The Ayton Plan

[1Sun]

Well the one difference they mentioned was a 4 year does not count on that 2 rookie max thing with the CBA. Sounds like a dumb reason to me, but maybe that is actually why they didn't want to do it.

Who do they hope to get, how could they possibly do so without blowing up their core, and even if they could, what good would it do if they don't have a viable interior player?

 

[Proximo]

So much this. It's a razor thin excuse in which the Suns seem to have moved the goal post multiple times in their "explanation". I get what Hoop is saying that it's not just about rookies. Still....you have to have the assets to make a move to get said player worthy of a max. You likely would need to give up Booker or Ayton to get said player. It's a miracle scenario. It's why the excuse is such weaksauce.

It's not really a miracle scenerio.

I can think of a guy that could probably be had right now you might be able to get without Booker or Ayton - Ben Simmons.

I really don't want him, I hate his game - but his price could be low enough where it could be done possibly. Thankfully Suns don't have the contracts to do it now so we don't have to worry about it - but next season we would.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I think they are more worried that he will be no more than an average center when Chris Paul is out of the picture.

That's a hell of a gamble to take on a 23 year old big man who anchored our D to 2 games from a title.

Big men take longer to develop, that's to be sure. There also is no replacement for Ayton anywhere in the league. Who else can guard Jokic/AD, and score as efficiently as Ayton?

 

[Proximo]

Who do they hope to get, how could they possibly do so without blowing up their core, and even if they could, what good would it do if they don't have a viable interior player?

The idea is they can get Ayton to resign for less than the full max - so he would not be gone. And I think they are right there is a 95% chance they can force him to get no more than a restricted max match if they want to.

 

[1Sun]

It's not really a miracle scenerio.

I can think of a guy that could probably be had right now you might be able to get without Booker or Ayton - Ben Simmons.

I really don't want him, I hate his game - but his price could be low enough where it could be done possibly. Thankfully Suns don't have the contracts to do it now so we don't have to worry about it - but next season we would.

Watch the Suns sign and trade Ayton for Simmons next year and play Simmons at center. It would give James Jones his dream small-ball line up of nothing but guards and wings, and he can prove once and for all what an unmitigated failure small-ball is in the NBA (though in my opinion, the Harden/Westbrook Rockets with PJ Tucker at center already did that).

 

[Proximo]

That's a hell of a gamble to take on a 23 year old big man who anchored our D to 2 games from a title.

Big men take longer to develop, that's to be sure. There also is no replacement for Ayton anywhere in the league. Who else can guard Jokic/AD, and score as efficiently as Ayton?

As I have said before I think Jarett Allen and Miles Turner can both do everything Ayton can do currently - or at least 90% of it at significantly lower than max contract prices.

 

[1Sun]

The idea is they can get Ayton to resign for less than the full max - so he would not be gone. And I think they are right there is a 95% chance they can force him to get no more than a restricted max match if they want to.

Not a chance. That idea went out the window the moment SGA signed his deal, and Ayton's full max or bust stance was reinforced when MPJ signed his.

Ayton will ask out next summer, if not sooner. You can bank on it. And if the Suns think he is bluffing, he will sign the one-year tender and walk for nothing the following season...which very well might be what Sarver wants, as I believe that after the next two seasons, Sarver's plan is to blow up the roster and go into a full rebuild, so he can save money short term.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

As I have said before I think Jarett Allen and Miles Turner can both do everything Ayton can do currently - or at least 90% of it at significantly lower than max contract prices.

I think you severely underrate Ayton.

 

[Proximo]

Watch the Suns sign and trade Ayton for Simmons next year and play Simmons at center. It would give James Jones his dream small-ball line up of nothing but guards and wings, and he can prove once and for all what an unmitigated failure small-ball is in the NBA (though in my opinion, the Harden/Westbrook Rockets with PJ Tucker at center already did that).

No, if they were going to trade for Simmons next offseason - it would most likely be a deal centered on Mikal going back to Philly along with Saric and someone else.

Not going to happen though, because he will be traded before the deadline.

 

[1Sun]

As I have said before I think Jarett Allen and Miles Turner can both do everything Ayton can do currently - or at least 90% of it at significantly lower than max contract prices.

Ayton is a far superior rebounder and scorer compared to Allen, and Ayton has the strength that the rail-thin Allen does not.

Turner is closer, but Ayton is also a superior rebounder and scorer there.

 

[Proximo]

I think you severely underrate Ayton.

Really, than how did Javale McGee just outplay him in the preseason?

Rolling to the hoop is a skill most bigs posess, and that is how Ayton gets half his points if not more.

 

[1Sun]

No, if they were going to trade for Simmons next offseason - it would most likely be a deal centered on Mikal going back to Philly along with Saric and someone else.

Not going to happen though, because he will be traded before the deadline.

Who? Simmons or Ayton?

 

[GatorAZ]

The adding of another rookie max player argument is just laughable and I didn’t even want them to max Ayton. Also, AD’s camp came out publicity and trashed the Celtics/Ainge so they wouldn’t trade for him. He was always going to go to LA with Lebron/Klutch.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Really, than how did Javale McGee just outplay him in the preseason?

Maybe we should give McGee a max?

 

[Proximo]

Ayton is a far superior rebounder and scorer compared to Allen, and Ayton has the strength that the rail-thin Allen does not.

Turner is closer, but Ayton is also a superior rebounder and scorer there.

Ayton is not a far superior scorer. The only kind of scoring ayton is any good at is 5 feet from the basket, and he barely ever gets to the line.

 

[1Sun]

Ayton is not a far superior scorer. The only kind of scoring ayton is any good at is 5 feet from the basket, and he barely ever gets to the line.

And Turner and especially Allen are less effective.

 

[Proximo]

Maybe we should give McGee a max?

Ha Ha.

Obviously the thinking with Ayton is he is still young and will continue to improve - which I think he will.

But if not for the PR issues, chemistry issues, and player relations issues giving Ayton the max is not a good business move since he is not a complete player similar to Gobert - because those things do exist he should have been given the max. But we are where we are now.

 

[Proximo]

And Turner and especially Allen are less effective.

Yes they are less effective - but are they 15 million a year in cap space less effective?

 

[1Sun]

Yes they are less effective - but are they 15 million a year in cap space less effective?

What cap space? We're over the cap either way, and other than McGee on a one year deal, Ayton is literally the only interior player we have. When addressing this debate, it is critical to consider the alternatives. Put Allen or Turner on the roster instead of Ayton as literally the only interior player on the roster last season, and this team doesn't make the playoffs, let alone the Finals.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Yes they are less effective - but are they 15 million a year in cap space less effective?

I don't see either of those guys anchoring a D or holding up vs. Davis/Jokic like Ayton.

Jokic knows that Ayton owns him, and even says as much. Being able to match up with any other big in the conference is a huge deal!

 

[Proximo]

Who? Simmons or Ayton?

Simmons. The Suns have no interest in trading Ayton. Good grief you are such a doomsayer.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think they are more worried that he will be no more than an average center when Chris Paul is out of the picture.

That's a valid concern. Many of us brought up his offensive game MUST develop if he wants to get to the next level. Paul won't always be around and Devin is not the distributor Paul is.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's a valid concern. Many of us brought up his offensive game MUST develop if he wants to get to the next level. Paul won't always be around and Devin is not the distributor Paul is.

Yeah, it is a valid concern but unless they've seen good reason to doubt or question his growth, it wouldn't be enough to keep me from giving him the deal he wanted.

 

[Finito]

As I have said before I think Jarett Allen and Miles Turner can both do everything Ayton can do currently - or at least 90% of it at significantly lower than max contract prices.

And I don’t think you know what your watching or what we ask Ayton to do.

The fact you think guys like McGee, Turner or Jarret Allen can do what Ayton does is flat out ridiculous.

Basketball isn’t as easy as you think it is

 

[Proximo]

What cap space? We're over the cap either way, and other than McGee on a one year deal, Ayton is literally the only interior player we have. When addressing this debate, it is critical to consider the alternatives. Put Allen or Turner on the roster instead of Ayton as literally the only interior player on the roster last season, and this team doesn't make the playoffs, let alone the Finals.

Doesn't make the playoffs? Come on. We were 1 game away from the best record in the league. You just sound stupid when you say stuff like that. Would be a worse team, yeah maybe a little.

I get what you are saying with the cap, you are right for a team that has a multi billion dollar owner that has an NBA franchise as a toy money be damned and you get the best player no matter the tax cost.

That is not the reality we live in with Sarver. He is the poorest owner in the league and like it or not, he is only willing to lose so much money.