Suns updates and discussion for the 2023-24 season

[Hoop Head]

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Because teams quit guarding Okogie beyond the arc in October. It doesn't stop him from taking them.

 

[Ronin]

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[1982baskets]

Yeah been saying only way we can win with this team is either go all offense with Gordon/Allen/Nurk to go with KD/Book or go all defense with Goodwin/Okogie maybe Eubanks. We just don't have enough of the two way players to balance it out.

Altough the Allen/Gordon/Nurk lineup shows good defensive metrics longterm I don't see that holding up. Their offense, I actually think would hold up. Allen/Gordon all make plays and shots, Nurk is also a good playmaker and makes things happen on offense. You won't get away with doubles on Book or KD with those 3.

 

[95pro]

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I’d take Caruso over JO if we could swap them.

 

[ProdigalSun]

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Mean anything?

 

[Phrazbit]

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Mean anything?

Hopefully not, I wouldn't want him anywhere near this team. He is a clown.

 

[Phrazbit]

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Mean anything?

I did just remember that they are Eskimo brothers... so, there is that!

 

[ProdigalSun]

I did just remembered that they are Eskimo brothers... so, there is that!

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[Chaplin]

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[Hoop Head]

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I knee his other stats would take a hit but I honestly thought he'd average close to or over 20 ppg. He's really showing that max deal was a huge mistake. Thankfully it's not our problem any more.

 

[Raindog]

Some other cold water for consideration looking forward to the '24 draft where the Suns will very likely have to hit it out of the park with whoever they pick. If James Jones is still in charge (heaven forbid), you can probably look forward to the Suns trading down once or twice so JJ can pick some 26 year old, 6-5 wing who can't shoot, plays a little defense, but "hustles" and sounds good in an interview. In other words, Okogie 2.0.

That's if he doesn't trade out of the draft altogether.

 

[Proximo]

Some other cold water for consideration looking forward to the '24 draft where the Suns will very likely have to hit it out of the park with whoever they pick. If James Jones is still in charge (heaven forbid), you can probably look forward to the Suns trading down once or twice so JJ can pick some 26 year old, 6-5 wing who can't shoot, plays a little defense, but "hustles" and sounds good in an interview. In other words, Okogie 2.0.

That's if he doesn't trade out of the draft altogether.

The way things are going I expect Isiah Thomas to have complete control of the franchise by the draft.

 

[95pro]

Rubio and Cavs may part.

 

[Hoop Head]

Rubio and Cavs may part.

That's interesting. He'd be a really good backup/part time starter. He's making $6.1 million this year and is due $6.4 next year but only $4.25 is guaranteed. So there's some financial flexibility. Based on what I read real quick the Cavs would like to use him as a trade piece, for salary purposes, but he'd match Little's salary in a deal.

We have a trade exception from Payne also, which could absorb his deal and allow Cleveland to open a roster spot and save money. We could in turn do a subsequent deal with them sending Bol Bol for some 2nd round picks. They could then waive Bol, which would be a fraction of what buying out Rubio would cost.

 

[Chaplin]

Rubio is damaged goods. In Spain now for mental health problems and many think his career is over. At the very least, people are saying he isn't going to play this year, no matter where he's at.

 

[Phrazbit]

Grayson for McConnell.

 

[Hoop Head]

Grayson for McConnell.

Grayson has to have more value than McConnell.

 

[Raindog]

Rubio is damaged goods. In Spain now for mental health problems and many think his career is over. At the very least, people are saying he isn't going to play this year, no matter where he's at.

That's terrible. Hadn't heard anything about that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's terrible. Hadn't heard anything about that.

Yeah he lost his mother (and his grandmother) and it hit him hard. I think injuries took a toll on him too.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Suns are 6-7 when KD scores 30+. Last year when he scored 30+ his teams went 13-9, 3-0 as a Sun. I think it's fair to say he's at the stage where he'll get his but won't carry teams to wins with his scoring anymore. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not doubting his skill but I don't think he's a difference maker anymore. Which is why we basically win or lose based on how Booker does.

 

[Phrazbit]

Grayson has to have more value than McConnell.

I don’t see why.

If so, let ‘em throw in some incentives.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don’t see why.

If so, let ‘em throw in some incentives.

I think we need a PG and McConnell helps there but IMO, our biggest problem remains unanswered by this trade. We have a dearth of talent - two borderline superstars and a couple of decent rotation players all dragged down by far too many end of bench players. The talent deficit shrinks considerably when we get Beal (and Okogie) back healthy but if Vogel can't find a way to get quality minutes out of a few of those borderline rotation players we added this summer, we're screwed.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think we need a PG and McConnell helps there but IMO, our biggest problem remains unanswered by this trade. We have a dearth of talent - two borderline superstars and a couple of decent rotation players all dragged down by far too many end of bench players. The talent deficit shrinks considerably when we get Beal (and Okogie) back healthy but if Vogel can't find a way to get quality minutes out of a few of those borderline rotation players we added this summer, we're screwed.

We need a guard who can defend their position, we need a guard who can be a steady ball handler and we need someone to help run the offense late so the first instinct isn't "ISO BALL TIME!"

He checks all those boxes.

Other problems would still remain, but this would be a help.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don’t see why.

If so, let ‘em throw in some incentives.

Grayson is a borderline starter, first guard off the bench sort of rotation player. He can help any contender looking to add a SG or SF for depth, insurance, or to compete with a starter. Straight up, no salary consideration, and he's worth a 1st round pick in the late teens or twenties.

TJ is a steady backup PG at best. He's not a scorer, great shooter, or above average defender. He's really not much better than Cam Payne, if he is even better. He shouldn't see minutes at the end of games and he shouldn't be starting either. He's a good backup, nothing more or less. In a trade he might fetch a pair of 2nd rounders, at most. No one would consider trading a 1st for him.

Just simple value says Grayson would have more than TJ. If you asked every coach in the league who they'd rather have as part of their playoff rotation, I'd be surprised if any picked TJ over Grayson. Contracts are similar, Grayson is expiring, so he makes the perfect rental for a contender

I just don't see how someone who has barely been in their teams rotation has more value than someone who has been a starter almost all year on teams with similar records.

Straight up, I don't see how that makes us better. We'd be losing one of our best, arguably our best, role players for a guy who would really see time when Booker and KD sit. I don't see Vogel changing the offense because we got TJ McConnell.

 

[Phrazbit]

Grayson is a borderline starter, first guard off the bench sort of rotation player. He can help any contender looking to add a SG or SF for depth, insurance, or to compete with a starter. Straight up, no salary consideration, and he's worth a 1st round pick in the late teens or twenties.

TJ is a steady backup PG at best. He's not a scorer, great shooter, or above average defender. He's really not much better than Cam Payne, if he is even better. He shouldn't see minutes at the end of games and he shouldn't be starting either. He's a good backup, nothing more or less. In a trade he might fetch a pair of 2nd rounders, at most. No one would consider trading a 1st for him.

Just simple value says Grayson would have more than TJ. If you asked every coach in the league who they'd rather have as part of their playoff rotation, I'd be surprised if any picked TJ over Grayson. Contracts are similar, Grayson is expiring, so he makes the perfect rental for a contender

I just don't see how someone who has barely been in their teams rotation has more value than someone who has been a starter almost all year on teams with similar records.

Straight up, I don't see how that makes us better. We'd be losing one of our best, arguably our best, role players for a guy who would really see time when Booker and KD sit. I don't see Vogel changing the offense because we got TJ McConnell.

McConnell's role has shrunk because he is backing up the Pacer's best player. His abilities as a facilitator and ball handler are excellent, throughout his career he has had an elite assist to turnover ratio and his assist rates have always been high.

He is also a capable defender.

Grayson is a good three point shooter... he is kinda ass at everything else, and he gets picked on constantly on defense, especially late in games.

Contract wise, he is also our only legit moveable piece of any value.

If we want to address some of the glaring holes on the team, he is the guy who has to go, unless some team has a real hard on for Nurkic. We can't get value out of anyone else.