Suns updates and discussion for the 2022-23 season

AzStevenCal

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Brown by himself is worth more than Bridges and Cam come on now
I don't think that's the slam dunk you seem to think it is. Brown might have more percieved value around the league, I don't profess to know, but Mikal plays every night and is the consummate team player. Brown misses a lot of games and he and Tatum have frequently been at odds on who gets to be the man. Myself, I'd take Mikal and for whatever it's worth, he holds a nice career edge over Brown in VORP (9.8 to 8.1).
 

Covert Rain

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The Nets said that the deal they got was the deal they asked for in the summer, we were widely reported to be unwilling to part with Bridges.
That's not accurate. Brian Windhorst on ESPN's reported it was the combo of trading two young players PLUS all the picks that the Suns were balking at. It wasn't reporting widely it was just because of Bridges. Windhorst made it sounds like the Suns were willing to do one or the other but not both.
 

Phrazbit

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That's not accurate. Brian Windhorst on ESPN's reported it was the combo of trading two young players PLUS all the picks that the Suns were balking at. It wasn't reporting widely it was just because of Bridges. Windhorst made it sounds like the Suns were willing to do one or the other but not both.

K, well, after the trade went down it was reported that the Suns had refused to include Bridges entirely up until that point. We were offering Cam, filler and picks or trying to build a trade around Ayton.

And even if what you say is how it went down, it's still an embarrassing failure of negotiation.

Basically, they demanded a ruinous trade over the Summer, their situation grew far more desperate, KD's health questions grew even more severe and we smashed the panic button and made the ruinous version of the deal.
 

Covert Rain

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K, well, after the trade went down it was reported that the Suns had refused to include Bridges entirely up until that point. We were offering Cam, filler and picks or trying to build a trade around Ayton.

And even if what you say is how it went down, it's still an embarrassing failure of negotiation.

Basically, they demanded a ruinous trade over the Summer, their situation grew far more desperate, KD's health questions grew even more severe and we smashed the panic button and made the ruinous version of the deal.
I read multiple reports that it was the combo and they also reported that on the radio. It sure sounded like Sarver was the hold up. That's why I think Ishbia came in and said, do it. James Jones said he tried to keep Bridges but he never indicated it was no go just because of Bridges either. Who knows how these things go down behind closed doors though.
 

Raindog

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I honestly think they didn't.

Memphis supposedly offered 4 picks and swaps but made every piece of their core (Morant, JJJ, Bane, Brooks) untouchable. That was their next best reported offer... we blew it to pieces.
In any case, you may be neglecting the reality that Durant is still under contract for three more years. Brooklyn had all the time in the world (relatively speaking) to wait for a better deal... it wasnt like the clock was really ticking on their part. And frankly it wouldn't be that hard to top Cam Johnson, Crowder, and a bunch of probable low first rounders.
 

Phrazbit

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I read multiple reports that it was the combo and they also reported that on the radio. It sure sounded like Sarver was the hold up. That's why I think Ishbia came in and said, do it. James Jones said he tried to keep Bridges but he never indicated it was no go just because of Bridges either. Who knows how these things go down behind closed doors though.

I think Jones was the holdup, Ishbia wanted to make a splash.

He sure did.
 

Phrazbit

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In any case, you may be neglecting the reality that Durant is still under contract for three more years. Brooklyn had all the time in the world (relatively speaking) to wait for a better deal... it wasnt like the clock was really ticking on their part. And frankly it wouldn't be that hard to top Cam Johnson, Crowder, and a bunch of probable low first rounders.

Durant was under contract for 3 more years, he'd also made 2 trade demands, both with the instruction to go here, he got a coach fired, he missed half the season and will be 35 next year.

They COULD have held onto him. It probably would have led to them trading him for far far less, after he either sat out or got hurt again... but they could have held onto him.
 

Covert Rain

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I think Jones was the holdup, Ishbia wanted to make a splash.

He sure did.
I doubt it. When you give up that much for a player you better believe the owner is involved and has the final say.
 

Covert Rain

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In any case, you may be neglecting the reality that Durant is still under contract for three more years. Brooklyn had all the time in the world (relatively speaking) to wait for a better deal... it wasnt like the clock was really ticking on their part. And frankly it wouldn't be that hard to top Cam Johnson, Crowder, and a bunch of probable low first rounders.
Yep this. They could have easily waited. A team that was unwiling to part with part X could have easily changed their mind if they fell short. There is no telling what the market would have done. Espeically, if KD came back during that time and looked good.
 

Phrazbit

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I doubt it. When you give up that much for a player you better believe the owner is involved and has the final say.

I don't see how that goes against what I said.

I don't think Jones was willing to meet the Nets demands, Ishbia bought the team and forced the issue.
 

Phrazbit

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Yep this. They could have easily waited. A team that was unwiling to part with part X could have easily changed their mind if they fell short. There is no telling what the market would have done. Espeically, if KD came back during that time and looked good.

Or he doesn't come back at all or he comes back and/or (as it actually happened) immediately gets hurt again. If those things happen, his value promptly plummets.
 

Covert Rain

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I don't see how that goes against what I said.

I don't think Jones was willing to meet the Nets demands, Ishbia bought the team and forced the issue.
I think the fact James Jones initiated contact with the Nets twice knowing what it would cost indicates it was an owner thing. Just my two cents.
 

Covert Rain

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Or he doesn't come back at all or he comes back and/or (as it actually happened) immediately gets hurt again. If those things happen, his value promptly plummets.
Sure that is possible but the opposite is also possible. At the end of the day the Nets were under no pressure to get rid of KD for anything short of what they wanted. If the Suns didn't give them what they wanted I don't think they had any issue taking their chances in the offseason.
 

Phrazbit

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Sure that is possible but the opposite is also possible. At the end of the day the Nets were under no pressure to get rid of KD for anything short of what they wanted. If the Suns didn't give them what they wanted I don't think they had any issue taking their chances in the offseason.

I mean... I don't see how you can say they were under no pressure, he made another trade demand, they already fired a coach to appease him, and there was a real chance that he simply wasn't going to play for them again, sitting out until they moved him.

And, as I said, they had the risk that he gets hurt again and totally ruins his market.

Personally, I think there was zero chance KD was ever going to put on a Nets uniform again.

We are not talking about a 25 year old star. KD is 34, his value is going to drop drastically with each passing year.

They had to move him, ASAP.
 

Covert Rain

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I mean... I don't see how you can say they were under no pressure, he made another trade demand, they already fired a coach to appease him, and there was a real chance that he simply wasn't going to play for them again, sitting out until they moved him.

And, as I said, they had the risk that he gets hurt again and totally ruins his market.

Personally, I think there was zero chance KD was ever going to put on a Nets uniform again.

We are not talking about a 25 year old star. KD is 34, his value is going to drop drastically with each passing year.

They had to move him, ASAP.
The Nets the fist time made it clear they were not trading KD unless they got what they wanted. Sure KD would have been unhappy but there were multiple reports the Nets felt no obligation to trade him unless they got what they felt was fair value. If the Nets were in panick mode about his injuries the first deal would have gotten done. They were saying that once they decided to move Kyrie it opened the door for KD. If not for that deal they both would still be there. Doesn't sound like they were panicked to me about his injuries.
 

Phrazbit

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The Nets the fist time made it clear they were not trading KD unless they got what they wanted. Sure KD would have been unhappy but there were multiple reports the Nets felt no obligation to trade him unless they got what they felt was fair value. If the Nets were in panick mode about his injuries the first deal would have gotten done.

If he refused to play for them again, which I suspect was where things were heading, they would have been beyond panic mode.
 

Covert Rain

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If he refused to play for them again, which I suspect was where things were heading, they would have been beyond panic mode.
Again, if they had not decided to move Kyrie that wasn't going to happen this season. That likely would have occured after the season.
 

AzStevenCal

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I read multiple reports that it was the combo and they also reported that on the radio. It sure sounded like Sarver was the hold up. That's why I think Ishbia came in and said, do it. James Jones said he tried to keep Bridges but he never indicated it was no go just because of Bridges either. Who knows how these things go down behind closed doors though.
And I read multiple reports plus one and heard it reported on the radio, TV and the high speeds sports wire that it was not this way. So nanner nanner.
 

Covert Rain

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And I read multiple reports plus one and heard it reported on the radio, TV and the high speeds sports wire that it was not this way. So nanner nanner.
Brian Windhorst on ESPN's Get Up. "To trade their two really good young wing players in Mikal Bridges and Cam Johnson, in addition to the four first round picks. That was a hard no from the Suns last year. That's why it didn't get off the ground.
 

Phrazbit

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Yes they did. One led to the other. It's not like they had to which is the point.

No, one didn't lead to another.

We met the demand the Nets made in the Summer, we didn't make some new deal in the face of the Nets new reality with Kyrie already out the door and Durant likely never playing again.
 

Covert Rain

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No, one didn't lead to another.

We met the demand the Nets made in the Summer, we didn't make some new deal in the face of the Nets new reality with Kyrie already out the door and Durant likely never playing again.
If Kyrie would have stayed the KD deal doesn't happen at the trade deadline. So, yes, when Kyrie was out the door that changed everything.
 

AzStevenCal

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If Kyrie would have stayed the KD deal doesn't happen at the trade deadline. So, yes, when Kyrie was out the door that changed everything.
I don't think it necessarily changed the deals being offered but I agree that the Kyrie situation changed the viewpoint of the Nets front office. Once he demanded a max deal and the team declined, the divorce was unavoidable. And IMO it made the Nets motivated sellers because KD's value was only likely to go down.
 

Covert Rain

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I don't think it necessarily changed the deals being offered but I agree that the Kyrie situation changed the viewpoint of the Nets front office. Once he demanded a max deal and the team declined, the divorce was unavoidable. And IMO it made the Nets motivated sellers because KD's value was only likely to go down.
That's all I am saying. One led to the other. Once the Kyrie situation manifested all of the sudden the team direction did as well. Again, it wasn't because the Nets were desperate to move him because they were scarred he was going to get injured again. They still had hopes that Kyrie and Kevin could do something together.
 
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