Suns updates and discussion for the 2022-23 season

OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,320
Reaction score
52,950
The players presently on the roster for next season are:

Booker
Durant
Paul (partially guaranteed)
Ayton
Shamet
Payne (partially guaranteed)
Darius Bazley (RFA)
Wainright (team option)
Saban Lee (RFA)

The Suns will have taxpayer MLE and the biannual exception if they choose to use it.

I was hoping Darius Bazley, age 22, might be better than he looks because the Suns could keep him next season as a restricted free agent.
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,253
Reaction score
3,843
The Suns bench is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be but they are highly dependent in a couple areas. Seems to be the benches biggest weakness by far? Turnovers and FG%. Which is freaking weird because they are the 11th best scoring bench in the NBA and still have one of the best +/- benches in the NBA. That is likely because of 3 pointers and free throws.

This would also explain when the Suns have bad 3 point shooting why the bench looks especially bad. One of their equalizers evaporates. That means if the bench isn't shooting well from the 3 or getting to the line? It's a bad night for our bench.

Suns Bench by the numbers

11th Best scoring
9th in Assists
11th in Steals
6th in Blocks
24th in Turnovers (only 6 other benches turnover more)
28th in FG%

9th 3PT %
10th Rebounding
Free Throws Made 8th
4th in +/-


Are those pre or post trade numbers?
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,550
Reaction score
12,501
Location
Arizona
Most contending teams have a couple of bench players that could arguably be starting for a lot of teams. We don't. Yesterday, we had 3 mediocre bench players in the starting lineup so obviously our bench was even worse than usual but this is almost our new normal when you look at our injuries this season.

We weren't going to have a great bench but we were fairly deep on paper entering the season. Unfortunately the absence of Crowder plus the long term injuries of Payton and Shamet took us down a few notches. Giving away Saric for money after finally getting him healthy and playable just made it worse. Would it be a bad bench if we had everyone healthy? Probably not. But I no longer believe we'll ever spend much time being "healthy" so we have a bad bench IMO.
Most??!? How many cntendors do you think their are? Also, I think there are fewer than you think that could start on a team. Unless you are talking on doormats in the NBA. Starting on the worst team in the NBA is not the same as starting on a contender. I doubt there are that many and most of those teams lose those guys as soon as they are UFAs.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,550
Reaction score
12,501
Location
Arizona
Are those pre or post trade numbers?
Those are for the season up to date. Not much movement since the trade. Keep in mind that's without Shamet, Payne and Cam J for chunks of the season to boot. Now we get Payne and Shamet back plus whoever goes back to the bench when you insert KD. No they are not going to be world beaters with this bunch but it should give us a boost.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,087
Reaction score
14,980
Most??!? How many cntendors do you think their are? Also, I think there are fewer than you think that could start on a team. Unless you are talking on doormats in the NBA. Starting on the worst team in the NBA is not the same as starting on a contender. I doubt there are that many and most of those teams lose those guys as soon as they are UFAs.
No, I was talking about playoff level teams but it applies to most benches. And note I said "arguably could start" and also note I didn't say they could start for every team. For us, CamP would have fit my description but injuries have moved him off the list IMO. Some of us have hope that Okogie will get there but he's not there yet.

Another way to look at what I'm talking about is to ask yourself this; if we could only protect 4 players for an upcoming expansion draft, which of our remaining players would be targets for the 2 expansion clubs?
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,550
Reaction score
12,501
Location
Arizona
No, I was talking about playoff level teams but it applies to most benches. And note I said "arguably could start" and also note I didn't say they could start for every team. For us, CamP would have fit my description but injuries have moved him off the list IMO. Some of us have hope that Okogie will get there but he's not there yet.

Another way to look at what I'm talking about is to ask yourself this; if we could only protect 4 players for an upcoming expansion draft, which of our remaining players would be targets for the 2 expansion clubs?
If they can't start for most playoff teams then I would argue there is very little substance to the point. At the end of the day, we know that most teams in the NBA that win titles have two stars. The rest of the starting 5 can be competent and the rest of the bench simply has to be good enough to hold down the fort. If you don't have the former? Nothing else on the roster matters. So my answer would be outside of KD and Booker everything else is interchangeable.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,087
Reaction score
14,980
If they can't start for most playoff teams then I would argue there is very little substance to the point. At the end of the day, we know that most teams in the NBA that win titles have two stars. The rest of the starting 5 can be competent and the rest of the bench simply has to be good enough to hold down the fort. If you don't have the former? Nothing else on the roster matters. So my answer would be outside of KD and Booker everything else is interchangeable.
I disagree. I think the past several years have shown more often that depth and versatility are almost as important as having superstars or a transcendent talent. I'm having to pass that quote off as my own opinion because I can't recall whether I read it on CBS Sports or heard it from one of the TV guys but it matched my thinking so I'll risk plagiarizing it.

Getting two or 3 stars is by far the harder part so it tends to grab all the attention but you still need to surround them with quality players. Fortunately having two great players will often attract just the kind of role players you need to win it all but unlike many posters here, I'm not at all confident that our two stars will pay dividends that way. But we'll see.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
19,800
Reaction score
10,663
If they can't start for most playoff teams then I would argue there is very little substance to the point. At the end of the day, we know that most teams in the NBA that win titles have two stars. The rest of the starting 5 can be competent and the rest of the bench simply has to be good enough to hold down the fort. If you don't have the former? Nothing else on the roster matters. So my answer would be outside of KD and Booker everything else is interchangeable.

I disagree. Most title winners have a very good 1-5 and a few high quality guys off the bench.

You look at the contenders this year, Bucks, Celtics, Nuggets... their starting 5s don't have any real weakness and they have some real quality on the bench. Same with the title winning Warriors, Bucks, Raptors.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
34,550
Reaction score
12,501
Location
Arizona
I disagree. I think the past several years have shown more often that depth and versatility are almost as important as having superstars or a transcendent talent. I'm having to pass that quote off as my own opinion because I can't recall whether I read it on CBS Sports or heard it from one of the TV guys but it matched my thinking so I'll risk plagiarizing it.

Getting two or 3 stars is by far the harder part so it tends to grab all the attention but you still need to surround them with quality players. Fortunately having two great players will often attract just the kind of role players you need to win it all but unlike many posters here, I'm not at all confident that our two stars will pay dividends that way. But we'll see.
I am not saying don't surround them with quality starters. That's what I mean by competent players. They don't have to be stars 1-5. Nobody has that. If you can get a couple specialists that doing something really really well that's all you need. The bench is there to not lose ground. They don't have to be the best bench in the league. Typically a top 10 bench will do it. If you have 3 quality starters that's less reliance on the last 2 slots and the bench.

I have said it all along. People are going to have a tough time stopping both KD and Book. That is going to leave Ayton as the X-factor. I don't think that is Paul. I think those days are behind him. He is going to get you some easy looks and occasionally hit a shot but his Mr. Cluth days are over. If this team gets quality minutes from KD, Book and Ayton? The are going to be tough to beat.
 

clyde2tw

All Star
Joined
Jan 27, 2023
Posts
538
Reaction score
546
Location
abroad
I have said it all along. People are going to have a tough time stopping both KD and Book. That is going to leave Ayton as the X-factor. I don't think that is Paul. I think those days are behind him. He is going to get you some easy looks and occasionally hit a shot but his Mr. Cluth days are over. If this team gets quality minutes from KD, Book and Ayton? The are going to be tough to beat.
Agree on the Paul part. The main issue with the team under Monty has been that the offense with Paul p&r or Book 1-on-1 in crunch time is easily defended by good teams. Even great teams like MJ's Bulls had plays to get the Kerrs of the world open catch-n-shoot shots, the Suns need install more plays. Paul should take on more of a spot-up shooter role, instead of being the ball handling clutch playmaker. Book should use more screens to make life both for himself and the team easier. With KD, everything becomes simpler but we still need to have more variations in our playbook to make us less predictable.
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,253
Reaction score
3,843
Agree on the Paul part. The main issue with the team under Monty has been that the offense with Paul p&r or Book 1-on-1 in crunch time is easily defended by good teams. Even great teams like MJ's Bulls had plays to get the Kerrs of the world open catch-n-shoot shots, the Suns need install more plays. Paul should take on more of a spot-up shooter role, instead of being the ball handling clutch playmaker. Book should use more screens to make life both for himself and the team easier. With KD, everything becomes simpler but we still need to have more variations in our playbook to make us less predictable.

We’ve all said this. Monty just runs the same sets in crunch time.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,320
Reaction score
52,950
I was hoping the Suns might consider a move like this awhile back.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,253
Reaction score
3,843
We are missing that guy..

Oubre
Crowder
McGee

Instead this year we added Ross, clueless on D. Baz just not good in general.

Can anyone say Cousins lol
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,320
Reaction score
52,950
We are missing that guy..

Oubre
Crowder
McGee

Instead this year we added Ross, clueless on D. Baz just not good in general.

Can anyone say Cousins lol

Too bad the Suns never replaced Crowder in a timely fashion. They would have a lot more wins under their belt even if they traded for Durant.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,087
Reaction score
14,980
Too bad the Suns never replaced Crowder in a timely fashion. They would have a lot more wins under their belt even if they traded for Durant.
I believe Crowder was always intended to be part of the Durant trade until Ishbia overruled JJ and added Bridges to the mix. But with all the injuries we had this season, I doubt Jae would have added more than a few to the win column.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,320
Reaction score
52,950
I believe Crowder was always intended to be part of the Durant trade until Ishbia overruled JJ and added Bridges to the mix. But with all the injuries we had this season, I doubt Jae would have added more than a few to the win column.

If the Suns had replaced Crowder with a rotation power forward, a few more wins would be looking pretty good right now.

Keeping Crowder would have helped as well.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,320
Reaction score
52,950
Or replaced his salary with Dario and bribed him to stay with a 2-year extension.

In retrospect, if I'm reading this correctly, giving Crowder a 2-year extension seems like a good move.

The Jae Crowder situation was severely bungled.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,087
Reaction score
14,980
In retrospect, if I'm reading this correctly, giving Crowder a 2-year extension seems like a good move.

The Jae Crowder situation was severely bungled.
Yes it was and our Coach and previous owner were likely big contributors to the way it was handled. Whether Monty and Jae clashed directly or it was simply a Jae tantrum over Monty deciding to play CamJ in front of him, it's likely one or the other caused the rift.

But I think it's safe to say that Sarver was the one unwilling to give Jae a nice extention if we were going to play Cam in front of him. And IMO, it was JJ who chose to hang onto him with the hopes of using him in the Durant trade.
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
24,546
Reaction score
16,861
Location
The Giant Toaster
In retrospect, if I'm reading this correctly, giving Crowder a 2-year extension seems like a good move.

The Jae Crowder situation was severely bungled.
I was never the biggest Crowder guy and him leaving the team wasn’t a huge deal for me but given the blockbuster trade I’ve changed my tune. That one’s on JJ and Monty.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,320
Reaction score
52,950
The KD trade took all our forwards

That's it in a nutshell and the rest of the league knows it as well. That's why opponents keep driving the ball to the basket.
 
OP
OP
Mainstreet

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
113,320
Reaction score
52,950
Yes it was and our Coach and previous owner were likely big contributors to the way it was handled. Whether Monty and Jae clashed directly or it was simply a Jae tantrum over Monty deciding to play CamJ in front of him, it's likely one or the other caused the rift.

But I think it's safe to say that Sarver was the one unwilling to give Jae a nice extention if we were going to play Cam in front of him. And IMO, it was JJ who chose to hang onto him with the hopes of using him in the Durant trade.

I guess if we include Cam Johnson not being extended as well, it's easier for me to get there.

It would have been cheaper to pay Crowder though.
 

Raindog

I didn't come here to be liked!
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Posts
4,866
Reaction score
5,650
Honestly, I wonder if ownership had not changed during the season, if JJ would have just let Crowder rot at home for the rest of the year. The whole thing seemed like it simply devolved into a pissing match between JJ/Monty and Crowder.

Which definitely doesn't speak well for our front office. Whether or not Crowder merited being treated like a child because he behaved like one, the GM's (and coach's) primary focus has to be the success of the team... not outdueling your player in a match of egos.

Crowder was still an asset that could/should have been used to get another asset to improve the team's chances of winning. Instead, it almost seemed like JJ/Monty might have been opting to be punitive to Crowder even if it really harmed their own team in the process.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
539,172
Posts
5,284,818
Members
6,280
Latest member
alaskabustergreen
Top