The Ayton Plan

[AzStevenCal]

Any thoughts on Ayton demanding a 4th or 5th year player option at this point are pure speculation.

Well, so is everything else we've talked about here regarding this deal. And we aren't the only ones suggesting that's what's holding it up.

I think it's clear that Ayton has to be given a max deal if we want to keep him. He might not have the personal accomplishments to date of Luka and Young but he's at least as important to this team's future as Trae is to Atlanta. The front office has to know this so it makes no sense to me if we're only quibbling on minor issues.

My guess, either they have serious concerns about who Ayton will be once he gets that huge second contract or his agent is trying to force an option year. So I lean towards option year being the holdup.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, so is everything else we've talked about here regarding this deal. And we aren't the only ones suggesting that's what's holding it up.

I think it's clear that Ayton has to be given a max deal if we want to keep him. He might not have the personal accomplishments to date of Luka and Young but he's at least as important to this team's future as Trae is to Atlanta. The front office has to know this so it makes no sense to me if we're only quibbling on minor issues.

My guess, either they have serious concerns about who Ayton will be once he gets that huge second contract or his agent is trying to force an option year. So I lean towards option year being the holdup.

Did Trey or Doncic get the fifth year option deal?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Is it common for players on their 2nd contract to get option year(s)?

 

[Mainstreet]

Did Trey or Doncic get the fifth year option deal?

Trae Young's extension has an early termination option after the 4th season.

Hawks extend Young on deal worth up to $207M

The Hawks have reached a five-year deal that could be worth up to $207 million with star point guard Trae Young, his agent told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.

www.espn.com

Luka Doncic' contract has a player option for the last season as well.

Luka signs landmark $207M deal with Mavericks

Luka Doncic, having already qualified for the designated rookie max extension, signed a 5-year, $207 million deal with the Dallas Mavericks.

www.espn.com

 

[Cheesebeef]

Trae Young's extension has an early termination option after the 4th season.

Hawks extend Young on deal worth up to $207M

The Hawks have reached a five-year deal that could be worth up to $207 million with star point guard Trae Young, his agent told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.

www.espn.com

Luka Doncic' contract has a player option for the last season as well.

Luka signs landmark $207M deal with Mavericks

Luka Doncic, having already qualified for the designated rookie max extension, signed a 5-year, $207 million deal with the Dallas Mavericks.

www.espn.com

What about MPJ or SGA?

 

[Mainstreet]

What about MPJ or SGA?

Shai doesn't have an early termination option.

I'm not sure about MPJ but not all of his contract is guaranteed.

 

[Mainstreet]

Maybe the Suns don't want a player option after the 4th year? It's impossible to know what is going on behind the scene.

 

[1Sun]

Well, so is everything else we've talked about here regarding this deal. And we aren't the only ones suggesting that's what's holding it up.

I think it's clear that Ayton has to be given a max deal if we want to keep him. He might not have the personal accomplishments to date of Luka and Young but he's at least as important to this team's future as Trae is to Atlanta. The front office has to know this so it makes no sense to me if we're only quibbling on minor issues.

My guess, either they have serious concerns about who Ayton will be once he gets that huge second contract or his agent is trying to force an option year. So I lean towards option year being the holdup.

If you believe Woj, the hold-up is Sarver's unwillingness to offer a Max contract, NOT the option year.

 

[Hoop Head]

If you believe Woj, the hold-up is Sarver's unwillingness to offer a Max contract, NOT the option year.

Show me that quote. Woj hasn't said that to my knowledge and I've read almost everything he's put out on this topic.

 

[Proximo]

I think Ayton's situation will get resolved. It is stupid that the Suns are fighting the idea of him getting a max, the Suns holding out for him to "prove it" has far better odds of him making an all-nba or all-star team that only makes him far more expensive to replace. He will either sign in the next few days or extend next summer.

The gambit with Bridges is far more dangerous. If his agent is asking for the max... maybe not, but if they are squabbling over a 4 year 80 million dollar contract vs a 4 year 100-120 million dollar deal... I suspect they're going to get roasted on that one. Barring injury, Brides will be on one of the all-NBA defense teams next year, while also being a premiere outside shooter. He will get the max. If we can get him for less than that now, we need to jump all over it.

It will get resolved, but I really doubt it gets resolved until next offseason.

I agree on Bridges, I think he is actually the more important one to get resigned now, and I don't think it's going to happen.

Like it or not Sarver is a terrible owner.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think this gets resolved but the Suns gain very little in their approach here except pissing off a player who at some point will get to decide if he stays or leaves in the future. Just get this damn thing done. This is just a rookie contract extension. There is not much worth pissing off his camp for. Not for this contract. You want to play hardball...worry about that on the next and don't use some lame excuses about his peers.

 

[1Sun]

Show me that quote. Woj hasn't said that to my knowledge and I've read almost everything he's put out on this topic.

Sources: Suns, Ayton extension talks at impasse

Deandre Ayton is eligible for a five-year maximum rookie contract extension of $172.5 million, with escalators that could reach $207 million, but discussions on a deal with the Suns have stalled, sources told ESPN.

www.google.com

 

[95pro]

This is a conundrum. Ayton provides so much but at the same time so little. He has limited roles but is quite effective at them. He provides just a little more than defensive numbers suggest by altering shots. He's underwhelming in the scoring column but does it efficiently, although his rebounding numbers are in the double digits the same could be said as well. Ayton is a 3rd or 4th option on this team but his limited role is a defensive anchor, while his scoring role is limited by his mindset. I can see why the suns dont want to outright pay the guy.

 

[1Sun]

This is a conundrum. Ayton provides so much but at the same time so little. He has limited roles but is quite effective at them. He provides just a little more than defensive numbers suggest by altering shots. He's underwhelming in the scoring column but does it efficiently, although his rebounding numbers are in the double digits the same could be said as well. Ayton is a 3rd or 4th option on this team but his limited role is a defensive anchor, while his scoring role is limited by his mindset. I can see why the suns dont want to outright pay the guy.

Considering the alternative that they let him go and at best get a Boris Diaw package in return in a sign-and-trade, with Booker and Bridges getting pissed off in the process and also leaving, and with the team back to being entirely unattractive to free agents and disgruntled stars on other teams, what choice do the Suns have?...

 

[Mainstreet]

I think this gets resolved but the Suns gain very little in their approach here except pissing off a player who at some point will get to decide if he stays or leaves in the future. Just get this damn thing done. This is just a rookie contract extension. There is not much worth pissing off his camp for. Not for this contract. You want to play hardball...worry about that on the next and don't use some lame excuses about his peers.

I briefly looked over max contracts for Doncic, Shai, MPJ and Young. There are moving parts such as the 5th year being an option, guaranteed money and bonuses. It's not all about playing hardball. It may be more both sides getting what they want out of a large contract.

 

[Covert Rain]

This is a conundrum. Ayton provides so much but at the same time so little. He has limited roles but is quite effective at them. He provides just a little more than defensive numbers suggest by altering shots. He's underwhelming in the scoring column but does it efficiently, although his rebounding numbers are in the double digits the same could be said as well. Ayton is a 3rd or 4th option on this team but his limited role is a defensive anchor, while his scoring role is limited by his mindset. I can see why the suns dont want to outright pay the guy.

He provided a ton in the playoffs. We don't go anywhere in the playoffs without him. Scoring to me is the one place he can vastly improve because he still relies to much on others to set him up. If he wants to get to the next level he has to be able to create his own shot and get more aggressive on the offensive end. He likely won't be able to rely on someone setting him up for his entire career. He put up historic numbers in the playoffs. For that reason alone there should be no hesitation. Not on this contract. By the end of this contract if he reverts? If he simply doesn't develop? Move on or trade him.

 

[Yuma]

I think there's no way you can extend Bridges and not Ayton. That can be interpreted as really trying to stick it to Ayton. Bad optics on that one. If Ayton deal can't get done, I think by default it screws Bridges. If you don't extend both guys, then it at least looks like a strategy by the front office. If you extend one guy over the other, then it can look personal.

 

[Hoop Head]

Sources: Suns, Ayton extension talks at impasse

Deandre Ayton is eligible for a five-year maximum rookie contract extension of $172.5 million, with escalators that could reach $207 million, but discussions on a deal with the Suns have stalled, sources told ESPN.

www.google.com

And there is nothing there that indicates what the hold up is. Again you are choosing to make things up to fit a narrative that you created to crap on the Suns. Why am I not surprised?

 

[Hoop Head]

I think this gets resolved but the Suns gain very little in their approach here except pissing off a player who at some point will get to decide if he stays or leaves in the future. Just get this damn thing done. This is just a rookie contract extension. There is not much worth pissing off his camp for. Not for this contract. You want to play hardball...worry about that on the next and don't use some lame excuses about his peers.

I agree but a point mentioned in almost all articles is how this season will be a true test of Ayton's character and maturity as to how he responds to this. It could be a costly test for the front office though. Hopefully they're willing to pay that price if he proves it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I just cannot understand what they expect to gain by stringing this out. He's obviously angry already about it, and what do they seriously expect to save? This is already a distraction and bad for the team for very little upside.

With Bridges, he always plays, he always plays good D, he's young, and everyone loves him. Again, if it's over 4-5M per year, that's the cost of retaining good young players that could potentially get more expensive.

Bobby's mouth wrote some pretty big checks after the season, time to pay up.

They are trying to figure out a way to keep this bunch together long-term without going over the luxury tax. The NBA's cap is set up so that deep teams cannot remain deep. Dynasties have to be built around 2-3 really good players and then scrubs or around very good role players who are paid like role players.

You just cannot have 4 stars--Paul, Book, Ayton, Bridges. So, is Ayton a true top three type player that will keep you there over the course of the next six years? He played great in the playoffs, but before that he was inconsistent. Doncic and Young have been great from day one.

And believe me, I have been an Ayton fan all along. I have been the one to say that big men take longer to develop. If this team wants to stay under the Lux tax, they are going to have to make some tough decisions.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think there's no way you can extend Bridges and not Ayton. That can be interpreted as really trying to stick it to Ayton. Bad optics on that one. If Ayton deal can't get done, I think by default it screws Bridges. If you don't extend both guys, then it at least looks like a strategy by the front office. If you extend one guy over the other, then it can look personal.

There is bad optics if the original reports were accurate about the Suns negotiating tactic. I am not saying they shouldn't be negotiations about bonus structure and things like that. That is NORMAL FOR ANY CONTRACT. That isn't the issue. The fact that Ayton's camp has been showing frustration from the get go means there is smoke about the early negotiation tactics by the Suns. THAT is what sucks.

 

[Hoop Head]

To keep this squad together will take juggling salaries and egos. Chris Paul and Cam Payne took concessions to stay. No one here is saying Ayton or Bridges should also but seeing if they will is literally James Jones's job.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

They are trying to figure out a way to keep this bunch together long-term without going over the luxury tax.

That is simply not possible. Even Sarver knows this, and has acknowledged as much.

“That’s gonna come with the territory here,” Sarver said of paying the luxury tax soon. “I don’t know if that’s next season (2021-22) or the one after that (2022-23), but we know it’s coming. We see ourselves as a taxpayer, and that’s just part of what it’s gonna take to bring home a championship.”

The NBA's cap is set up so that deep teams cannot remain deep. Dynasties have to be built around 2-3 really good players and then scrubs or around very good role players who are paid like role players.

Yes, so pay Book/CP/Ayton the big money now, and Bridges a competitive amount, and Ayton/Bridges contracts will go up as Paul's falls off.

Paying 3 guys big money is how good teams win.

You just cannot have 4 stars--Paul, Book, Ayton, Bridges.

Can't or won't!?! Unless you're talking about Bridges getting a max deal, they CAN pay all 4 guys.

You're also completely ignoring the fact that the last three seasons of the deal when the new TV money hits and the cap is projected to run significantly higher.

So, is Ayton a true top three type player that will keep you there over the course of the next six years?

Who knows, but I do know he was a major part of taking a team to within 2 games of a championship, and he's only 23.

He played great in the playoffs, but before that he was inconsistent. Doncic and Young have been great from day one.

He played his best when it mattered most. Doncic and Young don't play a lick of D, and haven't taken a team nearly as far as Ayton.

If this team wants to stay under the Lux tax, they are going to have to make some tough decisions.

If this team wants to stay under the lux tax, Bobby should do what is best for the team and sell.

This is big boy basketball, and it takes big boy money to win championships.

 

[Mainstreet]

Robert Sarver on Arizona Sports. He believes James Jones is still in talks with Ayton's agent.

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[Yuma]

Robert Sarver on Arizona Sports.

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Of course he didn't say much. Would not even confirm reports that he met with Ayton yesterday. Says he wants to come to a deal that is good for both sides.