Suns updates and discussion for the 2023-24 season

Suns_fan69

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Have I logged each block and can give you the numbers definitively NO. Am I positive that a much higher percentage of Nurkic's blocks have not been Defensive stops - YES.

I will admit I am a bit of Nurk hater and this is one of the things he does that bothers me, not blocking it to gain control.

Yes it 100% matters, some blocks are turnovers, some blocks are equivalent to kicked balls or tipped balls.

You don't call a steal and a deflection out of bounds the same thing do you - of course not, one is a change of posession and the other isn't. Personally I would like the stat changed, or a stat added to indicate change of possession blocks.
Because I had a couple of meetings cancelled, I did the math.

I went through the video box scores from NBA.com and reviewed all the blocks for Nurkic and Ayton.

I then classified it on 2 parameters:
1. whether the block stayed in play or went out of bounds
2. who gained possession (own team vs other team)

Stats
Nurkic - 22 blocks
% of blocks stay in play - 68%
% of blocks recovered by own team - 50%

Ayton - 12 blocks
% of blocks stay in play - 67%
% of blocks recovered by own team - 50%

I have it in a spreadsheet should anyone want to check my math.
 

Chaplin

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Because I had a couple of meetings cancelled, I did the math.

I went through the video box scores from NBA.com and reviewed all the blocks for Nurkic and Ayton.

I then classified it on 2 parameters:
1. whether the block stayed in play or went out of bounds
2. who gained possession (own team vs other team)

Stats
Nurkic - 22 blocks
% of blocks stay in play - 68%
% of blocks recovered by own team - 50%

Ayton - 12 blocks
% of blocks stay in play - 67%
% of blocks recovered by own team - 50%

I have it in a spreadsheet should anyone want to check my math.
That, as they say, is that.
 

Proximo

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First, you can't compare steals and blocks. Steals inherently are defined as a change of possession. Blocks are not. So of course someone deflecting the ball out of bounds wouldn't be considered a steal.

This does feel like you are trying to minimize Nurk's contributions in order to prove a theory that the trade didn't work for the Suns as much as it has for the Blazers. Maybe that's not your intention, but it's certainly what is coming across.
You are correct, blocks as they are defined are not like steals - which was exactly what I was saying and why I would like there to be a new stat for blocks that create a turnover - because the value of a block that goes out of bounds or into the hands of the offensive player is of very low value.

I am not saying the trade was bad for the Suns, at this point it clearly appears to have been a good trade when you consider Nurk has nearly been equivalent to Ayton and we got Little and Allen to boot.

That doesn't mean I have to be happy with Nurk's play, just like I would not be happy with Ayton's play this season.
 

Proximo

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Because I had a couple of meetings cancelled, I did the math.

I went through the video box scores from NBA.com and reviewed all the blocks for Nurkic and Ayton.

I then classified it on 2 parameters:
1. whether the block stayed in play or went out of bounds
2. who gained possession (own team vs other team)

Stats
Nurkic - 22 blocks
% of blocks stay in play - 68%
% of blocks recovered by own team - 50%

Ayton - 12 blocks
% of blocks stay in play - 67%
% of blocks recovered by own team - 50%

I have it in a spreadsheet should anyone want to check my math.
Ok that's fine and all - but I wasn't talking about the difference between Ayton and Nurk - I was talking about the difference between Nurk and Eubanks.

I watch Suns games, not Blazers games. I will admit 50% of his blocks being turnovers is higher than I would have expected.
 

BirdGangThing

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Ok that's fine and all - but I wasn't talking about the difference between Ayton and Nurk - I was talking about the difference between Nurk and Eubanks.

I watch Suns games, not Blazers games. I will admit 50% of his blocks being turnovers is higher than I would have expected.
are you still positive Eubanks stats are going to be much different?
 
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95pro

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Ok, but if you watch most of Nurkic's blocks are blocks out of bounds or blocks that are scooped up and immediately scored.

Eubanks blocks have actually been more impactful.

Ok that's fine and all - but I wasn't talking about the difference between Ayton and Nurk - I was talking about the difference between Nurk and Eubanks.

I watch Suns games, not Blazers games. I will admit 50% of his blocks being turnovers is higher than I would have expected.



To me, Eubanks is more athletic and just from memory i've seen more volleyball spikes out of bounds from Eubanks where he just erases someone.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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You are correct, blocks as they are defined are not like steals - which was exactly what I was saying and why I would like there to be a new stat for blocks that create a turnover - because the value of a block that goes out of bounds or into the hands of the offensive player is of very low value.

I am not saying the trade was bad for the Suns, at this point it clearly appears to have been a good trade when you consider Nurk has nearly been equivalent to Ayton and we got Little and Allen to boot.

That doesn't mean I have to be happy with Nurk's play, just like I would not be happy with Ayton's play this season.
I completely disagree here. Most blocks are of shots that would have essentially been a guaranteed bucket had they not been blocked (layups, dunks, floaters near the basket). Even a block out of bounds or into the hands of another player on the other team is likely to lead to a lower percentage shot than the shot that was blocked to begin with.
 

Hoop Head

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Because I had a couple of meetings cancelled, I did the math.

I went through the video box scores from NBA.com and reviewed all the blocks for Nurkic and Ayton.

I then classified it on 2 parameters:
1. whether the block stayed in play or went out of bounds
2. who gained possession (own team vs other team)

Stats
Nurkic - 22 blocks
% of blocks stay in play - 68%
% of blocks recovered by own team - 50%

Ayton - 12 blocks
% of blocks stay in play - 67%
% of blocks recovered by own team - 50%

I have it in a spreadsheet should anyone want to check my math.

I love this post so much as it helps highlight why I love this board. It seems no matter what the discussion involves someone here will do the research to get the answer to some things that are openly pondered.

Appreciate the dedication sir! I have no stake in this argument or discussion, BTW, but I do love some quality analytics.
 

Suns_fan69

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Ok that's fine and all - but I wasn't talking about the difference between Ayton and Nurk - I was talking about the difference between Nurk and Eubanks.

I watch Suns games, not Blazers games. I will admit 50% of his blocks being turnovers is higher than I would have expected.
My bad, I misinterpreted the argument. I went back and ran the numbers for Eubanks.

Eubanks - 18 blocks
% of blocks stay in play - 89%
% of blocks recovered by own team - 72%

In this case you're right, Eubanks does a much better job both keeping the ball in play and having it being recovered.

EDIT: Here's the spreadsheet if anyone wants to audit (includes links to the video box scores from NBA)
 
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Mainstreet

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As noted in another thread, the Suns will advance as a wildcard team in the In-Season Tournament.

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Mainstreet

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As previously noted, I believe by @Hoop Head, advancing in the Tournament is huge, especially for the lower salaried players.

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Mainstreet

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The Suns will play at the Lakers or Kings in the In-Season Tournament as a wildcard team.

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Superbone

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We play the Lakers at 10 pm ET on Tuesday:

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Phrazbit

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As a ticket holder, I reeeeeeeeally don't like the in season tournament as structured.

I have a half season package, I am in "group A". I got zero of the home "tourny" games, however, should the Suns either get eliminated, or win their group, I would get a home game in either the quarterfinal or some sort of 'make up' game against a team that didn't advance.

The Suns lost their group but advanced as a wild card. Now they play a road game vs the Lakers on a date when the game I had would take place. I've also already paid for this game that will not take place, I assume the cost will be refunded but I have yet to hear how.

I have opinions on how to make it better, but I think this current structure is ass. I utterly hate it. I wish Houston had won by 50 and eliminated us tonight.

This is a very arbitrary and idiotic tournament.
 

95pro

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As a ticket holder, I reeeeeeeeally don't like the in season tournament as structured.

I have a half season package, I am in "group A". I got zero of the home "tourny" games, however, should the Suns either get eliminated, or win their group, I would get a home game in either the quarterfinal or some sort of 'make up' game against a team that didn't advance.

The Suns lost their group but advanced as a wild card. Now they play a road game vs the Lakers on a date when the game I had would take place. I've also already paid for this game that will not take place, I assume the cost will be refunded but I have yet to hear how.

I have opinions on how to make it better, but I think this current structure is ass. I utterly hate it. I wish Houston had won by 50 and eliminated us tonight.

This is a very arbitrary and idiotic tournament.


As a guy with just some old school rabbit ears, I'm just glad I can enjoy some games on the TV. Bring on the Lakers though.
 

Proximo

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My bad, I misinterpreted the argument. I went back and ran the numbers for Eubanks.

Eubanks - 18 blocks
% of blocks stay in play - 89%
% of blocks recovered by own team - 72%

In this case you're right, Eubanks does a much better job both keeping the ball in play and having it being recovered.

EDIT: Here's the spreadsheet if anyone wants to audit (includes links to the video box scores from NBA)
Thank you for doing the research.

It's nice to know my bias isn't making me completely hallucinate.
 
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Mainstreet

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Here are some Tournament odds. The Suns have 5-1 odds to win the Tournament Cup.

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Proximo

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Here are some Tournament odds. The Suns have 5-1 odds to win the Tournament Cup.

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Hmm. I would take the Suns if I wasn't worried about KD's injury - but I am.
 

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