The Ayton Plan

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
59,905
Reaction score
51,231
Location
SoCal
One per year is the very definition of the odds being a against you if there are 31 teams competing.
But there aren’t 31 teams competing. You’re obviously not paying attention bc teams that have two such contracts literally can’t compete, others are capped out, others couldn’t offer a package we could, others wouldn’t be attractive to the player as a destination.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
59,905
Reaction score
51,231
Location
SoCal
I

You really think no counter offer would be listened to?!? If it was offered that exactly what agents want so they can negotiate. It’s negotiating 101. Likely the Suns offered no max at all. That likely killed the talks.

You start with max as an agent and go from there. No agent would have done anything different. The Suns then comeback and say nope not doing a 5 year max. In fact, are not willing to do any max for any years. It must be less. Talks dead.
Suns said Ayton’s crew said 5 year max or no deal. Ayton’s crew has not denied that and there’s been enough chatter that they’ve had ample opportunity to do so. Seems pretty straightforward.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
33,987
Reaction score
11,800
Location
Arizona
Suns said Ayton’s crew said 5 year max or no deal. Ayton’s crew has not denied that and there’s been enough chatter that they’ve had ample opportunity to do so. Seems pretty straightforward.
At the same time the Suns have not denied the Ayton camp claims either. I personally think the Suns were looking for an out to avoid more luxury tax and it’s possible Ayton’s team gave it to them. Doesn’t sound like the Suns tried very hard to get a deal done either.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
59,905
Reaction score
51,231
Location
SoCal
I have no clue. Ayton’s camp says it didn’t happen. You seem to think otherwise. Now you are saying “formal”. Who is playing semantics?!?

Past what? Did you settle something the rest of us were just supposed to run with?!?
It’s not playing semantics when that’s the verbiage they used. People usually don’t use a word like “formal” unless it’s purposeful. Otherwise they’d just say the suns never made an offer. If they know that’s a lie they throw in the word “formal” trying to gain cover for refusing to listen to anything other than 5-year max.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
33,987
Reaction score
11,800
Location
Arizona
But there aren’t 31 teams competing. You’re obviously not paying attention bc teams that have two such contracts literally can’t compete, others are capped out, others couldn’t offer a package we could, others wouldn’t be attractive to the player as a destination.
Sorry got that number wrong. You know what I meant. There is stills a bunch of teams competing.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
59,905
Reaction score
51,231
Location
SoCal
At the same time the Suns have not denied the Ayton camp claims either. I personally think the Suns were looking for an out to avoid more luxury tax and it’s possible Ayton’s team gave it to them. Doesn’t sound like the Suns tried very hard to get a deal done either.
Yeah after shelling out all these contracts this offseason I’m not sure I’m buying they cheaped out on tax on their third best player. And I’m a fervent Sarver hater. Ayton has had a path strewn with bad comments, lackadaisical effort, and bad decisions - I’m betting his team crapped the bed in these negotiations verses jones pulling out a masterful offseason and then crapping the bed on Ayton.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
59,905
Reaction score
51,231
Location
SoCal
Sorry got that number wrong. You know what I meant. There is stills a bunch of teams competing.
Sure there are but again, how many can offer the disgruntled player a likely playoff roster and his team a nice return of players and picks? Likely few.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
33,987
Reaction score
11,800
Location
Arizona
Sure there are but again, how many can offer the disgruntled player a likely playoff roster and his team a nice return of players and picks? Likely few.
That's feasible assuming that player they are trading for fills a current need and just happens to be available.
 

1Sun

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Posts
8,750
Reaction score
1,129
Location
Chandler, AZ
Doesn't make the playoffs? Come on. We were 1 game away from the best record in the league. You just sound stupid when you say stuff like that. Would be a worse team, yeah maybe a little.

I get what you are saying with the cap, you are right for a team that has a multi billion dollar owner that has an NBA franchise as a toy money be damned and you get the best player no matter the tax cost.

That is not the reality we live in with Sarver. He is the poorest owner in the league and like it or not, he is only willing to lose so much money.

Then this franchise is screwed as long as Sarver owns it.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
15,976
Reaction score
10,863
Location
Tempe, AZ
Then this franchise is screwed as long as Sarver owns it.

If you believe that then that's your choice. Everyone else here enjoys the Suns, or tries to, despite the fact that Sarver is the owner. No one wants him to own this team. Yet here you are, acting like you're making some revelatory statement because you crave some sort of adulation.

It's rather narcissistic how you want people to boycott the team because of Sarver yet you won't do so yourself. Proof of that? You openly admitting to going to the finals last year and trying to take joy in a team that you proclaimed is doomed and wouldn't sniff the post-season. You've also openly admitted to trying to get people to join your little boycott you want Sarver out. You don't even practice what you preach! If you want to try and have your cake and eat it too, please do it elsewhere.
 

1Sun

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Posts
8,750
Reaction score
1,129
Location
Chandler, AZ
If you believe that then that's your choice. Everyone else here enjoys the Suns, or tries to, despite the fact that Sarver is the owner. No one wants him to own this team. Yet here you are, acting like you're making some revelatory statement because you crave some sort of adulation.

It's rather narcissistic how you want people to boycott the team because of Sarver yet you won't do so yourself. Proof of that? You openly admitting to going to the finals last year and trying to take joy in a team that you proclaimed is doomed and wouldn't sniff the post-season. You've also openly admitted to trying to get people to join your little boycott you want Sarver out. You don't even practice what you preach! If you want to try and have your cake and eat it too, please do it elsewhere.

I had hope that Sarver had finally turned the corner. Turns out that such hope was foolish.
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
24,247
Reaction score
16,392
Location
The Giant Toaster
Careful what you wish for. Since Sarver bought the team we’ve had 4-5 championship caliber teams which is more than a lot of bad teams with terrible ownership can boast. It can always get worse.
 

1Sun

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Posts
8,750
Reaction score
1,129
Location
Chandler, AZ
Careful what you wish for. Since Sarver bought the team we’ve had 4-5 championship caliber teams which is more than a lot of bad teams with terrible ownership can boast. It can always get worse.

Sarver is currently widely regarded as the worst owner in professional sports. Short of moving the team out of Phoenix, I can't imagine it getting worse.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
112,537
Reaction score
51,772
A couple more comments from Deandre Ayton.


By Duane Rankin Arizona Republic:

"One thing about me, throughout my whole life, I've always learned to control what I can control," Ayton said. "At the same time, obviously I'm disappointed, but I'm still trying to get us back to the finals. I've still got to represent the team and myself as well. I'm just a competitor, man. Just like to compete to the best and every time I'm in between those lines, that's what you're going to see out of me. Nothing else."

"If you've been following me for a long time, I've always hit the rock bottom," Ayton said. "It's always something up with me, but for me, to be honest, I played to the best of my ability when my back is against the wall. I know the true meaning of professionalism and when I'm between them lines, nothing else matters."



 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
35,866
Reaction score
14,554
A couple more comments from Deandre Ayton.


By Duane Rankin Arizona Republic:

"One thing about me, throughout my whole life, I've always learned to control what I can control," Ayton said. "At the same time, obviously I'm disappointed, but I'm still trying to get us back to the finals. I've still got to represent the team and myself as well. I'm just a competitor, man. Just like to compete to the best and every time I'm in between those lines, that's what you're going to see out of me. Nothing else."

"If you've been following me for a long time, I've always hit the rock bottom," Ayton said. "It's always something up with me, but for me, to be honest, I played to the best of my ability when my back is against the wall. I know the true meaning of professionalism and when I'm between them lines, nothing else matters."



The more he talks the more comfortable I become with the decision to not max him. He says the absolute right things but they are meaningless because he has an image of himself and his game that simply does not match reality. So much potential but unless he finally realizes that he is not there yet, he'll never get there.
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
21,754
Reaction score
6,138
The more he talks the more comfortable I become with the decision to not max him. He says the absolute right things but they are meaningless because he has an image of himself and his game that simply does not match reality. So much potential but unless he finally realizes that he is not there yet, he'll never get there.
I believe that the decision not to max him is more about James Jones understanding players and personalities than it is Sarver being cheap. So far, I do not have a reason to doubt James Jones.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,107
Reaction score
60,414
The more he talks the more comfortable I become with the decision to not max him. He says the absolute right things but they are meaningless because he has an image of himself and his game that simply does not match reality. So much potential but unless he finally realizes that he is not there yet, he'll never get there.

End of the day, there’s definitely a chance we dodged a bullet.

If last night is any indication of who he still is... which basically looked like who he’s pretty much always been... fast starter who burns out easy, then I have no problem admitting my anger was an overreaction.

I just can’t help but compare two #1 picks in the same state against each other. With Kyler, we have seen MASSIVE differences season to season and they have been blatantly apparent from the opening whistle of the first game. Just never seen that from Ayton. Outside of the first three rounds of the playoffs last year(which admittedly were AWESOME), Ayton has just looked a lot like the Ayton that walked into the league. A bit better on D each year, but nothing mind blowing and his offense still seems exactly at the same place.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
112,537
Reaction score
51,772
The more he talks the more comfortable I become with the decision to not max him. He says the absolute right things but they are meaningless because he has an image of himself and his game that simply does not match reality. So much potential but unless he finally realizes that he is not there yet, he'll never get there.

Ayton sounds very mature for a 23 year player. He is saying and doing the right things which is important even if they have been previously discussed with his agent. Reality has a way of creeping in as he accepts coaching from Monty and other players.

As we have seen with a couple of other high profile players, this is not always the case.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
33,987
Reaction score
11,800
Location
Arizona
Just more of
End of the day, there’s definitely a chance we dodged a bullet.

If last night is any indication of who he still is... which basically looked like who he’s pretty much always been... fast starter who burns out easy, then I have no problem admitting my anger was an overreaction.

I just can’t help but compare two #1 picks in the same state against each other. With Kyler, we have seen MASSIVE differences season to season and they have been blatantly apparent from the opening whistle of the first game. Just never seen that from Ayton. Outside of the first three rounds of the playoffs last year(which admittedly were AWESOME), Ayton has just looked a lot like the Ayton that walked into the league. A bit better on D each year, but nothing mind blowing and his offense still seems exactly at the same place.
This was sort of what I thought we would see this season. Both Ayton's. The playoffs is such a different beast and a mini-season in itself. Every player in the NBA knows what a slog the regular season is. The one thing that is interesting about the game last night? I didn't really see a change in our offense. We know that Ayton needs to create his own shot. He seemingly worked on it all offseason. I didn't see many calls go to him. So either they don't think he is ready for that yet or the Suns simply don't want to deviate from an offense built around Booker/Paul. If that trend continues I don't see how Ayton ever gets in a rhythm offensively. It's a catch 22 for him. It's always going to be pick and roll, ally oops which isn't going to help him develop the other part of his game he needs to get better at. I am getting the impression the Suns are approaching this more as "if it isn't broke, don't fix it"...they have a finals to return to.

In the meantime, regardless if Ayton "earned it" or not we are still getting ripped even by fellow teams in the NBA because of this which is going to hurt our reputation across the league. There was an article yesterday where a reporter reached out to NBA front offices and talked about one of them calling Sarver cheap. Then on the radio yesterday I heard a similar story and they interviewed a another GM who said they would have paid him and let his play dictate how they approach the end of that contract because part of paying a player is potential. So, regardless of FAN theories or not, the reality is it's almost universally panned moved across the league. Who knows...maybe someday we will look back and say "genius move".
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
88,107
Reaction score
60,414
Just more of

This was sort of what I thought we would see this season. Both Ayton's. The playoffs is such a different beast and a mini-season in itself. Every player in the NBA knows what a slog the regular season is. The one thing that is interesting about the game last night? I didn't really see a change in our offense. We know that Ayton needs to create his own shot. He seemingly worked on it all offseason. I didn't see many calls go to him. So either they don't think he is ready for that yet or the Suns simply don't want to deviate from an offense built around Booker/Paul. If that trend continues I don't see how Ayton ever gets in a rhythm offensively. It's a catch 22 for him. It's always going to be pick and roll, ally oops which isn't going to help him develop the other part of his game he needs to get better at. I am getting the impression the Suns are approaching this more as "if it isn't broke, don't fix it"...they have a finals to return to.

In the meantime, regardless if Ayton "earned it" or not we are still getting ripped even by fellow teams in the NBA because of this which is going to hurt our reputation across the league. There was an article yesterday where a reporter reached out to NBA front offices and talked about one of them calling Sarver cheap. Then on the radio yesterday I heard a similar story and they interviewed a another GM who said they would have paid him and let his play dictate how they approach the end of that contract because part of paying a player is potential. So, regardless of FAN theories or not, the reality is it's almost universally panned moved across the league. Who knows...maybe someday we will look back and say "genius move".

I saw multiple times the team look to try and get Ayton the ball in the post only for him not to be able to seal his guy and when he did get it in the post, still play with the exact same tentativeness that we’ve always seen leading to fall away 15 footers.

And then he just no showed for the entire second half.
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
11,763
Reaction score
9,355
I had hope that Sarver had finally turned the corner. Turns out that such hope was foolish.
He has turned the corner to some degree, he just isn't willing to go all the way.

Old sarver would never have given Paul, Bridges and Shamet contracts in the same off season and even contemplate also giving Ayton a 4 year max deal.

Is he trying to resign Ayton cheap - yeah it sure looks like it. Will he succeed doing so, yeah I think he will. Was it worth it - well he may think it is, after all his reputation was already horrible and he may save 50 -75 million doing it this way.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
33,987
Reaction score
11,800
Location
Arizona
I saw multiple times the team look to try and get Ayton the ball in the post only for him not to be able to seal his guy and when he did get it in the post, still play with the exact same tentativeness that we’ve always seen leading to fall away 15 footers.

And then he just no showed for the entire second half.
Yeah but those plays didn't appear to be part of the regular offensive sets. I remember at least 3 where the play broke down and they tried to throw it to him on the block. He still should be able to do SOMETHING. Maybe it's because he was against Jokic which is no easy task for any center in the NBA. The dude is an MVP so there is that. The next 5 games or so will be interesting to see what we get out of him.
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
11,763
Reaction score
9,355
Sarver is currently widely regarded as the worst owner in professional sports. Short of moving the team out of Phoenix, I can't imagine it getting worse.
Give me a break. You demonstrate your ability to imagine it will get worse in 20 posts a day on here.

Come on, where is the Booker is going to demand a trade, Ayton is going to demand a trade, James Jones and Monty are going to quit, the players are going to refuse to play, Sarver is going to sell our picks, etc etc.

And another thing to remember in life, no matter how bad anything is - it can ALWAYS get worse.
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
11,763
Reaction score
9,355
I saw multiple times the team look to try and get Ayton the ball in the post only for him not to be able to seal his guy and when he did get it in the post, still play with the exact same tentativeness that we’ve always seen leading to fall away 15 footers.

And then he just no showed for the entire second half.
Yeah, that pretty much sums up his entire Suns career. Not sure why anyone would expect anything different.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
534,801
Posts
5,246,505
Members
6,273
Latest member
sarahmoose
Top