The Ayton Plan

[Hoop Head]

Ayton is playing next to two very weak rebounders forwards in Crowder & Mikal. Although Mikal has improved his rebetter. & scoring of late but Crowder is so inconsistent rebounding and at 6-6 235 pounds so Crowder should be able to muscle in for more rebounds. You need more than one that just one guy consistently expected to rebounding on the boards and Crowder is the one not holding up his end of the rebounding load if you want to point fingers. Also Ayton is setting a lot high picks taking him from the basket so to help create shots for teammates and he probably could roll to the basket after setting those picks quicker to gather in additional rebounds. And on defense he does a good job on switching to lane delivering guards coming at the basket as he is very mobile. But some on this board are so critical of Ayton that if or when he is traded their regrets will surface. Sure his rebounding needs to be more consistent, his free attempts increased by aggressively attacking the basket more but he's still young and talented and he and the coaching staff need to work together to help him get better and reach his ceiling. We got a good center he just needs to work to be a great one. At least the potential there. He played 23 minutes last night and got 6 rebounds with 18 points & he could have done better rebounding but you can't rebound from the bench or at least I don't think you can. McGhee had a good game of 19 points not sure of his rebound total but it was more than 6 so together they got the job done and a win. Maybe if Biz could play some power forward minutes and get some more boards but I don't know if that he can or if that's even in the Suns plans. But give Ayton some slack because he'll get bettter.I wished we could have kept Jaden Smith's rebounding but the Suns know more about the talent & situation than we do.

Good post, I agree with a lot of it. I think one thing you need to watch Crowder do though is how he boxes out for others to get boards. He doesn't grab many himself but he clears space for Ayton, Booker, Bridges, and Paul. Watch him on D and you'll see it. It's like how OKC used to do for Russ.

Slight suggestion, can you try breaking that up into paragraphs so it's easier to read? Doesn't need to be grammatically correct, its just difficult to read walls of texts without spacing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Good post, I agree with a lot of it. I think one thing you need to watch Crowder do though is how he boxes out for others to get boards. He doesn't grab many himself but he clears space for Ayton, Booker, Bridges, and Paul. Watch him on D and you'll see it. It's like how OKC used to do for Russ.

Slight suggestion, can you try breaking that up into paragraphs so it's easier to read? Doesn't need to be grammatically correct, its just difficult to read walls of texts without spacing.

Yeah you always see crowder boxing out - often in a much bigger player - and often literally holding or hugging them as a result of his size deficiency.

Also I have to say I think big al is wrong. Ayton’s drop in rebounding isn’t due to the players around him. Booker, bridges, Paul, and crowder are actually rebounding exactly the same, or slightly higher, numbers this season than last. And Ayton’s usage on offense is almost exactly the same as it’s been in prior years. So if all things are essentially equal except for Ayton’s rebounding, you look at the player not the surrounding circumstances.

 

[Muggz]

Yeah you always see crowder boxing out - often in a much bigger player - and often literally holding or hugging them as a result of his size deficiency.

Also I have to say I think big al is wrong. Ayton’s drop in rebounding isn’t due to the players around him. Booker, bridges, Paul, and crowder are actually rebounding exactly the same, or slightly higher, numbers this season than last. And Ayton’s usage on offense is almost exactly the same as it’s been in prior years. So if all things are essentially equal except for Ayton’s rebounding, you look at the player not the surrounding circumstances.

Agree, several times this year I see the ball bounce off the rim and go to where Ayton should be. Most of the time he's on his way back to defend.
This could be something Monte is trying to get him to do. No idea.

No matter what his stats are doing he's a keeper! If we don't roll out the red carpet for this kid we WILL regret it.
The Suns have never had a center with as much promise and a great attitude like DA. And he's already maybe the best center we've ever had, sorry Joe Klein.

 

[AzStevenCal]

sorry Joe Klein.

I think you're supposed to capitalize all three names - Sorry Joe Klein.

 

[Mainstreet]

Agree, several times this year I see the ball bounce off the rim and go to where Ayton should be. Most of the time he's on his way back to defend.
This could be something Monte is trying to get him to do. No idea.

No matter what his stats are doing he's a keeper! If we don't roll out the red carpet for this kid we WILL regret it.
The Suns have never had a center with as much promise and a great attitude like DA. And he's already maybe the best center we've ever had, sorry Joe Klein.

I suspect Monty is asking Ayton to do things many centers are not asked to do like defend outside. I'm not offering it as an excuse for Ayton not putting up better rebounding numbers but it has to be considered. Monty likes his players to be versatile.

Offensively I think Ayton is making progress by leaps and bounds.

Some of this is all about learning and developing.

 

[Finito]

I think you're supposed to capitalize all three names - Sorry Joe Klein.

Joe Klein slander will not be tolerated here.

That man is a damn saint!

 

[Mainstreet]

I think you're supposed to capitalize all three names - Sorry Joe Klein.

I forgot he is still on the menu.

 

[Finito]

Yeah you always see crowder boxing out - often in a much bigger player - and often literally holding or hugging them as a result of his size deficiency.

Also I have to say I think big al is wrong. Ayton’s drop in rebounding isn’t due to the players around him. Booker, bridges, Paul, and crowder are actually rebounding exactly the same, or slightly higher, numbers this season than last. And Ayton’s usage on offense is almost exactly the same as it’s been in prior years. So if all things are essentially equal except for Ayton’s rebounding, you look at the player not the surrounding circumstances.

We must be watching different guys named Crowder cause he never boxes out. He’s a horrible rebounder for a PF.

This also has to do with our defensive scheme. We don’t drop we switch everything because we have a PF and C that can guard the perimeter taking them out of the paint on defense.

 

[Mainstreet]

Maybe it's part of the joke but this is how his name is spelled... Joe Kleine.

 

[Finito]

I forgot he is still on the menu.

Yes he is.

Joe Klein’s Chicago Blue Burger

 

[AzStevenCal]

Joe Klein slander will not be tolerated here.

That man is a damn saint!

Lol.

Kleine seemed to be a nice guy, seemed to give his all - but Smokin' Joe from Slater Mo falls a little short in the Saint qualifications. If we'd won a championship that might have taken care of one of his needed miracles but I think you still have to be dead to qualify. And he was only dead on the court.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I suspect Monty is asking Ayton to do things many centers are not asked to do like defend outside. I'm not offering it as an excuse for Ayton not putting up better rebounding numbers but it has to be considered. Monty likes his players to be versatile.

Offensively I think Ayton is making progress by leaps and bounds.

Some of this is all about learning and developing.

Defending outside would be an excuse if he wasn’t already doing that in previous years, but I don’t see any evidence of his role having changed to have resulted in the decrease.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We must be watching different guys named Crowder cause he never boxes out. He’s a horrible rebounder for a PF.

This also has to do with our defensive scheme. We don’t drop we switch everything because we have a PF and C that can guard the perimeter taking them out of the paint on defense.

None of this is an explanation as to why Ayton’s rebounding has dropped from earlier this year.

 

[Finito]

None of this is an explanation as to why Ayton’s rebounding has dropped from earlier this year.

He had that bad 2/3 week stretch after the all star break but in his last 6 games he’s averaging 11.3

So he’s clearly back on track and even better than before.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

He had that bad 2/3 week stretch after the all star break but in his last 6 games he’s averaging 11.3

So he’s clearly back on track and even better than before.

I don't think that is a great sample to point to. For one it is a really small sample and secondly he had a 19 and 16 rebound game in that stretch and it still only averages out to 11. You would think with those two games in a 6 games stretch it would mean he would be averaging like 14 in those 6 games.

 

[Finito]

I don't think that is a great sample to point to. For one it is a really small sample and secondly he had a 19 and 16 rebound game in that stretch and it still only averages out to 11. You would think with those two games in a 6 games stretch it would mean he would be averaging like 14 in those 6 games.

Well outside of a 2/3 week period for this season his rebounding has been just fine.

Soooo whole season or 2/3 weeks? What we judging on here?

Hey looks like his rebounding is back on track....nope not a big enough sample size, but all the good rebounding games from earlier aren’t a sample size?

 

[Hoop Head]

He had that bad 2/3 week stretch after the all star break but in his last 6 games he’s averaging 11.3

So he’s clearly back on track and even better than before.

He hasn't hit that 11.3 average in 4 of the 6 games. 4 of 6 is the majority, which isn't "better than before" See why that 6 game stretch doesn't tell the whole story? You're cherry picking to force a narrative.

He had 7 straight games failing to rebound more than 9, which he only did 1 time. See, it can easily go the other way as well when being selectively choosing games for no reason.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He had that bad 2/3 week stretch after the all star break but in his last 6 games he’s averaging 11.3

So he’s clearly back on track and even better than before.

When the six games is 16 to equal the poor streak I’ll believe it’s back. Six games is not so much a significant data set. But glad to see he recognize his shortcoming and has thus far responded accordingly.

And none of this is a failure to recognize the strides he’s made offensively. Averaging 20 per game over last 11 games on 67% shooting. Fantastic!

 

[Finito]

He hasn't hit that 11.3 average in 4 of the 6 games. 4 of 6 is the majority, which isn't "better than before" See why that 6 game stretch doesn't tell the whole story? You're cherry picking to force a narrative.

He had 7 straight games failing to rebound more than 9, which he only did 1 time. See, it can easily go the other way as well when being selectively choosing games for no reason.

Do you know what average means and how to find it? So yes of course some nights he will be below the average and some nights he will be above it. I don’t think you know how this works.

You want to talk about minutes? Because our starters have been resting a lot lately with these blowouts. Do you take that into account?

Well he wasn’t even averaging 11.3 rebounds before sooooo

I’m not selectively choosing anything. I’ve mentioned time and time again he had a bad 2/3 week stretch I mean it’s right there over and over in my post, but since then he’s gotten back on track. That’s not being selective that’s stating black and white facts and numbers

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well outside of a 2/3 week period for this season his rebounding has been just fine.

Soooo whole season or 2/3 weeks? What we judging on here?

Hey looks like his rebounding is back on track....nope not a big enough sample size, but all the good rebounding games from earlier aren’t a sample size?

For the season he’s averaging 9.9, so even though just a shade, under double digits. And his lowest average of his career.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think you're supposed to capitalize all three names - Sorry Joe Klein.

Ha! Needed that laugh today. Thanks Steve.

 

[Finito]

When the six games is 16 to equal the poor streak I’ll believe it’s back. Six games is not so much a significant data set. But glad to see he recognize his shortcoming and has thus far responded accordingly.

And none of this is a failure to recognize the strides he’s made offensively. Averaging 20 per game over last 11 games on 67% shooting. Fantastic!

Idk maybe I’m misinformed but I was under the impression his bad rebounding streak came after the all star game on 2/24 the first game back. We all agree it’s after the all star break that had people going WTF right. I know I was.

Rebounds for those games
8
5
7
8
3
8
That’s a 6 game stretch averaging 6.5 rebounds. Huge drop

this is where he comes out and says hey I need to rebound better

In the 6 games since he made that statement about rebounding
19
10
7
16
5
11

In an equal 6 games to his bad stretch it’s now gone up to 11.3

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Do you know what average means and how to find it? So yes of course some nights he will be below the average and some nights he will be above it. I don’t think you know how this works.

You want to talk about minutes? Because our starters have been resting a lot lately with these blowouts. Do you take that into account?

Well he wasn’t even averaging 11.3 rebounds before sooooo

I’m not selectively choosing anything. I’ve mentioned time and time again he had a bad 2/3 week stretch I mean it’s right there over and over in my post, but since then he’s gotten back on track. That’s not being selective that’s stating black and white facts and numbers

That’s why most analysis looks to eliminate the highest and lowest data points. Particularly in small data sets (like 6 games) where an enormous outlier has a disproportionate impact on the analysis. And let’s be honest, 19 is a huge outlier for a guy who isn’t averaging double digits per game.

In a neighborhood where you’ve got one $500k house, four houses at $1M and one house at $3M the average is

Idk maybe I’m misinformed but I was under the impression his bad rebounding streak came after the all star game on 2/24 the first game back. We all agree it’s after the all star break that had people going WTF right. I know I was.

Rebounds for those games
8
5
7
8
3
8
That’s a 6 game stretch averaging 6.5 rebounds. Huge drop

this is where he comes out and says hey I need to rebound better

In the 6 games since he made that statement about rebounding
19
10
7
16
5
11

In an equal 6 games to his bad stretch it’s now gone up to 11.3

maybe your reading comprehension needs some work because a good many of have specifically been talking about the prior 16 game stretch, which included an entire month, during which his average was 8 per game. Surely you don’t equivocate 16 games of data with 6, right?

 

[Finito]

That’s why most analysis looks to eliminate the highest and lowest data points. Particularly in small data sets (like 6 games) where an enormous outlier has a disproportionate impact on the analysis. And let’s be honest, 19 is a huge outlier for a guy who isn’t averaging double digits per game.

In a neighborhood where you’ve got one $500k house, four houses at $1M and one house at $3M the average is

maybe your reading comprehension needs some work because a good many of have specifically been talking about the prior 16 game stretch, which included an entire month, during which his average was 8 per game. Surely you don’t equivocate 16 games of data with 6, right?

A good many? Do you mean you and others like you?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A good many? Do you mean you and others like you?

I mean the people you’re addressing have been primarily discussing a 16 game span.