The Ayton Plan

[Finito]

With McGee as backup I think I would do a sign and trade for KAT. I love Ayton on this team but a team where KAT is your number 3 is scary

 

[Cheesebeef]

With McGee as backup I think I would do a sign and trade for KAT. I love Ayton on this team but a team where KAT is your number 3 is scary

If they’re not going to give him the Max, it’s something the team at least has to start considering.

I hope they give him the Max... even as someone here would deem a “hater”. This team has special chemistry and he still so damn young. @elindholm was right... he doesn’t have IT. He’s not a KILLER. But every great team has three MAJOR pieces to build around and they don’t all have to be killers. we have two killers. Ayton can be an incredible #3 and incredible #3s on title teams usually get the Max, right or wrong the NBA.

 

[Phrazbit]

With Ayton on his current contract we would have to gut our roster to absorb KAT's deal.

Also, I think Ayton, with all his flaws, is a far better fit and more impactful than Towns.

 

[Cheesebeef]

With Ayton on his current contract we would have to gut our roster to absorb KAT's deal.

Also, I think Ayton, with all his flaws, is a far better fit and more impactful than Towns.

I don’t think many of us here disagree with the fit, but the reality is we’re looking at what could be a major headache contract wise if we can’t come to a extension. And if that’s the case, we can’t be left holding the bag with a weak JJ-esque deal in return.

I know people will destroy that idea simply because of the poster who brought it up, but, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it and it could be a scenario we stare down if this isn’t handled properly.

 

[Finito]

With Ayton on his current contract we would have to gut our roster to absorb KAT's deal.

Also, I think Ayton, with all his flaws, is a far better fit and more impactful than Towns.

It’s pretty much the same amount of money if you give Ayton the max. 30 million a year

Your going to have to pay someone.

Say you do a sign and trade
PHX: KAT
Minny: Ayton and 3 #1s

Suns: Thad Young
Spurs: Stix

Now you got
KAT, McGee
Crowder, Young

That’s 3 defensive dogs with one legit elite offensive threat up front and KAT is your number 3 guy now

 

[Cheesebeef]

It’s pretty much the same amount of money if you give Ayton the max. 30 million a year

Your going to have to pay someone.

Say you do a sign and trade
PHX: KAT
Minny: Ayton and 3 #1s

Suns: Thad Young
Spurs: Stix

Now you got
KAT, McGee
Crowder, Young

That’s 3 defensive dogs with one legit elite offensive threat up front and KAT is your number 3 guy now

The problem is that Max deal with wouldnt kick in until NEXT season so you can’t do that trade now. Ayton already has a contact for this season and it’s around 10 million per I think. And by next off-season, he could just sign the MAX with someone else and force us to either match or sign and trade with a team that doesn’t have to be as pathetic as Minnesota.

 

[Finito]

The problem is that Max deal with wouldnt kick in until NEXT season so you can’t do that trade now. And by next off-season, he could just sign the MAX with someone else and force us to either match or sign and trade with a team that doesn’t have to be as pathetic as Minnesota.

Oh your right that it true.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Oh your right that it true.

That’s why people are saying we’d have to gut the team. But I don’t know... how much does KAT make, if we HAD to make the move, if we threw Ayton, Saric and Stix and a couple firsts would that get us within 75% of KAT’s deal. I thought that was the deal now to try and match salaries in trade. Could be wrong though.

 

[Finito]

That’s why people are saying we’d have to gut the team. But I don’t know... how much does KAT make, if we HAD to make the move, if we threw Ayton, Saric and Stix and a couple firsts would that get us within 75% of KAT’s deal. I thought that was the deal now to try and match salaries in trade. Could be wrong though.

He only makes 31 million

Ayton, Saric, Stix and Hutchinson get it done

 

[Cheesebeef]

He only makes 31 million

Ayton, Saric, Stix and Hutchinson get it done

It’s a shame this could hang over the team this year. I still think they’ll be really good and title contenders, but there would be a different feeling altogether if everyone was signed, ready and roll and all in from the jump. I’m sure Bridges will give 1000% and maybe this lights a bigger fire under Ayton, but without contracts and security, who knows if there’s a little pull back on putting everything you’ve got on the line, which is necessary to win a title.

All that said, signed or not I am chomping at the bit to see this team get back on the court.

 

[Hoop Head]

That’s why people are saying we’d have to gut the team. But I don’t know... how much does KAT make, if we HAD to make the move, if we threw Ayton, Saric and Stix and a couple firsts would that get us within 75% of KAT’s deal. I thought that was the deal now to try and match salaries in trade. Could be wrong though.

Only replying because you outlined the deal almost exactly as it would need to be. Ayton, Saric, and Stix for KAT could be done now, with any number of picks included. The main thing is the financials for the deal match up.

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

NBA trade machine, make player trades

www.espn.com

Hollinger's advanced stats actually predicts 3 more wins with that trade as well with 3 more losses for the Wolves. That's interesting.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Hollinger's advanced stats actually predicts 3 more wins with that trade as well with 3 more losses for the Wolves. That's interesting.

Actually it's +1 game for the Suns, -3 for Minnesota. If that's the trade without losing a lot of draft capital, I doubt we could get a better deal for Ayton.

While we have Paul all we really need at the center spot is someone that can decently defend the position, rebound and roll to the basket effectively. But Towns ability to get his own points would help a lot once CP retires. I think we're better off long term with DA but if Ayton sours on us because of the negotiations this would be a nice solution - assuming it doesn't cost a bunch of picks.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don’t think many of us here disagree with the fit, but the reality is we’re looking at what could be a major headache contract wise if we can’t come to a extension. And if that’s the case, we can’t be left holding the bag with a weak JJ-esque deal in return.

I know people will destroy that idea simply because of the poster who brought it up, but, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it and it could be a scenario we stare down if this isn’t handled properly.

I am in 100% agreement that if they are dead set on not giving him a max deal that they will need to try to maximize his value.

However...

It’s pretty much the same amount of money if you give Ayton the max. 30 million a year

Your going to have to pay someone.

Say you do a sign and trade
PHX: KAT
Minny: Ayton and 3 #1s

Suns: Thad Young
Spurs: Stix

Now you got
KAT, McGee
Crowder, Young

That’s 3 defensive dogs with one legit elite offensive threat up front and KAT is your number 3 guy now

You can't do a sign and trade when it's an early extension. If Ayton is signed to an extension we won't be able to trade him until next off-season, it is a rule the league has to keep teams from circumventing the cap.

So, the only way to trade him for KAT is on his current contract and trading him on his current deal means that we'd have to send a LOT of salary along with him.

 

[GatorAZ]

Kellan made a good point on his podcast. If they don't extend DA and he’s regresses slightly or doesn’t take the next step they obviously won’t give him the max after not giving to him now. It would eliminate what the Mavs did with Porzingis in giving him the max after year 4 but before he got a RFA offer sheet. They’d have to trade him in a S&T situation.

That said I don’t think he regresses but it was a point to consider.

 

[Finito]

I am in 100% agreement that if they are dead set on not giving him a max deal that they will need to try to maximize his value.

However...


You can't do a sign and trade when it's an early extension. If Ayton is signed to an extension we won't be able to trade him until next off-season, it is a rule the league has to keep teams from circumventing the cap.

So, the only way to trade him for KAT is on his current contract and trading him on his current deal means that we'd have to send a LOT of salary along with him.

We’ve already broken all this down

 

[Phrazbit]

We’ve already broken all this down

Yeah, I didn't scroll before responding, my bad.

 

[Finito]

It’s a shame this could hang over the team this year. I still think they’ll be really good and title contenders, but there would be a different feeling altogether if everyone was signed, ready and roll and all in from the jump. I’m sure Bridges will give 1000% and maybe this lights a bigger fire under Ayton, but without contracts and security, who knows if there’s a little pull back on putting everything you’ve got on the line, which is necessary to win a title.

All that said, signed or not I am chomping at the bit to see this team get back on the court.

Say you don’t get this done this year and we go into next season and Bridges makes another jump he just gets more expensive

Say Ayton makes another jump and ends up on an all NBA team even all NBA defense now he’s in line for the Luka 207 max no questions asked cause he’s already made all NBA.

I really don’t see the upside to this if your the suns

 

[Mainstreet]

Kellan made a good point on his podcast. If they don't extend DA and he’s regresses slightly or doesn’t take the next step they obviously won’t give him the max after not giving to him now. It would eliminate what the Mavs did with Porzingis in giving him the max after year 4 but before he got a RFA offer sheet. They’d have to trade him in a S&T situation.

That said I don’t think he regresses but it was a point to consider.

It wouldn't stop another team from giving Ayton a toxic offer that's difficult for the Suns to match. Bad teams will overpay for talent.

 

[Mainstreet]

May be a repeat but Ayton, Crowder and Saric work in a trade for KAT.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Actually it's +1 game for the Suns, -3 for Minnesota. If that's the trade without losing a lot of draft capital, I doubt we could get a better deal for Ayton.

While we have Paul all we really need at the center spot is someone that can decently defend the position, rebound and roll to the basket effectively. But Towns ability to get his own points would help a lot once CP retires. I think we're better off long term with DA but if Ayton sours on us because of the negotiations this would be a nice solution - assuming it doesn't cost a bunch of picks.

Oh man. You guys really need to think twice about trading for TOWNS. Covid did real damage to him. It sure why you all think we would have to give up picks in a trade for towns. I would rather have Ayton. Defense.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oh man. You guys really need to think twice about trading for TOWNS. Covid did real damage to him. It sure why you all think we would have to give up picks in a trade for towns. I would rather have Ayton. Defense.

Yeah, I'd rather have Ayton too (and said so in that post).

I know Towns had a tough time himself from Covid-19 in addition to losing his mother and a half dozen other family members from it but are you saying he's physically limited to some degree as a result? I really haven't watched him play in some time so I wouldn't know. If that's the case, then yeah, we'd need to shop elsewhere if we feel we have to move on from DA.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah, I'd rather have Ayton too (and said so in that post).

I know Towns had a tough time himself from Covid-19 in addition to losing his mother and a half dozen other family members from it but are you saying he's physically limited to some degree as a result? I really haven't watched him play in some time so I wouldn't know. If that's the case, then yeah, we'd need to shop elsewhere if we feel we have to move on from DA.

Minnesota Timberwolves center Karl-Anthony Towns says he lost 50 pounds during COVID-19 battle

Minnesota Timberwolves center Karl-Anthony Towns said he lost 50 pounds during his battle with the coronavirus during the 2020-21 NBA season.

www.usatoday.com

Understand that the weight you lose with Covid is muscle tissue. I have been dealing with several people who have this severe form of covid and my father who died from it. The doctors have told them that the virus damages and consumes muscle tissue and while they can recover it might take years to fully recover from the lung, heart, and muscle damage.

Getting that news was so emotionally devastating to my father, who was already physically and emotionally exhausted from the virus, that he refused to continue on the ventilator and died within hours. I am livid about that. Doctors need to tell patients the truth, but not when they are so vulnerable like that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Say you don’t get this done this year and we go into next season and Bridges makes another jump he just gets more expensive

Say Ayton makes another jump and ends up on an all NBA team even all NBA defense now he’s in line for the Luka 207 max no questions asked cause he’s already made all NBA.

I really don’t see the upside to this if your the suns

That could have been the case if we'd signed him to a Max already. It's one of the things that can be negotiated in a max contract extension, he just has to hit it before the new contract actually takes effect.

I don't see any upside either. I still cling to the possibility we are holding firm against a player option but since we've heard nothing to support that, it's looking more and more like we just don't think he deserves the max. And they are right, he hasn't earned the full max, but that's true of a lot of players that get it so I don't understand JJ's reasoning. Pay them.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Minnesota Timberwolves center Karl-Anthony Towns says he lost 50 pounds during COVID-19 battle

Minnesota Timberwolves center Karl-Anthony Towns said he lost 50 pounds during his battle with the coronavirus during the 2020-21 NBA season.

www.usatoday.com

Understand that the weight you lose with Covid is muscle tissue. I have been dealing with several people who have this severe form of covid and my father who died from it. The doctors have told them that the virus damages and consumes muscle tissue and while they can recover it might take years to fully recover from the lung, heart, and muscle damage.

I knew he lost some weight, I had no idea it was that much. And I know about some of the long term damage, I just wasn't expecting that with a young professional athlete.

 

[Hoop Head]

That could have been the case if we'd signed him to a Max already. It's one of the things that can be negotiated in a max contract extension, he just has to hit it before the new contract actually takes effect.

I don't see any upside either. I still cling to the possibility we are holding firm against a player option but since we've heard nothing to support that, it's looking more and more like we just don't think he deserves the max. And they are right, he hasn't earned the full max, but that's true of a lot of players that get it so I don't understand JJ's reasoning. Pay them.

I felt that way also but I'm leaning towards the escalators being an issue more than options, perhaps both. Adding an extra $5-6 million in salary each season if he hits would really throw plans out of whack. It seemed like the Suns were ok with the normal max based on all discussions prior to this offseason but then everyone got those escalators included and that changes the game some. It may be a small increase to Ayton annually but it has huge luxury tax ramifications. If Ayton were a forward or guard then I don't think we'd be concerned with hitting those but the Center position is wide open behind Jokic and Embiid.