it. and we'll all get along.

 

[Covert Rain]

Get Jokic? No. No. No. The guy is one of the best bigs in the game but he isn't a game changer like Shaq was. Jokic looks great against scrubs and there is not that very many great centers in the league. If we had no center I could understand this take. WE HAVE AYTON. Pay Ayton. His chemistry and athleticism works in this system. Jokic is not that guy. He is lumbering and would slow us down. Plus, when he faces another really good big? The disparity doesn't seem to be that great.

 

[Western Font]

I’d prefer to keep Ayton over the other centers mentioned because this team is working. That he’s a Suns draft pick is an emotional reason as well.

I’d be interested in Jokic (LOL I feel like a fan of certain other teams trying to casually say something like this) if CP3 and Ayton were gone for some reason.

One thing I wonder about is whether Ayton will escape some of the big man breakdown issues because his movement is so fluid. He’ll always make a lot of money but whoever has, say, his third contract may get a lot more minutes out of him than many big men.

 

[Finito]

as if you don't know that jumping on a point someone makes with a snide remark is rude and antagonistic. no, my post wasn't so stupid that it made him "laugh his *ss off". He just didn't like what i said and was too lazy to manufacture a real counter-point. i think you know that knee-JERK impulse too. resist it. and we'll all get along.

Or you could just stop being so emotional

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Get Jokic? No. No. No. The guy is one of the best bigs in the game but he isn't a game changer like Shaq was. Jokic looks great against scrubs and there is not that very many great centers in the league. If we had no center I could understand this take. WE HAVE AYTON. Pay Ayton. His chemistry and athleticism works in this system. Jokic is not that guy. He is lumbering and would slow us down. Plus, when he faces another really good big? The disparity doesn't seem to be that great.

I don’t think anyone is saying to swap Ayton for jokic. And I think a lot of posters are forgetting how he performed when he actually had talent around him. The nuggets were in the WCFs and oriole were picking them to win the west before injuries befell their second and third best players. Surround jokic with the talent on the suns so you can’t double and triple team him and see what you have.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don’t think anyone is saying to swap Ayton for jokic. And I think a lot of posters are forgetting how he performed when he actually had talent around him. The nuggets were in the WCFs and oriole were picking them to win the west before injuries befell their second and third best players. Surround jokic with the talent on the suns so you can’t double and triple team him and see what you have.

I still say no. Jokic would fundamentally change how this team is. We run. We oop. The team is predicated on athleticism. That all changes with a lumbering center like Jokic. Watch him run up the court. He isn't fast. He isn't very athletic. He is as skilled as they come around the rim but he would clog up the middle. Our mid-range would evaporate because Jokic would always be down there. IMO which is one of the Suns strengths. GOD please no.

 

[Raindog]

Ayton is not going anywhere. Dude is objectively a top-five center in the league at a very young age. It's reasonable to argue he is probably top-three. He'll get paid and he will stay in Phoenix. Jones is not an idiot.

I agree that Jones isn't an idiot. But the guy who really is in charge is one of the biggest idiots/jackasses in all of pro sports ownership. So that leaves quite a bit of doubt as to how this will eventually play out.
I am still placing quite a bit of possibly unrealistic hope that the league forces Sarver to sell.