Suns @ Warriors Friday game thread 12-3-2021

[AzStevenCal]

I wouldn't trade Ayton for Bam Adebayo straight up and he has been an All-Star. Ayton has a much more rounded game.

If it comes to that, I wouldn't trade Ayton for Rudy Gobert either.

Nor would I.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Krang you’re wasting your typing at him. This is washin, rinse, repeat for him. Ayton is infallible. We share the same perspective. And we are right. That’s enough.

Cognitive dissonance can be frustrating.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cognitive dissonance can be frustrating.

The reason I gave up is because the only way to really prove our point would be to go through every possession where Ayton goes up weak and show him each individual video. I don’t care enough about Finito’s perspective to even find just a handful of such examples, but they present themselves virtually every game.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not going to take on someone else's arument but tell me all the centers you would trade Ayton straight up for considering factors like age, injury and all-around game.

 

[Finito]

The reason I gave up is because the only way to really prove our point would be to go through every possession where Ayton goes up weak and show him each individual video. I don’t care enough about Finito’s perspective to even find just a handful of such examples, but they present themselves virtually every game.

Obviously you do

You gave up because you can’t make a case for your argument. Your argument boiled down to to stats are stupid lol. It’s ok

 

[Finito]

Krang you’re wasting your typing at him. This is washin, rinse, repeat for him. Ayton is infallible. We share the same perspective. And we are right. That’s enough.

Never said he was a perfect player. Not at all matter a fact

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Obviously you do

You gave up because you can’t make a case for your argument. Your argument boiled down to to stats are stupid lol. It’s ok

No because you’re apparently too thick headed to understand that stats have zero relevance in our argument. I gave up because it’s pointless to argue with ignorance.

 

[Finito]

No because you’re apparently too thick headed to understand that stats have zero relevance in our argument. I gave up because it’s pointless to argue with ignorance.

Right

As I recall “Stats, Percentages and numbers” are stupid. Gotcha.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Right

As I recall “Stats, Percentages and numbers” are stupid. Gotcha.

In regards to this discussion, yup.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

In regards to this discussion, yup.

Did you know Ayton is taking a higher percentage of his shots at the rim than Giannis this year and is shooting a better percentage at the rim as well. It's crazy to think about because Giannis seems to dunk everything when he gets close to the basket. Both of these numbers are way better than Embiid's and KAT's as well.

Of course Ayton does sometimes pass up shots instead of taking what should be an easy dunk, but clearly his lack of dunking when he does shoot isn't stopping him from being elite at the rim this year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Did you know Ayton is taking a higher percentage of his shots at the rim than Giannis this year and is shooting a better percentage at the rim as well. It's crazy to think about because Giannis seems to dunk everything when he gets close to the basket. Both of these numbers are way better than Embiid's and KAT's as well.

Of course Ayton does sometimes pass up shots instead of taking what should be an easy dunk, but clearly his lack of dunking when he does shoot isn't stopping him from being elite at the rim this year.

And maybe, just maybe, as I said earlier this thread, those superstars, those guys who are beat players on their teams, are typically met with multiple defenders instead of small forwards and guards or single defenders at the rim bc they don’t have Booker and Paul to worry about.

Also this: it doesn’t matter how good Ayton is if he’s leaving points on the floor by going soft. Those are points still left on the floor. If he went strong two things happen: he scores more (either by going strong or drawing the foul and getting to the line) or he begins to attract more attention defensively thereby freeing up everyone else for even greater open looks.

I honestly don’t get people arguing against Ayton playing stronger. It’s a win situation. There’s literally no downside to it. Unless the reason people are arguing is because (a) they don’t watch every game so maybe they don’t see Ayton going soft frequently; or (b) they are the personality type that thinks their favorites should be beyond criticism. I can’t help with either.

 

[GatorAZ]

Remember Ayton’s draft night comp lol…
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[CardsSunsDbacks]

And maybe, just maybe, as I said earlier this thread, those superstars, those guys who are beat players on their teams, are typically met with multiple defenders instead of small forwards and guards or single defenders at the rim bc they don’t have Booker and Paul to worry about.

Also this: it doesn’t matter how good Ayton is if he’s leaving points on the floor by going soft. Those are points still left on the floor. If he went strong two things happen: he scores more (either by going strong or drawing the foul and getting to the line) or he begins to attract more attention defensively thereby freeing up everyone else for even greater open looks.

I honestly don’t get people arguing against Ayton playing stronger. It’s a win situation. There’s literally no downside to it. Unless the reason people are arguing is because (a) they don’t watch every game so maybe they don’t see Ayton going soft frequently; or (b) they are the personality type that thinks their favorites should be beyond criticism. I can’t help with either.

Definitely not arguing against you or Ayton finishing stronger. I am saying that despite his deficiencies he is still elite at finishing around the rim. He also leads all centers in paint touch points per game. For sure he needs to figure out how to be more consistently aggressive, but he is still a pretty darn good player despite that.

 

[Covert Rain]

Definitely not arguing against you or Ayton finishing stronger. I am saying that despite his deficiencies he is still elite at finishing around the rim. He also leads all centers in paint touch points per game. For sure he needs to figure out how to be more consistently aggressive, but he is still a pretty darn good player despite that.

This. The thing about Ayton is if you look where he ranks with his position peers, he is elite as you say despite his shortcomings which is both amazing and frustrating at the same time. If he could just be more consistent and develop his own shot? He would be downright dominating. Many on this board simply don't follow where he ranks but yet at the same time realize how much more potential Ayton has which frustrates people when he doesn't dominate consistently.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Definitely not arguing against you or Ayton finishing stronger. I am saying that despite his deficiencies he is still elite at finishing around the rim. He also leads all centers in paint touch points per game. For sure he needs to figure out how to be more consistently aggressive, but he is still a pretty darn good player despite that.

I don’t think many (if any) are arguing that Ayton isn’t a darn good player. We are arguing he should (and easily could) be a darn great player.

 

[Phrazbit]

The reason I gave up is because the only way to really prove our point would be to go through every possession where Ayton goes up weak and show him each individual video. I don’t care enough about Finito’s perspective to even find just a handful of such examples, but they present themselves virtually every game.

I am in the crowd that would not trade Ayton for Towns straight up, but I agree with you on this. Ayton's gotten far better at establishing himself in deep, but he continues to do these one handed floaters and fadeaways instead of taking advantage of his size and attacking the rim. I think it costs him about 4 points on a given night, either on baskets or the free throws he would be earning.

 

[Mainstreet]

Remember Ayton’s draft night comp lol…
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You mean the guy that missed 2 seasons and is four years older?

 

[Cheesebeef]

You mean the guy that missed 2 seasons and is four years older?

I think he means the same guy who at the same age as Ayton is now, averaged 23/11/4/2 DESPITE not having near the playing time Ayton did to develop his game.

Thus the comparison between the two players’ game looks foolish in retrospect.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You mean the guy that missed 2 seasons and is four years older?

Are you suggesting at the same age we can expect Ayton to do that? That’s your expectation? Hmm. I know he’s not a finished product, but that performance would shock me.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think he means the same guy who at the same age as Ayton is now, averaged 23/11/4/2 DESPITE not having near the playing time Ayton did to develop his game.

Thus the comparison between the two players’ game looks foolish in retrospect.

I agree comparing Ayton to Embiid is not a fair or accurate comparison but Embiid has not had the career I expected either probably due to injury.

 

[Mainstreet]

Are you suggesting at the same age we can expect Ayton to do that? That’s your expectation? Hmm. I know he’s not a finished product, but that performance would shock me.

If I were going to compare Ayton to a player now, at this stage of his career, the closest comparison I can think of is Bam Adebayo.

So no, I don't expect Ayton to put up stats like Embiid did in those four games.

 

[Mainstreet]

For the fun of it, I did compare the careers of Ayton and Embiid. It's not as dramatically differerent statwise as one might think.

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[Hoop Head]

I agree comparing Ayton to Embiid is not a fair or accurate comparison but Embiid has not had the career I expected either probably due to injury.

What did you expect for Embiid? He's been a top 3 MVP candidate the last 2 years who has kept his team in contention since he started playing. He's the best big in the game currently, by a good margin.

I know Jokic is a big but he doesn't play like one. He's unique. Embiid however plays like a 7 footer, using his size to his advantage inside and out.

 

[DJ Tabooh]

I wouldn't trade Ayton for Bam Adebayo straight up and he has been an All-Star. Ayton has a much more rounded game.

If it comes to that, I wouldn't trade Ayton for Rudy Gobert either.

Ok I can understand Rudy but I’d take Bam over Ayton in a vacuum. Better facilitator, better shooter, more versatile defensively. Ayton is bigger and does a better job on the glass but I think Bam is a better overall player.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For the fun of it, I did compare the careers of Ayton and Embiid. It's not as dramatically differerent statwise as one might think.

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Versus Finder is a comparison tool by Stathead.com that lets you compare players and teams across basketball. If you're looking for head-to-head comparisons, the Versus Finder is your go-to tool

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Yeah the big advantage Ayton has there (in stats comparison) is in efficiency but Embiid makes up for it with a huge advantage in free throws.