The Ayton Plan

[Mainstreet]

Yeah I've been wondering how that will affect Sarver if he's still in charge. Will he be thrilled by the attention and additional income streams or will he say, challenge met, time to go all Sterling on the club?

I think Robert Sarver has gone through a learning curve since he has been the owner.

In the past, he has been willing to spend the money but only in recent years has he learned where to spend the money.
James Jones has made a big impact on this part of the equation.

 

[GatorAZ]

I so hope he doesn't know what he's talking about here. And if he does have a legit inside source, it gives us even more reason to hope he's ousted before he can do that kind of damage.

I don’t think you need a source to realize Sarver doesn’t want to pay him but he’s hopefully aware enough to match an offer. Given the cap going up and contracts will get crazier it shouldn’t be a crippling deal. Hell Zion is probably getting the max despite bring disgruntled and injury-prone.

 

[TJ]

If I have to choose between a PG coming up on 40 or C coming up on 25 I’m taking the one who’s just entering his prime.

I think it comes down to how they value Ayton as a man. If they do a sign and trade for another max big man then it was Ayton the person if they sign and trade him for some random mix it’s the money.

I wouldn’t mind Ayton/Shamet for Gobert if Utah breaks it up.

I wouldn’t swap Ayton and Gobert straight up

 

[Finito]

I wouldn’t swap Ayton and Gobert straight up

I’m talking if it comes down to trading him because they don’t want to invest in him

 

[TJ]

I’m talking if it comes down to trading him because they don’t want to invest in him

Gobert’s contract is stupid. Dude’s gonna make 38-46mil up until 2026: if we can’t squeeze in Ayton, we’re not gonna take Gobert

 

[Dan H]

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[Finito]

Gobert’s contract is stupid. Dude’s gonna make 38-46mil up until 2026: if we can’t squeeze in Ayton, we’re not gonna take Gobert

AGAIN.

I am saying if MONEY IS NOT THE ISSUE and they do not want to invest in Ayton the man then that is an option

 

[Covert Rain]

I’m a little nervous. Bill Simmons sometimes has a pretty good ear for things. Before contract negotiations last year, he said he was hearing Sarver wasn’t going to give Ayton the five year Max and is sticking by that saying he’s hearing five years still ain’t happening and that Ayton is likely a sign and trade in the off-season.

I wouldn’t put that much credit into Simmons normally, but he was wayyyyy ahead on the Brady non-retirement and forcing Arians to walk.

That said, Simmons definitely has more Brady connects than anything else and not going to harp on it at all now. Too excited for what’s right in front of us to worry about the future.

This team is so tight nit I can't see other players going to James/Sarver telling him they can't deal Ayton. I think if Bokker walked in there and said "If you trade my guy, I am walking when my contract is up" that might get it done. I could see with this group something like that happening.

Then again, I could also see Sarver dealing Ayton anyway then following up with a Booker deal so he doesn't have to deal with it sending this team in another 10 year drought.

 

[TJ]

AGAIN.

I am saying if MONEY IS NOT THE ISSUE and they do not want to invest in Ayton the man then that is an option

Money is, however, the central issue, so that simply cant be ignored. I guarantee that they'd sign Ayton to Mikal's contract tonight if they could. It's at what price do they value him compared to himself and other teams

 

[Finito]

Money is, however, the central issue, so that simply cant be ignored. I guarantee that they'd sign Ayton to Mikal's contract tonight if they could. It's at what price do they value him compared to himself and other teams

I posed two different scenarios. One where money wasn’t an issue the other where money was an issue.

Like I stated earlier and I’ll say it again maybe money isn’t the issue and the issue is giving to Ayton.

You following?

That’s what I’m trying to say. This is all speculation

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Money is, however, the central issue, so that simply cant be ignored. I guarantee that they'd sign Ayton to Mikal's contract tonight if they could. It's at what price do they value him compared to himself and other teams

He’s saying if the issue want the amount but giving that amount to Ayton specifically. Like if sarver said “$210M is fine, but I don’t think Ayton is worth that. If we can land Gobert for that amount, make the trade.” In other words, if sarver thinks Gobert is more valuable than Ayton and jones could make the deal he would fork over the $$$.

For the record I would not be on board with that plan.

 

[Hoop Head]

Ayton > Gobert

Did anyone see the Clippers play Gobert off the floor last postseason? No thanks.

Rudy is an excellent rim protector but he's paid more than Ayton would make on a max so I can't see it being something Sarver or Jones would entertain.

Ayton won't be traded for a Center who makes more than what the max would be for Ayton is next year, approximately $30m+.

 

[Ronin]

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[1tinsoldier]

i'm happy with Ayton's performance and growth this season. and he's pretty much been saying the right things. but a minor concern is the broadcast yesterday mentioning that he said he's "the best." confidence is good, but he (and his agent) need to accept that there are better centers in the league and that there are things he needs to improve.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

When Ayton is engaged and aggressive, it is a beautiful thing to watch.

 

[Finito]

i'm happy with Ayton's performance and growth this season. and he's pretty much been saying the right things. but a minor concern is the broadcast yesterday mentioning that he said he's "the best." confidence is good, but he (and his agent) need to accept that there are better centers in the league and that there are things he needs to improve.

Lmao so your problem is he thinks he’s the best?

 

[Absolute Zero]

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Ya, I have seen enough. Pay the man.

 

[Mainstreet]

i'm happy with Ayton's performance and growth this season. and he's pretty much been saying the right things. but a minor concern is the broadcast yesterday mentioning that he said he's "the best." confidence is good, but he (and his agent) need to accept that there are better centers in the league and that there are things he needs to improve.

Ayton is right there in the discussion for the best 5 centers in the NBA and with all factors considered there is a legitimate argument he is the best or certainly very close. That doesn't mean he needs to quit improving and I've never heard that from him. I want confident players.

 

[capologist]

Ayton is right there in the discussion for the best 5 centers in the NBA and with all factors considered there is a legitimate argument he is the best or certainly very close. That doesn't mean he needs to quit improving and I've never heard that from him. I want confident players.

A legitimate argument that he is better than Jokic and Embiid?

 

[itlnsunsfan]

I could maybe get behind that Ayton has the most natural, physical talent of any center.

Extremely talented physically. Length, strength, athleticism, hand eye coordination, touch, agility. When he's fully engaged, he has MVP level impact.

He's just rather frequently not fully engaged.

 

[Mainstreet]

A legitimate argument that he is better than Jokic and Embiid?

There are factors that need to be included like age, injury, defense, shooting, rebounding, speed and mobility. It gets pretty close when everything is factored into the equation.

Another way to look at it, which center would you trade Ayton for in a straight up trade?

I guess Jokic is probably #1 but the Suns beat the Nuggets 4-0 in the playoffs last season and Ayton did quite well in this match-up.

 

[SirStefan32]

The thing about Ayton is that he doesn't have a glaring weakness. He is a very good interior defender, and he is pretty good out on the perimeter as well. He has a very good mid-range offensive game, and has developed some moves in the low post as well. I don't think he is a particularly big threat behind the three-point line, but he has hit a few of those as well. His biggest weakness is mental- he is not consistent and motivated.

Jokic is clearly better on offense- he can run an offense and score in a variety of ways. However, Jokic can't guard anyone outside the paint, and he can't guard anyone who has any speed in the low post either.

Embiid is better on offense and probably even better than Ayton when it comes to interior defense. I don't think he is particularly effective chasing guys out on the perimeter, much like Rudy Gobert. He also has some serious injury concerns.

Outside of those two, I really can't place anyone over Ayton. KAT and Vucevic can't guard a single chair even if they double-teamed it together, Gobert is not effective on offense, and neither is Capella.

Adebayo might be pretty close and similar to Ayton.

My list probably has Jokic and Embiid in front Ayton, but both those guys have some glaring weaknesses. Adebayo is probably tied with Ayton for the next spot, with Ayton probably being more talented, but Bam being more consistent. I don't trust Embiid to stay healthy. The way that the Suns are constructed, I would probably prefer Ayton to Jokic, although Jokic is clearly the better player of the two. I actually think Gobert would be a really good fit, though he is a bit older. I would probably prefer Bam to Ayton due to consistency.

 

[elindholm]

The thing about Ayton is that he doesn't have a glaring weakness.

He has bad hands and is reluctant to attack the rim. Whether those weaknesses are "glaring" is a matter of opinion, but they are holding him back from being the best at his position.

My list probably has Jokic and Embiid in front Ayton, but both those guys have some glaring weaknesses. Adebayo is probably tied with Ayton for the next spot, with Ayton probably being more talented, but Bam being more consistent. I don't trust Embiid to stay healthy.

I agree that Embiid's injury history limits his long-term appeal. As for Adebayo, I wouldn't call him more consistent, because he missed 26 games this year. He plays bigger than his size, whereas Ayton plays smaller, and is a year older. I'd take Ayton between the two, but it's close.

 

[SirStefan32]

He has bad hands and is reluctant to attack the rim. Whether those weaknesses are "glaring" is a matter of opinion, but they are holding him back from being the best at his position.




I agree that Embiid's injury history limits his long-term appeal. As for Adebayo, I wouldn't call him more consistent, because he missed 26 games this year. He plays bigger than his size, whereas Ayton plays smaller, and is a year older. I'd take Ayton between the two, but it's close.

Both points are fair and solid.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

I actually think Gobert would be a really good fit, though he is a bit older.

Until we meet the Clippers in the playoffs, or any team that can go 5 out.

I can honestly say I would only swap Ayton with Jokic or Embiid. Anyone else could potentially make us worse.