Tankathon Rankings

[Catlover]

Honestly... you're right of course, but this is more of a statement on the patheticness of the balance of the team, than it is on the "bestness" of Bledsoe...

I'm not sure what you mean? To me, the balance of the team is a big part of why our best player has made us better but not good. To some, removing Bledsoe improves the balance but I don't think that's true. It's just a reduction in talent. Adding Booker to the starting lineup may eventually improve the balance but he's still just a kid with a kid's body, it's not going to help immediately.

I just think you can't have all your talent in the backcourt or in the frontcourt for that matter. It's too bad we couldn't have merged with the Pistons last season to form 2 brand new teams. They had all their talent in the frontcourt and that was as limited as our setup has been.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I'm not sure what you mean? To me, the balance of the team is a big part of why our best player has made us better but not good. To some, removing Bledsoe improves the balance but I don't think that's true. It's just a reduction in talent. Adding Booker to the starting lineup may eventually improve the balance but he's still just a kid with a kid's body, it's not going to help immediately.

I just think you can't have all your talent in the backcourt or in the frontcourt for that matter. It's too bad we couldn't have merged with the Pistons last season to form 2 brand new teams. They had all their talent in the frontcourt and that was as limited as our setup has been.

I guess what Im saying is that WITH our best player, we sucked... Without our BEST player, we such more... I just don't see that as any type of great endorsement of our "best" player...

 

[Catlover]

I guess what Im saying is that WITH our best player, we sucked... Without our BEST player, we such more... I just don't see that as any type of great endorsement of our "best" player...

Nor do I. But I was responding to a poster that was expecting a better team now that Bledsoe was out. I don't think we played to our talent level but we aren't very talented. And we lose games because of it. Taking away our most talented player is a minus not a plus even if it makes it easier to line up players with traditional positions.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Nor do I. But I was responding to a poster that was expecting a better team now that Bledsoe was out. I don't think we played to our talent level but we aren't very talented. And we lose games because of it. Taking away our most talented player is a minus not a plus even if it makes it easier to line up players with traditional positions.

Generally speaking, you're right.. And I would expect the Suns to be worse without Bledsoe... HOWEVER, if they actually played better and maybe won at higher rate now than with Bledsoe, I really wouldn't be surprised as I can see that the chemistry of this team is so bad, that with Bledsoe, it wasn't as if his talents were being effectively leveraged.

 

[Catlover]

Generally speaking, you're right.. And I would expect the Suns to be worse without Bledsoe... HOWEVER, if they actually played better and maybe won at higher rate now than with Bledsoe, I really wouldn't be surprised as I can see that the chemistry of this team is so bad, that with Bledsoe, it wasn't as if his talents were being effectively leveraged.

I don't see Knight as the type of player to build chemistry with. We've bashed Bledsoe here for his lack of emotion but Knight is one of the more dour players I've seen. Also, I wouldn't be shocked to learn his constant references to his faith causes some problems in the locker room. Regardless, this has not looked like a happy team and I don't think that changes with Bledsoe out. And if that's the case, the loss of talent is going to hurt.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I don't see Knight as the type of player to build chemistry with. We've bashed Bledsoe here for his lack of emotion but Knight is one of the more dour players I've seen. Also, I wouldn't be shocked to learn his constant references to his faith causes some problems in the locker room. Regardless, this has not looked like a happy team and I don't think that changes with Bledsoe out. And if that's the case, the loss of talent is going to hurt.

Yea... I don't see the chemistry getting any better until Morris is sent packing.
But, again - if this team "looks" better (which they don't thus far!), I wouldn't be all that surprised.

 

[Catlover]

Yea... I don't see the chemistry getting any better until Morris is sent packing. But, again - if this team "looks" better (which they don't thus far!), I wouldn't be all that surprised.

I don't think that will make a bit of difference. I could be way off here but I really don't believe there is any bond between Knight and the rest of the team. I sure don't see evidence of one but maybe someone that attends games sees it differently. And losing is likely to make the chemistry worse not better and our upcoming schedule has lots of losing built into it. It looks bad for us now but it's going to look much worse as the season goes on IMO.

 

[BC867]

Adding Booker to the starting lineup may eventually improve the balance but he's still just a kid with a kid's body, it's not going to help immediately.

I'm surprised that you would post that. The Suns are hardly in the position to make helping immediately a priority. The more experience Booker gets, the sooner he will develop as a pure Shooting Guard, which we desperately need.

The sad part is that the people calling the shots seem oblivious to the concept of building a winner. They can't see beyond the ends of their collective noses.

A bigger problem is that whoever has occupied the Point Guard position all season long is below NBA standards in getting the best from his teammates. They dribble, they shoot. And everyone else stands around.

 

[Catlover]

I'm surprised that you would post that. The Suns are hardly in the position to make helping immediately a priority. The more experience Booker gets, the sooner he will develop as a pure Shooting Guard, which we desperately need.

The sad part is that the people calling the shots seem oblivious to the concept of building a winner. They can't see beyond the ends of their collective noses.

A bigger problem is that whoever has occupied the Point Guard position all season long is below NBA standards in getting the best from his teammates. They dribble, they shoot. And everyone else stands around.

Sorry but that's not what I've seen. We started the season with a power forward that couldn't shoot and a small forward AND a center that wouldn't shoot. Even Magic Johnson couldn't run an offense with those stiffs around him.

 

[sunsfan88]

I have to be honest. I haven't watched any college basketball this season outside of about five minutes of ASU@Kentucky. This morning as I was working I was listening to this draft chat and it left me pretty frustrated. Of course the Phoenix Suns are finally bad enough to draft near the top. They had #5 in the terribly weak Alex Len draft, and now they are going to get to draft high in another year that is weak at the top. These guys did not even sound convinced that Simmons is the superstar other people think he is.

I hope they do better than 2013 to be honest.

For as weak as the 2013 draft was, the Suns still drafted the worst center in the 1st round despite being the first team to draft a center.

Noel, Adams (who actually starts over the $70 million man Kanter) and Gobert have looked better than Len. I'd say even guys like Olynyk and Dieng look more promising than Len has.

 

[Catlover]

I hope they do better than 2013 to be honest.

For as weak as the 2013 draft was, the Suns still drafted the worst center in the 1st round despite being the first team to draft a center.

Noel, Adams (who actually starts over the $70 million man Kanter) and Gobert have looked better than Len. I'd say even guys like Olynyk and Dieng look more promising than Len has.

I'd take Len's overall potential before any of those players but I can easily see an argument for Adams and Gobert and maybe even Olynyk. But why on earth Noel? What has he done that has you putting him above Len?

Every player you listed has logged more minutes than Len so they've had a better chance to put up numbers but none of them are exactly killing it out there. The more they play the more apparent their limits are but the opposite has seemed true for Len. He's the 2nd youngest of that group (Noel is 10 months younger) and has played the fewest minutes. He also came to the game much later than your typical big man.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'd take Len's overall potential before any of those players but I can easily see an argument for Adams and Gobert and maybe even Olynyk. But why on earth Noel? What has he done that has you putting him above Len?

Every player you listed has logged more minutes than Len so they've had a better chance to put up numbers but none of them are exactly killing it out there. The more they play the more apparent their limits are but the opposite has seemed true for Len. He's the 2nd youngest of that group (Noel is 10 months younger) and has played the fewest minutes. He also came to the game much later than your typical big man.

They have played more minutes because they are probably better.

I'm not a huge fan of Noel however I do think he has more value than Len at this point. The biggest issue with Len is his ability to stay on the court. That means health wise and also foul wise. He averages 5 fouls per 36 minutes. For comparison, Noel averages 3 fouls per 36. Also, I admit I haven't watched as many 76er games as I have Suns games but from the Philly games that I have watched, Noel seems to have better hands and catching ability than Len who has a really hard time catching many relatively easy passes.

I know Len realized that he has horrible hands too and said he bought a football machine to help him with it but I'm not sure its improved all that much. Hard to get a "stat" on this because often times stat keepers give the person who passed the ball the turnover if the recipient (especially in the post for a big man) bobbles it or drops it.

I have held out hope for Len for this long but I figured by his 3rd season that he'll start showing something but I'm not seeing much. I admit perhaps I had higher expectations for him because he was our highest draft selection since Gilliam. However, I think his ceiling may be Robin Lopez while I would rather not even think about what his floor is.

 

[hcsilla]

I don't think that Len has bad hands. Besides, the Suns don't really have an idea how to use bigmen especially lately, so it is not really fair to judge Len on his recent play. When he got the opportunity, his play was quite encouraging.

Having said that Robin Lopez is not a bad comparison, although Len is a bit more mobile and more talented offensively.

12PPG/9RPG/1.5BPG is absolutely not ouf of question for Len if the Suns' teamplay improves and he stabilizes his performance.

 

[TJ]

You'll see! We already began to see it in the Cavs game.

Saw it. Clear as day with how we got pummeled by San Antonio. 0-2 now, soon to be 0-3 after Oklahoma.

It's really this simple--you lose your best player, you become a worse team. This team doesn't have the talent or coaching to begin to compensate for this loss. Aside from the extra ping pong balls we're gonna earn, there is no silver lining from not having Bledsoe.

 

[slinslin]

There is not such thing as pure shooting guard or pure anythings in the NBA.

The best shooting guards of all time were not even greater shooters.

The whole position talk and dual PG lineup is total bogus. Regardless of the players they would play the same system whether you label Knight a PG or SG makes no difference.

 

[BC867]

I don't think that Len has bad hands. Besides, the Suns don't really have an idea how to use bigmen especially lately, so it is not really fair to judge Len on his recent play. When he got the opportunity, his play was quite encouraging.

Having said that Robin Lopez is not a bad comparison, although Len is a bit more mobile and more talented offensively.

12PPG/9RPG/1.5BPG is absolutely not ouf of question for Len if the Suns' teamplay improves and he stabilizes his performance.

I zeroed in on Len during the Spurs game. His appearance vs. other Centers shows a weaker upper body by comparison.

I wouldn't call him a bowling pin, but his appearance above the waist looks weaker than what you'd expect.

Check it out and see what you think.

 

[Catlover]

I zeroed in on Len during the Spurs game. His appearance vs. other Centers shows a weaker upper body by comparison.

I wouldn't call him a bowling pin, but his appearance above the waist looks weaker than what you'd expect.

Check it out and see what you think.

He was certainly outmuscled by that Jaws-looking big man but I suspect every other big man is too. Len does need to add more muscle but he's young and still filling out and he looks like he's added muscle each year with us so I'm not worried about it.

I worry more about his inability to avoid fouls and the fact he still doesn't react naturally to much of what's happening. He reminds me of someone learning to speak a foreign language and that short delay they have as they translate it into something they understand. But he still shows tremendous promise and reportedly has a great work ethic. It's just going to continue to take time and the more game time he gets the better off we'll be.

 

[leclerc]

Problem with two point guards is that they're not good without the ball. A shooting guard can slash, run off screens, so you get more movement with one of each. And you keep both happy.

I also believe Booker will have a much better career than both our tweener guards.

 

[Catlover]

Problem with two point guards is that they're not good without the ball. A shooting guard can slash, run off screens, so you get more movement with one of each. And you keep both happy.

I also believe Booker will have a much better career than both our tweener guards.

That doesn't have to be true. It's not like shooting guards can't know how to run an offense or point guards can't know how to shoot and move without the ball. I'm not sure we have the right pair of combo guards but that doesn't mean the right pair can't make this work. Fortunately, Booker might make that academic for us. He looks to be our future right now.

 

[BC867]

Saw it. Clear as day with how we got pummeled by San Antonio. 0-2 now, soon to be 0-3 after Oklahoma.

Well, we didn't get pummeled by OKC.

And now we've hung in 2 out of 3 games vs. tough competition on the road since Bledsoe went down and we've had a traditional Shooting Guard starting instead of twin marginal mid-Guards.

It will really be interesting next season to see how stubborn the owner and the GM are about going back to the old way yet another time, whether with the latest combination or yet another new one.

And if they bring an experienced Head Coach on board, who will have the credentials to tell them, "You want me? You provide the money. You provide the players (with my concurrence). And I'll run the day-to-day operations. None of this daily meetings to decide on the rotation."

Fat chance! Sarver's history is bringing in neophytes to be his puppets as GM and as Head Coach.

 

[Evil Ash]

Well, we didn't get pummeled by OKC.

And now we've hung in 2 out of 3 games vs. tough competition on the road since Bledsoe went down and we've had a traditional Shooting Guard starting instead of twin marginal mid-Guards.

or it could be our forwards actually played worth a damn but that doesn't fit your narrative so lets ignore it. I will say it again as I have all season - the guards were not the problem. Getting almost zero production from our frontcourt was.

It will really be interesting next season to see how stubborn the owner and the GM are about going back to the old way yet another time, whether with the latest combination or yet another new one.

And if they bring an experienced Head Coach on board, who will have the credentials to tell them, "You want me? You provide the money. You provide the players (with my concurrence). And I'll run the day-to-day operations. None of this daily meetings to decide on the rotation."

Fat chance! Sarver's history is bringing in neophytes to be his puppets as GM and as Head Coach.

Again good job writing the narrative. McD was highly thought of us as an up and comer in the front office ranks and Hornacek was brought in originally to develop players (then the first year happened and the timeline was screwed up)

 

[Catlover]

or it could be our forwards actually played worth a damn but that doesn't fit your narrative so lets ignore it. I will say it again as I have all season - the guards were not the problem. Getting almost zero production from our frontcourt was.

I agree. PJ especially has played very well in 2 of the last 3 games and last night might have been his best all around game for us. He forced the defense to guard him which helped create space for everyone else. I hope that isn't the last time we see him at power forward. He's going to give up a lot there but he'll also have a huge advantage too, if he's aggressive enough to make something out of it.

 

[hcsilla]

I zeroed in on Len during the Spurs game. His appearance vs. other Centers shows a weaker upper body by comparison.

I wouldn't call him a bowling pin, but his appearance above the waist looks weaker than what you'd expect.

Check it out and see what you think.

Marjanovic is a giant, getting outmuscled by him doesn't mean much especially if you are a young, developing center.

 

[BC867]

or it could be our forwards actually played worth a damn but that doesn't fit your narrative so lets ignore it. I will say it again as I have all season - the guards were not the problem. Getting almost zero production from our front court was.

And do you really think that our "getting almost zero production from our front court" until Bledsoe's injury is not a reflection of the two hackers and turnover kings who are were supposedly our side-by-side Point Guards.

Our Forwards did play worth a damn lately and that reflects that our "lead" Point Guard is out injured and the two Tweener Guard backcourt concept had to be (thankfully) shelved.

You can't look at one factor without the other. The Suns without Bledsoe are a better team. And would be even better without Knight. And would be still even better with a talented lead Point Guard.

Our Centers would be better. Our Forwards would be better. Our young players would develop quicker.

The Guards were indeed the problem. And two of the last three games (on the road) against tough opposition have shown it.

 

[Phrazbit]

And do you really think that our "getting almost zero production from our front court" until Bledsoe's injury is not a reflection of the two hackers and turnover kings who are were supposedly our side-by-side Point Guards.

Our Forwards did play worth a damn lately and that reflects that our "lead" Point Guard is out injured and the two Tweener Guard backcourt concept had to be (thankfully) shelved.

You can't look at one factor without the other. The Suns without Bledsoe are a better team. And would be even better without Knight. And would be still even better with a talented lead Point Guard.

Our Centers would be better. Our Forwards would be better. Our young players would develop quicker.

The Guards were indeed the problem. And two of the last three games (on the road) against tough opposition have shown it.

They are not a better team without Bledsoe. You can make an argument that they'd be better off with someone besides Knight out there alongside Bledsoe but they are by every measure available significantly worse without Bledsoe.

And what you envision as a "lead point guard" is something that does not really exist on most rosters. If you were to actually take a good look around the league I suspect you'd really really struggle to find more than a few guys who fit the imagined player you think the Suns should be able to slot in there easily.

Bledsoe is not and never has been part of the problem. During the last 3 seasons the Suns have consistently played their best basketball with him out there.