The Ayton Plan

[Chaplin]

Yeah Stix is looking like a guy who could be a perfect 4 for this team. A really long athletic defender/rebounder who can shoot the three.

Doh!

To be fair, Stix as a "perfect 4" is highly theoretical because he actually did not play well at all in that 4 spot. Maybe he would have grown into it, but there was a huge difference between him as a center and him as a power forward. I think part of it is that being a 4 requires you to be much more mobile and he just wasn't that yet. Exercising his option might have allowed us to see if he could fit there, especially next year, but I also don't think anyone expected us to be this much of a contender this year either.

 

[Finito]

To be fair, Stix as a "perfect 4" is highly theoretical because he actually did not play well at all in that 4 spot. Maybe he would have grown into it, but there was a huge difference between him as a center and him as a power forward. I think part of it is that being a 4 requires you to be much more mobile and he just wasn't that yet. Exercising his option might have allowed us to see if he could fit there, especially next year, but I also don't think anyone expected us to be this much of a contender this year either.

He’s made huge strides from last year to this and is clearly trending up. That fast out can’t be ignored

The second he was drafted everybody on the planet knew he was physically ready for the NBA.

I didn’t say he was the perfect 4 I said he’s “ looking like a guy who could be” meaning one day he could be exactly what we are looking for.

I hated to see him go but that being said I feel way more comfortable with Craig getting minutes instead of Ish

 

[95pro]

back to the ayton talk.

I think he’s doing better at getting to his spots and know WHEN to take the shot and what type of shot.

He immediately knows when to take the hook, or the jumper. Before he hesitated a lot.

Once he realized how to get to his spot, anyone is able to feed him.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Ayton's shooting numbers from all levels of the floor are pretty insane this year. Specifically take a look at those shooting percentages from 3 feet to just inside the 3 point line. Those are elite mid range percentages.

										% of							FG%							% of			Dunk			Corn			Heav
Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	MP	FG%	Dist.		2P	0-3	3-10	10-16	16-3P	3P		2P	0-3	3-10	10-16	16-3P	3P		2P	3P		%FGA	#		%3PA	3P%		Att.	#
2018-19	20	PHO	NBA	C	71	2183	.585	6.7		.995	.478	.217	.154	.146	.005		.588	.733	.556	.410	.346	.000		.711			.163	135		.250	.000		0	0
2019-20	21	PHO	NBA	C	38	1236	.546	6.7		.977	.461	.227	.188	.100	.023		.553	.725	.411	.393	.386	.231		.746	1.000		.164	83		.154	.500		0	0
2020-21	22	PHO	NBA	C	69	2115	.626	5.5		.971	.530	.259	.137	.045	.029		.639	.766	.517	.479	.323	.200		.714	1.000		.166	109		.000			0	0
2021-22	23	PHO	NBA	C	52	1528	.646	6.8		.972	.343	.403	.172	.055	.028		.654	.792	.618	.519	.471	.353		.807	1.000		.147	85		.000			0	0
Career			NBA		230	7062	.601	6.4		.980	.457	.272	.161	.091	.020		.608	.751	.542	.447	.369	.241		.741	1.000		.160	412		.056	.333		0	0

[thead] [/thead]

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 3/24/2022.

 

[elindholm]

Has anyone watched much of Smith recently, instead of looking at the numbers? Here's a recent game I found, in which he had 13 and 10, so a solid effort:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He still can't run or jump, and his default stance has his weight too far forward on his toes, which is why he's so sluggish to react. Maybe this game is an outlier, but assuming it's representative, he's still the same player he was in Phoenix -- which is to say, a clumsy big with a decent shooting stroke but with neither the strength nor the quickness to be a real contributor.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Has anyone watched much of Smith recently, instead of looking at the numbers? Here's a recent game I found, in which he had 13 and 10, so a solid effort:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He still can't run or jump, and his default stance has his weight too far forward on his toes, which is why he's so sluggish to react. Maybe this game is an outlier, but assuming it's representative, he's still the same player he was in Phoenix -- which is to say, a clumsy big with a decent shooting stroke but with neither the strength nor the quickness to be a real contributor.

Eric, we saw with our own eyes that when he started for us and got solid minutes for a handful of games, he was a real contributor. Still raw, sure. But a contributor nonetheless with potential to be even better considering he’s only 21.

I mean, with just a decent shooting stroke and a nose for rebounds would make him a contributor off the bench for most teams. Maybe not a great contributor, but a guy who can definitely give some minutes as a big. Certainly didn’t hurt us when he started getting run. And again, he’s still pretty raw, but I think the upside is there for the future to get a good bit better.

 

[Cheesebeef]

To be fair, Stix as a "perfect 4" is highly theoretical because he actually did not play well at all in that 4 spot. Maybe he would have grown into it, but there was a huge difference between him as a center and him as a power forward. I think part of it is that being a 4 requires you to be much more mobile and he just wasn't that yet. Exercising his option might have allowed us to see if he could fit there, especially next year, but I also don't think anyone expected us to be this much of a contender this year either.

Confused by your last sentence. Am I reading it wrong because I think after blowing the Finals and getting McGee and Shamet all of expected to be a major contender this year.

Also, even if he couldn’t play the 4 next year or the year after, he already showed to be a really good backup C, on a cheap deal, which might be a hole if McGee leaves for greener pastures this off-season (or did he sign a two year deal?).

 

[Chaplin]

Confused by your last sentence. Am I reading it wrong because I think after blowing the Finals and getting McGee and Shamet all of expected to be a major contender this year.

Also, even if he couldn’t play the 4 next year or the year after, he already showed to be a really good backup C, on a cheap deal, which might be a hole if McGee leaves for greener pastures this off-season (or did he sign a two year deal?).

Who in your mind expected us to be this good? Or at least average enough to give Stix meaningful minutes? He wouldn't have even gotten barely any had McGee and Ayton not gone down at the same time.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ah OK. Because it's pretty scary even though it's not his strength he was still tops in the league. His improvement on the hook doesn't Suprise me as much as the jump shot. Every time he shot that last season, I expected a miss. Even early on this season. I am shocked at how effective his mid-range has gotten as the season has gone on. I said from day on with Ayton that if he ever gets that shot down and comes to the realization few people can stop him down low? He will be a monster.

With what he’s developed the next step is becoming a slightly better ball handler. I’m not talking guard good. But good enough that when he turns for that shot and the big goes to contest he can effectively put it on the floor for 3 dribbles and dunk or get fouled. He gets there he’s unstoppable offensively.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

To be fair, Stix as a "perfect 4" is highly theoretical because he actually did not play well at all in that 4 spot. Maybe he would have grown into it, but there was a huge difference between him as a center and him as a power forward. I think part of it is that being a 4 requires you to be much more mobile and he just wasn't that yet. Exercising his option might have allowed us to see if he could fit there, especially next year, but I also don't think anyone expected us to be this much of a contender this year either.

I agree with the first half of this. Stix wouldn’t have been capable of staying in front of a randle. For example.

 

[Finito]

Has anyone watched much of Smith recently, instead of looking at the numbers? Here's a recent game I found, in which he had 13 and 10, so a solid effort:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

He still can't run or jump, and his default stance has his weight too far forward on his toes, which is why he's so sluggish to react. Maybe this game is an outlier, but assuming it's representative, he's still the same player he was in Phoenix -- which is to say, a clumsy big with a decent shooting stroke but with neither the strength nor the quickness to be a real contributor.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

This guy can’t jump?

He runs and jumps very well. I don’t think anyone questions his athleticism his weight and fundamentals are what needs work but he’s a really good long athlete.

He was a project coming out and he’s clearly getting better. Is this up for debate?

 

[Finito]

Who in your mind expected us to be this good? Or at least average enough to give Stix meaningful minutes? He wouldn't have even gotten barely any had McGee and Ayton not gone down at the same time.

I think everyone here expected us to be serious contenders.

All cheese is saying is McGee and Bizmack are both free agents after the season and we could of had a promising back up C on the roster for cheap

 

[Chaplin]

I think everyone here expected us to be serious contenders.

All cheese is saying is McGee and Bizmack are both free agents after the season and we could of had a promising back up C on the roster for cheap

That certainly tells you more about what James Jones thought of Jalen. Even to go so far as to sign Biz even after Jalen was doing so well.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton's shooting numbers from all levels of the floor are pretty insane this year. Specifically take a look at those shooting percentages from 3 feet to just inside the 3 point line. Those are elite mid range percentages.

										% of							FG%							% of			Dunk			Corn			Heav
Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	MP	FG%	Dist.		2P	0-3	3-10	10-16	16-3P	3P		2P	0-3	3-10	10-16	16-3P	3P		2P	3P		%FGA	#		%3PA	3P%		Att.	#
2018-19	20	PHO	NBA	C	71	2183	.585	6.7		.995	.478	.217	.154	.146	.005		.588	.733	.556	.410	.346	.000		.711			.163	135		.250	.000		0	0
2019-20	21	PHO	NBA	C	38	1236	.546	6.7		.977	.461	.227	.188	.100	.023		.553	.725	.411	.393	.386	.231		.746	1.000		.164	83		.154	.500		0	0
2020-21	22	PHO	NBA	C	69	2115	.626	5.5		.971	.530	.259	.137	.045	.029		.639	.766	.517	.479	.323	.200		.714	1.000		.166	109		.000			0	0
2021-22	23	PHO	NBA	C	52	1528	.646	6.8		.972	.343	.403	.172	.055	.028		.654	.792	.618	.519	.471	.353		.807	1.000		.147	85		.000			0	0
Career			NBA		230	7062	.601	6.4		.980	.457	.272	.161	.091	.020		.608	.751	.542	.447	.369	.241		.741	1.000		.160	412		.056	.333		0	0

[thead] [/thead]


Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 3/24/2022.

I read somewhere that the average center in the NBA doesn't reach peak until the average age of 26 in the NBA. If Ayton is not peaking where will he be by then?!?!!?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I read somewhere that the average center in the NBA doesn't reach peak until the average age of 26 in the NBA. If Ayton is not peaking where will he be by then?!?!!?

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[Finito]

That certainly tells you more about what James Jones thought of Jalen. Even to go so far as to sign Biz even after Jalen was doing so well.

Oh God.

You are so dig into this Stix sucks take it’s ridiculous. Are you so stuck on this take that you can’t even say having him on the roster moving forward would be good?

They want veterans dude. Veterans who can contribute RIGHT NOW for a championship run.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You must be registered for see images attach

Ayton is getting braces?!?

 

[SunsTzu]

Eric, we saw with our own eyes that when he started for us and got solid minutes for a handful of games, he was a real contributor. Still raw, sure. But a contributor nonetheless with potential to be even better considering he’s only 21.

I mean, with just a decent shooting stroke and a nose for rebounds would make him a contributor off the bench for most teams. Maybe not a great contributor, but a guy who can definitely give some minutes as a big. Certainly didn’t hurt us when he started getting run. And again, he’s still pretty raw, but I think the upside is there for the future to get a good bit better.

The more I think about the Suns not guaranteeing him the more I think it had more to do with personality or not fitting into the culture Jones wants. Contrary to how most people view the correct way to run a team Jones seems pretty disinterested in maximizing asset management and is focused on team building/fit. It's the only explanation I have for some of the moves he makes. Whether it's giving away Warren or giving up on a top 10 pick after a year.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Oh God.

You are so dig into this Stix sucks take it’s ridiculous. Are you so stuck on this take that you can’t even say having him on the roster moving forward would be good?

They want veterans dude. Veterans who can contribute RIGHT NOW for a championship run.

Stix? Who is Stix? Is that guy on our team?

We are one of the best teams in league history. We are 9 games ahead of the field. We have a chance to finish with the best road record in league history and we are talking longingly about a back up who is no longer on our team.

 

[Chaplin]

Stix? Who is Stix? Is that guy on our team?

We are one of the best teams in league history. We are 9 games ahead of the field. We have a chance to finish with the best road record in league history and we are talking longingly about a back up who is no longer on our team.

100%

 

[Hoop Head]

The more I think about the Suns not guaranteeing him the more I think it had more to do with personality or not fitting into the culture Jones wants. Contrary to how most people view the correct way to run a team Jones seems pretty disinterested in maximizing asset management and is focused on team building/fit. It's the only explanation I have for some of the moves he makes. Whether it's giving away Warren or giving up on a top 10 pick after a year.

I think Stix's personality was the deal breaker. Jones has limited resources and wanted guys willing to work for it rather than be handed it. Nothing Stix showed last season was worth investing in. He didnt show anything until Summer League and he wasn't exactly playing how we wanted him to. He played Center there rather than PF. Perhaps that's not what was asked of him. Who knows.

He didn't really stand out here until the team was forced to play him due to injuries. So he definitely didn't earn his option being picked up. If he were a veteran then there wouldn't be any second guessing the decision to decline it.

I think JJ mishandled it because he isn't a veteran but I'll give JJ credit for salvaging it the best he could, by trading for Craig, and hopefully not making a similar mistake in the future.

 

[Finito]

I think Stix's personality was the deal breaker. Jones has limited resources and wanted guys willing to work for it rather than be handed it. Nothing Stix showed last season was worth investing in. He didnt show anything until Summer League and he wasn't exactly playing how we wanted him to. He played Center there rather than PF. Perhaps that's not what was asked of him. Who knows.

He didn't really stand out here until the team was forced to play him due to injuries. So he definitely didn't earn his option being picked up. If he were a veteran then there wouldn't be any second guessing the decision to decline it.

I think JJ mishandled it because he isn't a veteran but I'll give JJ credit for salvaging it the best he could, by trading for Craig, and hopefully not making a similar mistake in the future.

Oh now he’s lazy and didn’t have a work ethic

Ok got it

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oh now he’s lazy and didn’t have a work ethic

Ok got it

I don't know exactly what it was but yeah, there have been reports/rumors/statements that suggest he wasn't aware of how hard he needed to work. And that changed but it was after we chose to not extend him. It was still a mistake, he's not the first young player that needed to be taught how to work and improve.

 

[Hoop Head]

Oh now he’s lazy and didn’t have a work ethic

Ok got it

I didn't say he was lazy or lacked a work ethic but there was some sort of personality conflict. Steve elaborated on that more.

I want the best for the kid. I wish that would have been here in Phoenix but clearly there were some red flags that caused JJ and Monty to decide to move on from him.

 

[Finito]

I don't know exactly what it was but yeah, there have been reports/rumors/statements that suggest he wasn't aware of how hard he needed to work. And that changed but it was after we chose to not extend him. It was still a mistake, he's not the first young player that needed to be taught how to work and improve.

All I’ve ever heard from teammates was how good of a kid he was, but who knows maybe I missed it.